Prediction Proposed Pies Rd 1 team, 2019

(Log in to remove this ad.)

jackcass

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Oct 8, 2007
Posts
15,286
Likes
12,893
Location
Bendigo
AFL Club
Collingwood
#78
Phillips is stapled into the best 22. It’s not even a discussion point.
While it's a long way out from R1 and there'll be other players who stake a claim during preseason, I'm not as convinced Phillips is such a lock in the 22. Look at the team named in the OP

B: Brayden Maynard, Lynden Dunn, Tom Langdon
HB: Jeremy Howe, Darcy Moore, Jack Crisp
C: Steele Sidebottom, Scott Pendlebury, Taylor Adams
HF: Will Hoskin-Elliott, Brody Mihocek, Jaidyn Stephenson
F: Jordan De Goey, Mason Cox, Jamie Elliott
Foll: Brodie Grundy, Dayne Beams, Adam Treloar
I/C: Travis Varcoe, Daniel Wells, Brayden Sier, Josh Thomas

If anything, it's a 7th defensive option short. That role will likely go to Appleby, IQ, Aish, T Brown or Murphy. At a stretch say Mayne. So you need to find a spot on the bench for 1 of them. Likely at the expense of 1 of the small forwards rather than a forward/mid rotation type. For the sake of the discussion lets say Wells not ready to assume a midfield role R1 so swap him for Appleby. Phillips isn't even in the discussion, especially with the 6-6-6 configurations.

Your starting midfield is Grundy, Pendles, Adams, Sidey, Beams, and Treloar. I can't see Phillips pushing any of them out of the side.

Your starting small forwards are WHE, Stephenson, and Elliott. He's not pushing any of them out of the side either.

That means he's competing with Varcoe, Sier or Thomas for a spot on the bench. I'm sure people could make an equally compelling case for any of the 4 but 1 of them will have to miss. Sier's the only other genuine mid so I can't see him going. Varcoe is important for that forward pressure. Thomas can genuinely play as a small forward and still offers a strong midfield rotation. Phillips is best suited to a wing with only limited flexibility. Team balance and versatility, Phillips remains among the emergencies for mine.

I reckon the Mihocek v Reid and the Dunn v Roughead discussions will give selectors more anguish.
 

jackcass

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Oct 8, 2007
Posts
15,286
Likes
12,893
Location
Bendigo
AFL Club
Collingwood
#79
Quite a few people leaving out Mayne. He was just about our best in the GF so I can't see this happening.
He'll be there about but if you're hypothesizing about best R1 22's with a full squad fit and available, he's likely going to slip to the bench with much of his positive GF work getting back into defence covered by Howe and Langdon's release from more restrictive KPD/lockdown type roles with the returns of Dunn and Moore.

Unlikely we'll have 46 players R1 senior ready so he'll likely get his opportunity and will be tough to dislodge.
 
Last edited:

Prochard123

Premiership Player
Joined
Jul 28, 2014
Posts
4,253
Likes
2,498
AFL Club
Collingwood
#80
I dig what you’re trying to say about rewarding those who are durable and consistent and have come through VFL such as Mayne and Varcoe but Elliott is simply too good to not play if he’s fit. He’s not coming from a long way back - it’s December and he’s already training very strongly.
Fair enough I suppose but I think a lot of us are still clinging onto memories of the past.

In 2018, the reason for our ascension up the ladder imo is mainly due to having a functional forward line with everyone but Cox applying immense tackling pressure inside 50.

This is becoming more and more important nowadays, with Daniel Menzel, someone who’s very similar to Jamie elliot in terms of talent, durability and style if you think about it, being overlooked by every AFL team except for Sydney.

Now after another few seasons of injury, the talented but selfish Elliot we saw will have his deficiencies exacerbated further with impaired running ability.

Look I’d be happy to experiment with the likes of Elliot in the earlier rounds, but with the way our teams lineup is shaping up, if finals are played tomorrow there is no way I’d play Elliot ahead of Mayne/Varcoe or anyone else listed in my team.
 

TheGreatGrundy

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jul 21, 2008
Posts
11,588
Likes
9,201
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Collingwood
#81
Fair enough I suppose but I think a lot of us are still clinging onto memories of the past.

In 2018, the reason for our ascension up the ladder imo is mainly due to having a functional forward line with everyone but Cox applying immense tackling pressure inside 50.

This is becoming more and more important nowadays, with Daniel Menzel, someone who’s very similar to Jamie elliot in terms of talent, durability and style if you think about it, being overlooked by every AFL team except for Sydney.

Now after another few seasons of injury, the talented but selfish Elliot we saw will have his deficiencies exacerbated further with impaired running ability.

Look I’d be happy to experiment with the likes of Elliot in the earlier rounds, but with the way our teams lineup is shaping up, if finals are played tomorrow there is no way I’d play Elliot ahead of Mayne/Varcoe or anyone else listed in my team.
Is Elliott selfish? Is he going to have impaired running ability? Granted he seemed to have lost much of his freakish aerial ability when he last played, but I am not so sure about his loss of running ability or forward line pressure. Not saying you are wrong - rather suggesting that I don't know.

Having said that, I kind of agree with your point about clinging to the past. I see posters doing it with Wells despite the fact that he is a year older and there is no suggestion that he is going to turn it on this year anymore than he did last year or the year before. How quickly have posters forgotten Mayne's finals performances, including his game against McGovern in our first final and his other finals' games? Sure in a perfect world, he may seem like the weakest link, but I am one of those posters who have the highest respect for players who perform well in finals and Mayne was fantastic in our finals' games. Varcoe, playing under the extremist of personal pressure, also set us alight in one or two final's games and oozes class. He is still a lot younger and far more durable than Wells.

The problem with early best 22's is that they are largely based on a naive belief that players unable to get it together physically and mentally the year before are going to shed their chronic problems like a caterpillar its cocoon, spread their wings in a fanfare of colour and splendour, and metamorphise into something they haven't been able to be for years. With any luck they might achieve the lofty heights of their former glory. In the meantime, let's show support too for the also-rans who almost helped us achieve a premiership last year.
 
Joined
Nov 16, 2014
Posts
1,924
Likes
2,553
AFL Club
Collingwood
#82
While it's a long way out from R1 and there'll be other players who stake a claim during preseason, I'm not as convinced Phillips is such a lock in the 22. Look at the team named in the OP

B: Brayden Maynard, Lynden Dunn, Tom Langdon
HB: Jeremy Howe, Darcy Moore, Jack Crisp
C: Steele Sidebottom, Scott Pendlebury, Taylor Adams
HF: Will Hoskin-Elliott, Brody Mihocek, Jaidyn Stephenson
F: Jordan De Goey, Mason Cox, Jamie Elliott
Foll: Brodie Grundy, Dayne Beams, Adam Treloar
I/C: Travis Varcoe, Daniel Wells, Brayden Sier, Josh Thomas

If anything, it's a 7th defensive option short. That role will likely go to Appleby, IQ, Aish, T Brown or Murphy. At a stretch say Mayne. So you need to find a spot on the bench for 1 of them. Likely at the expense of 1 of the small forwards rather than a forward/mid rotation type. For the sake of the discussion lets say Wells not ready to assume a midfield role R1 so swap him for Appleby. Phillips isn't even in the discussion, especially with the 6-6-6 configurations.

Your starting midfield is Grundy, Pendles, Adams, Sidey, Beams, and Treloar. I can't see Phillips pushing any of them out of the side.

Your starting small forwards are WHE, Stephenson, and Elliott. He's not pushing any of them out of the side either.

That means he's competing with Varcoe, Sier or Thomas for a spot on the bench. I'm sure people could make an equally compelling case for any of the 4 but 1 of them will have to miss. Sier's the only other genuine mid so I can't see him going. Varcoe is important for that forward pressure. Thomas can genuinely play as a small forward and still offers a strong midfield rotation. Phillips is best suited to a wing with only limited flexibility. Team balance and versatility, Phillips remains among the emergencies for mine.

I reckon the Mihocek v Reid and the Dunn v Roughead discussions will give selectors more anguish.
Agree with your 22 but Phillips in for Wells. Wells is done as a 1st choice senior player - not what he was, and can't run out games due to body/age
 

jackcass

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Oct 8, 2007
Posts
15,286
Likes
12,893
Location
Bendigo
AFL Club
Collingwood
#83
Agree with your 22 but Phillips in for Wells. Wells is done as a 1st choice senior player - not what he was, and can't run out games due to body/age
Wasn't my 22, it was the OP's, but either way I don't agree on the Wells view many put forward. He's still easily among the most skilled players on our list and if he's fit he'll likely play. I'd imagine at HF more often than not so not really where Phillips is likely to usurp him.
 

TheGreatGrundy

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jul 21, 2008
Posts
11,588
Likes
9,201
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Collingwood
#84
Wasn't my 22, it was the OP's, but either way I don't agree on the Wells view many put forward. He's still easily among the most skilled players on our list and if he's fit he'll likely play. I'd imagine at HF more often than not so not really where Phillips is likely to usurp him.
No disagreement that if he is fit he will likely play. Fitness is the problematic element in the equation.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Saintly Viewed

Premium Platinum
Joined
Aug 10, 2015
Posts
40,538
Likes
31,382
AFL Club
Collingwood
#87
Should have just about a full pre-season so I expect him to be fit. Just don't know why so many want him to break down.
That’s the part I’ve never quite understood.

I’d rather he plays and slays them (so we are a better team and have more chance of winning) than be on a drive to say: look at me, I told you Wells was a bust.

Collingwood 1st
Ego last
That’s my preferred way of going.
 

jackcass

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Oct 8, 2007
Posts
15,286
Likes
12,893
Location
Bendigo
AFL Club
Collingwood
#88
The last thing I want is for him to break down! He has only just started running hasn't he?
Wasn't necessarily suggesting you, but there seems to be an overwhelming dismissal of him due to injury rather than any hope for the best possible outcome.

Been running since at least the return of the 1st - 4th year players.
 

TheGreatGrundy

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jul 21, 2008
Posts
11,588
Likes
9,201
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Collingwood
#89
Wasn't necessarily suggesting you, but there seems to be an overwhelming dismissal of him due to injury rather than any hope for the best possible outcome.

Been running since at least the return of the 1st - 4th year players.
You are probably right about many posters anticipating that injury is going to disrupt or derail his season. This is different from actively hoping that he will break down just so you can say 'I told you so!' I must confess I am probably among the posters who seriously doubt he will string more than a few games together, but that doesn't stop me hoping otherwise.
 

Saintly Viewed

Premium Platinum
Joined
Aug 10, 2015
Posts
40,538
Likes
31,382
AFL Club
Collingwood
#90
You are probably right about many posters anticipating that injury is going to disrupt or derail his season. This is different from actively hoping that he will break down just so you can say 'I told you so!' I must confess I am probably among the posters who seriously doubt he will string more than a few games together, but that doesn't stop me hoping otherwise.
I think there is quite a bit of ugly dismissal of him; or simply it comes across like people waiting with glee for him to be injured etc.

Human nature can be a bit ugly sometimes.
 

TheGreatGrundy

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jul 21, 2008
Posts
11,588
Likes
9,201
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Collingwood
#91
I think there is quite a bit of ugly dismissal of him; or simply it comes across like people waiting with glee for him to be injured etc.

Human nature can be a bit ugly sometimes.
The problem is that he has been riddled with injury since we picked him up and has never looked likely to impact a season. He will be 34 next year so hardly has time on his side. The posters to whom you are referring are surely those who spread rumours about alleged drinking and food binges. I would imagine that any genuine supporter would be hoping for the best for him.
 

Saintly Viewed

Premium Platinum
Joined
Aug 10, 2015
Posts
40,538
Likes
31,382
AFL Club
Collingwood
#92
The problem is that he has been riddled with injury since we picked him up and has never looked likely to impact a season. He will be 34 next year so hardly has time on his side. The posters to whom you are referring are surely those who spread rumours about alleged drinking and food binges. I would imagine that any genuine supporter would be hoping for the best for him.
Love your thinking there.

Go Pies
 
Joined
Aug 17, 2018
Posts
227
Likes
509
AFL Club
Collingwood
Thread starter #93
Yes it is. By mid season he will lament in the seconds, A hand full of players will be way ahead of him

His lack of pace and inability to kick with his right will be exposed as the young & the old start to gain form.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
His lack of pace? He's not Stephenson quick over 200m, but come the last 5 mins of each quarter and through 4Q he's still running on top of the ground when others are not, meaning his relative lack of speed is negated/overcome.
 
Joined
May 25, 2006
Posts
51,276
Likes
25,515
Location
Beach
AFL Club
Collingwood
#94
Assuming Dunn isnt fit yet and Wells and Elliott are. In reality perhaps even fully fit only one of Ellliot and Wellls will be ris

B: Brayden Maynard, Jordan Roughead, Tom Langdon
HB: Jeremy Howe, Darcy Moore, Jack Crisp
C: Steele Sidebottom, Scott Pendlebury, Taylor Adams
HF: Will Hoskin-Elliott, Brody Mihocek, Jaidyn Stephenson
F: Jordan De Goey, Mason Cox, Jamie Elliott
Foll: Brodie Grundy, Dayne Beams, Adam Treloar
I/C: TDaniel Wells, Brayden Sier, Josh Thomas, Tom Phillips

E: Varcoe Mayne Murphy Brown
 

jackcass

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Oct 8, 2007
Posts
15,286
Likes
12,893
Location
Bendigo
AFL Club
Collingwood
#95
His lack of pace? He's not Stephenson quick over 200m, but come the last 5 mins of each quarter and through 4Q he's still running on top of the ground when others are not, meaning his relative lack of speed is negated/overcome.
Love the fact he's an endurance beast but I think people over-sell this aspect. It's not like all the opposition players are out on their knees, or that their pace diminishes below that of Phillips.
 
Top Bottom