Expansion Proposals for a Truly National AFL

[Tonatopia]

Sorry, you didnt deliver, so i dont have to.

You just exposed yourself.

 

[The_Wookie]

You just exposed yourself.

Im still waiting for something practical and based in some sort of actual reality to respond to

 

[Tonatopia]

Im still waiting for something practical and based in some sort of actual reality to respond to

You want me to explain why systems based on free market, consensus goverance is more resilient and dynamic than controlled and engineered markets?

You'd probably have to give up your socialist ideals first.

But go back to my simple question.

Simple question.
How does an 20 team competition provide greater equalisation than a 12 team divisional league?

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

You want me to explain why systems based on free market, consensus goverance is more resilient and dynamic than controlled and engineered markets?

Yes please. Have not seen any real world evidence of this.

 

[The_Wookie]

You want me to explain why systems based on free market, consensus goverance is more resilient and dynamic than controlled and engineered markets?

You'd probably have to give up your socialist ideals first.

But go back to my simple question.

How about something that the AFL or Australian Football might actually do some time.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Yes please. Have not seen any real world evidence of this.

No, it's inevitable that CBUS will fund a new Queensland team, BHP will create the Broken Hill Bandits, and Chris Hemsworth will create the LA Dundees for some reason and fund it for tens of million a year. You don't need evidence to know that.

 

[RedV3x]

Open up the league to a 12 team divisional format

Fail at the first hurdle.
12 teams = MAXIMUM of 6 competitive games.
Reality is maximum of 5 competitive games with at least 10 of 12 teams failing.

Simple question.
How does an 20 team competition provide greater equalisation than a 12 team divisional league?

The AFL, NFL and most elite teams have EQUALISATION measures in place.
Promotion and relegation have NO EQUALISATION measures in place.
Promotion and relegation simply rotates the bottom teams through a lower division.

Simple question
When has a promoted team ever made good ? How long did it take ? When has Man U NOT won a title.

 

[Tonatopia]

25k people attended a footy game in Japan, 24k in Toronto and 33k in Vancouver.
While London almost always draws a minimum of 10k. Equal to GWS and GC.

hmmmm

Date	Location	Stadium	Competition	Teams	Attendance
3/11/2012	London, UK	The Oval	AFL Post-season exhibition – AFL European Challenge[11]	Western Bulldogs vs. Port Adelaide	10,000[12]
17/10/2010	Shanghai, China	Jiangwan Stadium	Exhibition match – "Shanghai Showdown"	Melbourne vs. Brisbane Lions[13]	7,100
9/02/2008	Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates	Ghantoot Polo and Racing Club	NAB Cup	Collingwood vs Adelaide[14]	6,102[15]
2/02/2008	Centurion, Gauteng, South Africa	SuperSport Park	AFL pre-season practice	Carlton vs Fremantle	3,500[16] – 5,222[17] (reports vary)
21/10/2006	London, UK	The Oval	AFL post season exhibition	Geelong v. Port Adelaide	12,129
15/1/2006	Los Angeles, USA	Intramural Field, UCLA	AFL pre-season practice	Kangaroos v. Sydney	3,200 (sell-out)
8/10/2005	London, UK	The Oval	AFL post season exhibition	West Coast Eagles v. Fremantle	18,884
11/10/2003	London, UK	The Oval	AFL post season exhibition	Collingwood v. Fremantle	12,847
12/10/2002	London, UK	The Oval	AFL post season exhibition	Richmond v. Essendon	13,000
17/2/2001	Wellington, New Zealand	Westpac Stadium	2001 pre-season cup game – group stage	Brisbane Lions v. Adelaide	7,500
7/10/2000	London, UK	The Oval	AFL post season exhibition	Melbourne v. Adelaide	4,500
29/01/2000	Wellington, New Zealand	Westpac Stadium	Pre-season cup game – group stage Round 1	Western Bulldogs v. Hawthorn	11,666
9/10/1999	London, UK	The Oval	AFL post season exhibition	Essendon v. Hawthorn	12,000+
10/10/1998	London, UK	The Oval	AFL post season exhibition	Western Bulldogs v. St Kilda	12,000
1/03/1998	Wellington, New Zealand	Basin Reserve		Melbourne v. Sydney	7,820
22/02/1998	Cape Town, South Africa	Newlands Cricket Ground		Brisbane v. Fremantle	10,123
12/10/1997	London, UK	The Oval	AFL post season exhibition	West Coast v. Collingwood	14,000
16/10/1994	London, UK	The Oval	AFL post season exhibition	Richmond v. Carlton and Adelaide v West Coast	6,000
13/10/1991	London, UK	The Oval	AFL post season exhibition	West Coast v. Hawthorn	10,000
5/10/1991	Auckland, New Zealand		AFL post season exhibition	Geelong v. St Kilda	8,500
14/10/1990	London, UK	The Oval	AFL post season exhibition	Collingwood v. Essendon	9,000
12/10/1990	Portland, USA	Civic Stadium	AFL post season exhibition	Melbourne v. West Coast	14,787
22/10/1989	London, UK	The Oval	VFL post season exhibition	Melbourne v. Essendon	12,000
14/10/1989	Miami, USA	Joe Robbie Stadium	VFL post season exhibition	Essendon v. Hawthorn	10,069
12/10/1989	Toronto, Canada	Toronto Skydome	VFL post season exhibition	Geelong v. Melbourne	24,639
16/10/1988	Toronto, Ontario, Canada	Varsity Stadium	VFL post season exhibition	Collingwood v. Hawthorn	18,500
9/10/1988	London, UK	The Oval	VFL post season exhibition	Hawthorn v. Carlton	10,000
8/10/1988	Miami, USA	Joe Robbie Stadium	VFL post season exhibition	Collingwood v. Geelong	7,500
25/10/1987	Yokohama, Japan	Yokohama Stadium	VFL post season exhibition	Hawthorn v. Essendon	13,000
18/10/1987	Vancouver, Canada	B.C. Place	VFL post season exhibition	Melbourne v. North Melbourne	7,980
11/10/1987	London, UK	The Oval	VFL post season exhibition	Carlton v. North Melbourne	14,000[18]
9/10/1987	Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada	B.C. Place	VFL post season exhibition	Melbourne v. Sydney	32,789 (record to date)
3/11/1986	Yokohama, Japan	Yokohama Stadium	VFL post season exhibition	Carlton v. Hawthorn	25,000
12/10/1986	London, UK	The Oval	VFL post season exhibition

 

[Aussie in exile]

25k people attended a footy game in Japan, 24k in Toronto and 33k in Vancouver.
While London almost always draws 10k. Equal to GWS and GC.

hmmmm

Date	Location	Stadium	Competition	Teams	Attendance
3/11/2012	London, UK	The Oval	AFL Post-season exhibition – AFL European Challenge[11]	Western Bulldogs vs. Port Adelaide	10,000[12]
17/10/2010	Shanghai, China	Jiangwan Stadium	Exhibition match – "Shanghai Showdown"	Melbourne vs. Brisbane Lions[13]	7,100
9/02/2008	Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates	Ghantoot Polo and Racing Club	NAB Cup	Collingwood vs Adelaide[14]	6,102[15]
2/02/2008	Centurion, Gauteng, South Africa	SuperSport Park	AFL pre-season practice	Carlton vs Fremantle	3,500[16] – 5,222[17] (reports vary)
21/10/2006	London, UK	The Oval	AFL post season exhibition	Geelong v. Port Adelaide	12,129
15/1/2006	Los Angeles, USA	Intramural Field, UCLA	AFL pre-season practice	Kangaroos v. Sydney	3,200 (sell-out)
8/10/2005	London, UK	The Oval	AFL post season exhibition	West Coast Eagles v. Fremantle	18,884
11/10/2003	London, UK	The Oval	AFL post season exhibition	Collingwood v. Fremantle	12,847
12/10/2002	London, UK	The Oval	AFL post season exhibition	Richmond v. Essendon	13,000
17/2/2001	Wellington, New Zealand	Westpac Stadium	2001 pre-season cup game – group stage	Brisbane Lions v. Adelaide	7,500
7/10/2000	London, UK	The Oval	AFL post season exhibition	Melbourne v. Adelaide	4,500
29/01/2000	Wellington, New Zealand	Westpac Stadium	Pre-season cup game – group stage Round 1	Western Bulldogs v. Hawthorn	11,666
9/10/1999	London, UK	The Oval	AFL post season exhibition	Essendon v. Hawthorn	12,000+
10/10/1998	London, UK	The Oval	AFL post season exhibition	Western Bulldogs v. St Kilda	12,000
1/03/1998	Wellington, New Zealand	Basin Reserve		Melbourne v. Sydney	7,820
22/02/1998	Cape Town, South Africa	Newlands Cricket Ground		Brisbane v. Fremantle	10,123
12/10/1997	London, UK	The Oval	AFL post season exhibition	West Coast v. Collingwood	14,000
16/10/1994	London, UK	The Oval	AFL post season exhibition	Richmond v. Carlton and Adelaide v West Coast	6,000
13/10/1991	London, UK	The Oval	AFL post season exhibition	West Coast v. Hawthorn	10,000
5/10/1991	Auckland, New Zealand		AFL post season exhibition	Geelong v. St Kilda	8,500
14/10/1990	London, UK	The Oval	AFL post season exhibition	Collingwood v. Essendon	9,000
12/10/1990	Portland, USA	Civic Stadium	AFL post season exhibition	Melbourne v. West Coast	14,787
22/10/1989	London, UK	The Oval	VFL post season exhibition	Melbourne v. Essendon	12,000
14/10/1989	Miami, USA	Joe Robbie Stadium	VFL post season exhibition	Essendon v. Hawthorn	10,069
12/10/1989	Toronto, Canada	Toronto Skydome	VFL post season exhibition	Geelong v. Melbourne	24,639
16/10/1988	Toronto, Ontario, Canada	Varsity Stadium	VFL post season exhibition	Collingwood v. Hawthorn	18,500
9/10/1988	London, UK	The Oval	VFL post season exhibition	Hawthorn v. Carlton	10,000
8/10/1988	Miami, USA	Joe Robbie Stadium	VFL post season exhibition	Collingwood v. Geelong	7,500
25/10/1987	Yokohama, Japan	Yokohama Stadium	VFL post season exhibition	Hawthorn v. Essendon	13,000
18/10/1987	Vancouver, Canada	B.C. Place	VFL post season exhibition	Melbourne v. North Melbourne	7,980
11/10/1987	London, UK	The Oval	VFL post season exhibition	Carlton v. North Melbourne	14,000[18]
9/10/1987	Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada	B.C. Place	VFL post season exhibition	Melbourne v. Sydney	32,789 (record to date)
3/11/1986	Yokohama, Japan	Yokohama Stadium	VFL post season exhibition	Carlton v. Hawthorn	25,000
12/10/1986	London, UK	The Oval	VFL post season exhibition

Was it free admission?

 

[Tonatopia]

check out the report Im sending to politicians, clubs and media.

thanks Bigfooty for refining my proposal.
I wont stop with this, because I know it is the future for our game. I can see it.

 

[RedV3x]

check out the report Im sending to politicians, clubs and media.

thanks Bigfooty for refining my proposal.
I wont stop with this, because I know it is the future for our game. I can see it.

It doesn't open. Probably a good result.

 

[big_e]

check out the report Im sending to politicians, clubs and media.

Of course you are.

 

[Cubs2Lions]

check out the report Im sending to politicians, clubs and media.

thanks Bigfooty for refining my proposal.
I wont stop with this, because I know it is the future for our game. I can see it.

Well, from all of us on here (if we think the same or different regardless), we wish you all the best with your report/findings on the future model of Australian Rules Football and hopefully we hear from you soon about what the politicians/clubs/media had to say about your findings, if true, cause it seems like you have put a lot of research & effort into to it and hopefully I can have a full read of your findings tonight after my study

 

[Tonatopia]

Well, from all of us on here (if we think the same or different regardless), we wish you all the best with your report/findings on the future model of Australian Rules Football and hopefully we hear from you soon about what the politicians/clubs/media had to say about your findings, if true, cause it seems like you have put a lot of research & effort into to it and hopefully I can have a full read of your findings tonight after my study

Can you open the PDF?

 

[Cubs2Lions]

Can you open the PDF?

Yes, I just downloaded it then with no problems at all.

All the best

 

[Tonatopia]

Yes, I just downloaded it then with no problems at all.

All the best

Thanks mate.

 

[The_Wookie]

Hey guys, sorry to be a pain but I was going to create my own long-term proposal of what a Truly National AFL Competition would look like in the future IMO but I didn't really know if I should post my information/proposal on this thread or just start a new thread in general to clear the air between the proposal on here given the fact I would probably write a lot?

Is it okay if I share it on here or would it be easier to post it somewhere else on a different thread for you guys to read it given this thread already has 38 pages?

Thanks in advance

use this thread

 

[Tonatopia]

Okay, thanks.

Im happy to work with you. What is your proposal?
Is it divisional?

 

[Cubs2Lions]

Is it divisional?

Sort of

 

[Aucklander]

check out the report Im sending to politicians, clubs and media.

thanks Bigfooty for refining my proposal.
I wont stop with this, because I know it is the future for our game. I can see it.

It's a pipedream, but I commend you on the effort you've put in. Well done.

 

[Tonatopia]

(Sorry North Melbourne/St. Kilda/Footscray supporters but you have to relocate interstate for survival of this proposal of mine, I promise I don’t have any hard feelings)

Cold, corporate vision.
Horrible.

 

[Kwality]

Cold, corporate vision.
Horrible.

Here is this weekends TV coverage of the SWFL:

The West Australian Sports Live Streams

Watch live matches and replays from across WA sport, including PSA, WAFL, netball, hockey and more.

thewest.com.au

 

[terrybull]

Ok, thought I might put my hand in to try to make a pro/reg with a clubs in Australia maybe feasible…

Premier League
24 teams (Final 8)
Bottom team play off against Premiers in National League.

National League
24 Teams (Final 8)
Premiers play off against Bottom PL.
Bottom 2 teams play off against Premiers of Div 1 East and South West

Division 1 East
24 teams (Final 8)
VFL, QLD, NSW, ACT and Tasmania
Premiers play off against a bottom team in the National League.
Bottom 2 teams play Premiers of Division 2 North East and South East


Division 1 South West
24 teams (Final 8)
SANFL, WAFL, NT, SA, WA
Premiers play off against a bottom team in the National League
Bottom 2 teams play Premiers of Division 2 South and West

Division 2 North East
24 Teams (Final 8)
QLD, NSW, ACT
Premiers play off against bottom Division 1 East.
2 Bottom Teams play off against a Premier in Division 3

Division 2 South East
24 teams (Final 8)
Victoria and Tasmania
Premiers play off against bottom Division 1 East.
2 Bottom Teams play off against a Premier in Division 3

Division 2 West
24 teams (Final 8)
Western Australia, NT
Premiers play off against bottom Division 1 South West.
2 Bottom Teams play off against a Premier in Division 3

Division 2 South
24 teams (Final 8)
South Australia, NT
Premiers play off against bottom Division 1 South West.
2 Bottom Teams play off against a Premier in Division 3

Division 3
8 different conferences containing up to 24 teams and Final 8 if possible.
Premiers of each conference play off against bottom 2 teams in Division 2.
Bottom 8 teams play off against Division 4 play off Premiers.

Division 4
16 different conferences containing up to 24 teams and Final 8 if possible.
Premiers of each conference play off against each other.
The 8 Playoff Premiers against bottom teams in Division 3
Bottom teams play off against Division 5 play off Premiers.

and so on and so on

To get a Premier League, National, and a Division 1 License. Clubs must prove they are financially sustainable, otherwise they fall back a division or more.

 

[terrybull]

Ok, thought I might put my hand in to try to make a pro/reg with a clubs in Australia maybe feasible…

Premier League
24 teams (Final 8)
Bottom team play off against Premiers in National League.

National League
24 Teams (Final 8)
Premiers play off against Bottom PL.
Bottom 2 teams play off against Premiers of Div 1 East and West

Division 1 East
24 teams (Final 8)
VFL, QLD, NSW, ACT and Tasmania
Premiers play off against a bottom team in the National League.
Bottom 2 teams play Premiers of Division 2 North East and South East


Division 1 West
24 teams (Final 8)
SANFL, WAFL, SA, WA
Premiers play off against a bottom team in the National League
Bottom 2 teams play Premiers of Division 2 Western and Southern.

Division 2 North East
24 Teams (Final 8)
QLD, NSW, ACT
Premiers play off against bottom Division 1 East.
2 Bottom Teams play off against a Premier in Division 3

Division 2 South East
24 teams (Final 8)
Victoria and Tasmania
Premiers play off against bottom Division 1 East.
2 Bottom Teams play off against a Premier in Division 3

Division 2 Western
24 teams (Final 8)
Western Australia
Premiers play off against bottom Division 1 West.
2 Bottom Teams play off against a Premier in Division 3

Division 2 Southern
24 teams (Final 8)
South Australia
Premiers play off against bottom Division 1 West.
2 Bottom Teams play off against a Premier in Division 3

Division 3
8 different conferences containing up to 24 teams and Final 8 if possible.
Premiers of each conference play off against bottom 2 teams in Division 2.
Bottom 8 teams play off against Division 4 play off Premiers.

Division 4
16 different conferences containing up to 24 teams and Final 8 if possible.
Premiers of each conference play off against each other.
The 8 Playoff Premiers against bottom teams in Division 3
Bottom teams play off against Division 5 play off Premiers.

and so on and so on

To get a Premier League, National, and a Division 1 License. Clubs must prove they are financially sustainable, otherwise they fall back a division or more.

The reason for play-offs is you don’t want a good team going out and be replaced by a weaker team. To advance you really need to earn it.

The conferences in the lower divisions mean that teams don’t have to travel so much an far lower down divisions would basically be your local comps.

If there is no salary cap then clubs still can’t over spend on players as they have to pay the costs in the division they are playing (Premier most expensive), while also prove they are financially viable to play there.

 

[Tonatopia]

24 teams?
So how many games does each team play per season?
Seems strange.