Expansion Proposals for a Truly National AFL

[Tonatopia]

NoobPie 3rd Grade Maggy
Prospective Teams have been amended.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

I'm convinced this is a very well done troll, but if it isn't:

The simple reason why it won't work is in some of the cities proposed, even if every single person in those cities attended games that they currently do at any level of footy, that still wouldn't be big enough crowds for the flights alone between some of these smaller towns. Mildura v Bunbury should be a hoot.

 

[Heathen]

OP has been into Willie Rioli's stash.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

Maybe promotion-relegation could have been done back in 1987, but the VFL needed Brisbane and West Coast licence money to keep Collingwood afloat. It would have had to be the VFL, WAFL and SANFL clubs (good luck getting the SANFL or WAFC to agree to that).

Almost since the league started looking at being fully professional we have had salary caps and a draft. Australians have got used to the egalitarian nature of the salary cap, ensuring it isn't just a few big money teams with all the titles. A shift to open market, no hope for most teams, would not be well received outside of a few West Coast and Collingwood fans who could reasonably expect to play most grand finals in perpetuity.

Promotion-relegation may still be possible, but would require a drastic rethink of how salary caps (and contracts) work, and probably axing the draft (personally, I'd like the draft abolished anyway).
It is very difficult to see teams in the second tier and below getting much support. The AFL has swamped every other level of the game, even as it stands the second tier (outside of SA to an extent) is irreversibly damaged goods. And the second tier of every sport is much the same, Australians just don't follow anything outside the (regularly available) top flight.

 

[Tonatopia]

I'm convinced this is a very well done troll, but if it isn't:

The simple reason why it won't work is in some of the cities proposed, even if every single person in those cities attended games that they currently do at any level of footy, that still wouldn't be big enough crowds for the flights alone between some of these smaller towns. Mildura v Bunbury should be a hoot.

On bulk payment.
Mildura to Adelaide by bus - $100 return
Adelaide to Perth - $500 return
Perth to Bunbury by Coach - $100 return
Hotel for 2 nights - $200
Lets say $1000 each

22 players + 10 staff = 32

$32k for logistics
Aprox. $70k wages
Total spend about $100k

The question is, what would the broadcast rights for the Division 3 season be worth?

In saying that, Mildura is just an example of a team, as is Bunbury. But gee, Bunbury/ Margaret River is a growing region, with about 200k people, and footy strong.

 

[Tonatopia]

Maybe promotion-relegation could have been done back in 1987, but the VFL needed Brisbane and West Coast licence money to keep Collingwood afloat. It would have had to be the VFL, WAFL and SANFL clubs (good luck getting the SANFL or WAFC to agree to that).

Almost since the league started looking at being fully professional we have had salary caps and a draft. Australians have got used to the egalitarian nature of the salary cap, ensuring it isn't just a few big money teams with all the titles. A shift to open market, no hope for most teams, would not be well received outside of a few West Coast and Collingwood fans who could reasonably expect to play most grand finals in perpetuity.

Promotion-relegation may still be possible, but would require a drastic rethink of how salary caps (and contracts) work, and probably axing the draft (personally, I'd like the draft abolished anyway).
It is very difficult to see teams in the second tier and below getting much support. The AFL has swamped every other level of the game, even as it stands the second tier (outside of SA to an extent) is irreversibly damaged goods. And the second tier of every sport is much the same, Australians just don't follow anything outside the (regularly available) top flight.

When was the salary cap introduced in the VFL?

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

When was the salary cap introduced in the VFL?

I would need to check, fairly sure it was in place by the late 1980s.

edit: 1987

 

[Tonatopia]

I would need to check, fairly sure it was in place by the late 1980s.

edit: 1987

So how did Hawthorn and North Melbourne win premierships?

I think people have been conditioned to think that money is the only factor which determines success, but especially in footy, just like Hardwick has demonstrated, success is achieved with a blue collar attitude + a star or two.

But who ever said having rich powerhouse clubs is bad for football? Hate for other clubs is as powerful as love for your own.
And non-success does not mean death. Look at the Saints and Demons, even after 6 decades of drought they are still strong and passionate.

But the greatest thing about the Divisional structure, is that it will save the North Melbourne footy club. If we continue on this fixed license 'power club' format, then the kangaroos will meet the same fate as South Melbourne and Fitzroy. We need to learn from the past and take note for the future. We need a different trajectory rather than this regulated and cold, fixed license and draft meat market system.

 

[hairy biker]

 

[3rd Grade Maggy]

I'm convinced this is a very well done troll, but if it isn't:

The simple reason why it won't work is in some of the cities proposed, even if every single person in those cities attended games that they currently do at any level of footy, that still wouldn't be big enough crowds for the flights alone between some of these smaller towns. Mildura v Bunbury should be a hoot.

If it is then it's exceptionally well done.

 

[matthew_s]

If it is then it's exceptionally well done.

it really isn’t.

 

[Tonatopia]

it really isn’t.

By the way, this is the recently built Lavington Stadium in Albury, which has a capacity of 15,000. If only GWS or the Suns could get a crowd that big.
Albury/Wodonga Region was slated as the national capital prior to Canberra with a current population of 100k and growing.

But eh, why should they be able to represent themselves in the national league? The National game is only for city folk and TV viewership!

 

[LordLucifer]

The Divisional Order represents the expected strength and viability of each of the teams, and please note, it is just an example. Additional teams in the future could enter the league, and/or teams could drop out if not viable;
Going forward, major cities like Townsville, Newcastle and even a privateer from Los Angeles, or Auckland may enter the fray at Div3 level.
nb. I have not included SANFL or WAFL teams, as those leagues are operating well, however, if a Glenelg or Subiaco can demonstrate future sustainability as a standalone, then they are welcome to enter, based on 51% consensus from participating clubs.

Example of the 3 Division National League, below;

DIV 1.

Geelong Cats

Richmond Tigers

Collingwood Magpies

West Coast Eagles

Essendon Bombers

Adelaide Crows

Carlton Blues

Sydney Swans

Melbourne Demons

St Kilda Saints

Western Bulldogs

Port Adelaide Power

Hawthorn Hawks

Fremantle Dockers

Brisbane Lions

Perth

Hobart

North Tasmania

DIV 2.

North Melb Kangaroos

Canberra

Cairns

Bendigo

Ballarat

Albury Wodonga

Darwin

GWS Giants

Gold Coast Suns

Bunbury/Margaret River

Mildura

Shepparton

Werribee Tigers

Southport Sharks

Alice Springs

Sunshine Coast - Brisbane Reserves

DIV 3.

Port Melbourne

Aspley Hornets

Frankston Dolphins - Hawthorn Reserves

Gippsland Power - Melbourne Reserves

Wagga Wagga - GWS Reserves

Warrnambool - Geelong Reserves

Central Coast - Sydney Reserves

Northern Rivers

Peel Thunder

Horsham - Bulldogs Reserves

Williamstown Seagulls - Nth Melb Reserves

Sandringham Zebras - StKilda Reserves

Richmond Reserves

Collingwood Reserves

Essendon Reserves

Carlton Reserves

- Two Clubs to be promoted and/or relegated from each division.
- No Draft, Players will choose who they wish to play for.
- No Salary Cap
- Unlimited List Sizes. Each clubs decides how many players are to sit on their list depending on their resources
- Richer clubs may choose to field a stand alone reserves sides, but there is no rules on reserves players and who they play for.
- There should be no AFL handouts. All clubs are responsible for their own revenue and welfare.
- The laws of the game should be enshrined in a national trust, only to be amended by 75% consensus of club presidents.
- Season Fixture, and broadcast right to be negotiated via the clubs, broadcasters and ground representatives, based on 51% consensus of clubs (per division). This will create a natural free market equalization via consensus, ie, powerful clubs would have to 'compensate' poorer clubs for prime time games. I have a detailed proposal on how this works.
- Going forward, I will detail a plan for broadcast rights, and fixture/scheduling. It is based on direct negotiation and majority consensus.
- The AFL administrators should be administrators ONLY! Not engineers of the game. The game belongs to us, and should evolve organically.

The model proposed, is similar to the EPL model, opposed to the USA fixed license model. EPL is based on free market principals, while the NFL is regulated and controlled. History tells us, that the free market is always more dynamic and sustainable and intensely passionate.
If we had adopted a Divisional Structure from the outset, then teams like Fitzroy and South Melbourne would still be playing, albeit in Div 2. And a divisional structure almost guarantees the future of North Melbourne FC.

What do you think?

 

[netslave]

Just had to post in this epic thread.
It's gotta be April 1st or school holidays right?
Oh, it's not...
Fair play to the OP for their passion and effort though.
I think the excitement of being 2nd on the ladder may be getting to them.

 

[Tonatopia]

I’m all for the eventual inclusions of Darwin, Hobart, Canberra, Cairns, Sunshine Coast, Newcastle & Wollongong. Not sure who the last one could be to even out the comp.

Is there much AFL participation in Wollongong?
I suppose footy is played all the way down to Merimbula.
Do they have a strong league on the coast there?

 

[NoobPie]

Is there much AFL participation in Wollongong?

Not a great deal I suspect but surely that all changes when the Wollongong Wombats are challenging to enter division 3

I suppose footy is played all the way down to Merimbula.
Do they have a strong league on the coast there?

Yep, the Merimbula diggers are currently bottom of the Sapphire Coast division 1 but surely have aspirations to play on the national stage.

Ladder for Merimbula RSL Division 1 Men's

Ladder for Merimbula RSL Division 1 Men's in the Sapphire Coast AFL. Powered by GameDay

websites.sportstg.com

Robbo, who plays on a half back flank in the 2s, is getting his private pilot licence soon which could save on travel costs.

They deserve to be on the national stage and I hope you aren't arrogant enough to suggest they can't?

Anyway, just imagine this

 

[3rd Grade Maggy]

Good old Berimbool. Not sure I like that Reference Design. I think there needs to be some scope for local flavour to these 15k seaters - how cool would it be if they kept 'ute hill' so you could still back up the old Triton and have a few cans from the couch you've tied onto the tray? Imagine 500 utes set up there - it would be really intimidating. Obviously with OHS you'd need designated parking spaces and to get enough cars it might need to be a three story structure but it would be awesome.

Bit worried they'd draw too much of an audience from the Orbost Awesomes but.

 

[NoobPie]

Good old Berimbool. Not sure I like that Reference Design. I think there needs to be some scope for local flavour to these 15k seaters - how cool would it be if they kept 'ute hill' so you could still back up the old Triton and have a few cans from the couch you've tied onto the tray? Imagine 500 utes set up there - it would be really intimidating. Obviously with OHS you'd need designated parking spaces and to get enough cars it might need to be a three story structure but it would be awesome.

Bit worried they'd draw too much of an audience from the Orbost Awesomes but.

Welcome to the platinum club membership category

 

[Rob]

I'm convinced this is a very well done troll, but if it isn't:

The simple reason why it won't work is in some of the cities proposed, even if every single person in those cities attended games that they currently do at any level of footy, that still wouldn't be big enough crowds for the flights alone between some of these smaller towns. Mildura v Bunbury should be a hoot.

Harsh on Bunbury, it's roughly the size of Ballarat. And they get AFL games now. The only reason Bunbury don't is because Perth isn't grossly overrepresented in the AFL.

 

[LordLucifer]

I’m all for the eventual inclusions of Darwin, Hobart, Canberra, Cairns, Sunshine Coast, Newcastle & Wollongong. Not sure who the last one could be to even out the comp.

Canberra
Illawarra
3rd Sydney based team
Central Coast
2nd Brisbane based team
Sunshine Coast
Tassie

3 Melb-based clubs relocate so it is a 22-team competition playing a 21 round season with no byes.

 

[Roylion]

But the greatest thing about the Divisional structure, is that it will save the North Melbourne footy club.

No it won't. Divisional structures only work for amateur competitions such as the VAFA.

If we continue on this fixed license 'power club' format, then the kangaroos will meet the same fate as South Melbourne and Fitzroy.

No they won't. As long as the AFL continues a funding model to promote competitive equity regardless of their revenue-raising abilities.

The funding model sees every club funded to pay 100% of the salary cap, and aims to have clubs spend a relatively similar amount off-field on football-related matters.

We need a different trajectory rather than this regulated and cold, fixed license and draft meat market system.

I disagree.

 

[Tonatopia]

No they won't. As long as the AFL continues a funding model to promote competitive equity regardless of their revenue-raising abilities.

The funding model sees every club funded to pay 100% of the salary cap, and aims to have clubs spend a relatively similar amount off-field on football-related matters.

Let me give you the mail. A system based on welfare is not sustainable. It breeds weakness.

 

[Roylion]

Let me give you the mail. A system based on welfare is not sustainable. It breeds weakness.

Here’s my mail. No it’s doesn’t.

 

[3rd Grade Maggy]

Let me give you the mail. A system based on welfare is not sustainable. It breeds weakness.

You know what's weak - voting to merge with another team because it all got too hard.

 

[Tonatopia]

Clubs should be allowed to bottom out fully, without the threat of death.
Only a Divisional system can cater for that.