Opinion Proud of the Past?? Confident of the Future!

Butters Made Me Do It

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#26
Why is this club afraid of taking talls early in the draft?
Because of the backfire potential.

Take this year. We love Rozee, but if Ben King becomes a decent standard AFL key forward, did we pick wrong?

At this precise moment, Todd Marshall ahead of Jarrod Berry looks dubious too. And if Marshall doesn’t come up...
 

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Magus

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#27
Because of the backfire potential.

Take this year. We love Rozee, but if Ben King becomes a decent standard AFL key forward, did we pick wrong?

At this precise moment, Todd Marshall ahead of Jarrod Berry looks dubious too. And if Marshall doesn’t come up...
It looks to me like we don't have any faith in our ability to develop talls.

If they don't work out then it's a case of oh well, they were a late pick, no big loss. As a result we've ended up with players with a slim chance of "making it" and guys from other clubs that have question marks around them.

Its no wonder we haven't drafted and developed a key forward since Tredrea.
 

Andre

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#29
Because of the backfire potential.

Take this year. We love Rozee, but if Ben King becomes a decent standard AFL key forward, did we pick wrong?

At this precise moment, Todd Marshall ahead of Jarrod Berry looks dubious too. And if Marshall doesn’t come up...
Not even a backfire potential when you are talking multiple picks. You are 99% likely to have many more busts in a group of a dozen talls taken at the same picks as a dozen smalls.

It is both a lack of faith in our ability to develop talls AND a recruiting team that doesn’t have strong direction from above to recruit more talls and wear the inevitable busts, over looking like ‘geniuses’ for almost never having any real busts. That team of Sam Grays and traded in KPF’s though eh?
 
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Thread starter #30
This is an interesting point actually.

Marshall - pick #16
Clurey - pick #29
Hayes - pick #47
Dougal - pick #56
Grundy - pick #73
Frampton - pick #84

Then you've got Jonas, Houston, Ladhams and Lienert that were all rookie elevations and Ryder, Dixon and Lycett either from trades or free agency.

Why is this club afraid of taking talls early in the draft?
TBF Weren't they were all the first draft picks we had for those years? Bar Frampton.
 
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#31
Nah, VFA flags from between 1870 & 1897. Pre VFL.
The VFA started in April 1877. Geelong president Colin Carter wants the AFL to count as AFL flags the flags won between 1870-1876 when there were micky mouse comps. That's complete BS.

I don't agree with it, but I get what he is arguing about the flags between 1877 and 1896. They shouldn't give them the same status as VFL flags from 1897 onward. Sure Geelong can say they have won 16 flags - 9 V/AFL + 7 others - that is their history after all, but they don't have the right to say they have won 16 V/AFL flags because that isn't the history of the V/AFL.
 

Janus

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#32
We haven’t picked tall forwards because most of the talls are rubbish, that’s why.

Go back to 2009 and see who we could have picked after Butcher. 2010, 2011, 2012...most of them were either concessions or father son picks. We brought in Clurey anyway.

2013 draft we could have picked McCarthy and waved goodbye to him after two years like GWS did. We brought in Polec and Impey instead and selected Mitch Harvey who was rubbish. We could have selected Brown, but so could have any other team.

2014 we brought in Ryder and Howard and Frampton, 2015 we brought in Dixon.

2016 our first pick was Marshall. 2017 we picked Sam Hayes.
 

Papa G

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#33
The VFA started in April 1877. Geelong president Colin Carter wants the AFL to count as AFL flags the flags won between 1870-1876 when there were micky mouse comps. That's complete BS.

I don't agree with it, but I get what he is arguing about the flags between 1877 and 1896. They shouldn't give them the same status as VFL flags from 1897 onward. Sure Geelong can say they have won 16 flags - 9 V/AFL + 7 others - that is their history after all, but they don't have the right to say they have won 16 V/AFL flags because that isn't the history of the V/AFL.
Those VFA Flags are probably the equal of the VFL ones because up until 1897, the VFA was the main show in town. You could even argue it was stronger than the VFL as some strong clubs remained in the VFA.
 

TeeKray

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Moderator #34
There's an argument to be made that you're better off trading for established talls than drafting unknown talls. How many first round picks would you need to use on tall forwards/rucks to be reasonably assured of picking 1 quality tall? Maybe 3? Might as well just cut out the crap and trade a couple of first rounders for known quantities as we did with Ryder and Dixon.
 

Relativity

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#35
Lol the AFL is pleased they have control. They couldnt care less if we had debt or didnt have debt.

If you actually think the AFL takes our club seriously, remember they are trying to rewrite history snd recognise non VFL flags for Vic teams, but not our SANFL flags etc.
This is the sticking point. While the AFL have voting control of our board I can't have any "confidence of the future". Our future is solidly in their hands and not ours. I'd feel more confident if the members could **** off an under performing board/Chairman as it was throughout our over performing SNAFL history. We lost control of our destiny through a dirty underhanded deal between the SNAFL and the back stabbing VFL. It is going to take some shrewd maneuvering to regain that control and a hell of a lot of faith in the AFL appointed lackeys on our Board.
 

Pear1870

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#36
I would love to know - what everyone thinks of the future for Port Adelaide?

Personally I am very bullish; Financially we are growing sound - China is paying off (I believe we will post a profit this year). Management seems to be okay, they are getting us out of crippling debt which is generally a good sign of good management, the AFL is pleased with our efforts to get out of Debt. Jason Cripps (list management) is a God, he picks gems and he gets what we want. I do have concerns about our coaching (hinkley and Voss in particular, Voss in particular); Do I think Ken Hinkley is the right man for the job? I honestly don't know, I have been told from players that he is well loved and liked and that they do listen to him. I honestly do think he is a premiership capable coach, at Port Adelaide however I don't know again.Voss can fuark off.

Our past, and failed 2009 draft of Pittard(who was a good servant) along with Moore (lol) and Butcher (lol) is largely the reason we haven't had much success, imagine if we had 3x prime 28 year olds playing right now, along with pittard and wingard... we would be powerful... but we don't, we are in a vacuum which I believe to be a key source of our inconsistency: Old blokes don't have the same output as they once had, and the younglings are naturally inconsistent. I also doubt we will make finals this year or even next year which I recognise might cripple the club.

However we should be proud of the culture the club has fostered over the recent years, we have country victorians re-signing and victorians wanting to stay, many of them privately say they want to be Port Adelaide players for life. And holy ****, our 3 youngsters (P.S I hear they all want to re-sign) along all those amazing players under the age of 25, not many clubs could say they have a better under 25 list than us. We have a great young nucleus forming around SPP, Ollie, Rozee, Butters, Dursma, Drew, Atley, Amon (on the basis of this years form but will work on the assumption he will want to go home this year), Howard, Garner, Clurey, DBJ, Farrell etc. etc...

Right now however, it is a changing of the guard; Boak and Robbie are heros and we are so lucky they have stayed life Port players when really we didn't deserve it but they are getting old. We also have many players 28+ who don't really seem like premiership heroes... I think we should be looking to trade out Hartlett, Motlop and Rocky - Are we honestly a better team with them in? lets get some picks, let us cu

My view is that I am not proud of the past 10 years... But I am confident of the future, we all should be. Again I would love to know what other Port Adelaide supporters think! I recognise how toxic it is to stay "stick fat" for another few years but the reality I believe in is that is what we need to do, I feel a little hawthorn 04-06 about us.
3 questions.

1. I would really like yo know how long you have been on a contract with the club?
2. I would really like to know how much is your original input and how much is from the club ?
3. I would really like to know do you believe i was born yesterday ?


I know hasbara when I see it mate. Glad to see others are also alert to it also.
Next time, try and not be so obvious.
 

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Thread starter #38
3 questions.

1. I would really like yo know how long you have been on a contract with the club?
2. I would really like to know how much is your original input and how much is from the club ?
3. I would really like to know do you believe i was born yesterday ?


I know hasbara when I see it mate. Glad to see others are also alert to it also.
Next time, try and not be so obvious.
so you arent bullish about any of our under 25 players? I literally just said Im unsure about hinkley nothing I said was outrageous and I said for Voss to Jog on, don't hear anyone at club level saying that lol
 
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Thread starter #41
Bahaha Bassett.. Fold ports..
Bass is a well respected coach in SA and in VIC, unsure what he has done that would suggest he is not a good candidate for a head coach position. Not his fault westhoff cant kick straight nor is it his fault our midfield mix is toast and cant kick to anyone on the chest
 

El_Scorcho

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#43
There's an argument to be made that you're better off trading for established talls than drafting unknown talls. How many first round picks would you need to use on tall forwards/rucks to be reasonably assured of picking 1 quality tall? Maybe 3? Might as well just cut out the crap and trade a couple of first rounders for known quantities as we did with Ryder and Dixon.
How often is this available to you though really? We got incredibly lucky with Ryder and Dixon.

Most of the big name talls that have moved have either had some off field issues or cost an arm and a couple of legs.

That said,

Under Hinkley our commitment to developing key forwards has been somewhere between reluctant and non existent, so we may as well look for trades.
 
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Moderator #44
There's an argument to be made that you're better off trading for established talls than drafting unknown talls. How many first round picks would you need to use on tall forwards/rucks to be reasonably assured of picking 1 quality tall? Maybe 3? Might as well just cut out the crap and trade a couple of first rounders for known quantities as we did with Ryder and Dixon.
Trading for a tall would be more cost effective from a draft pick point of view but also would be more expensive contract wise. The real issue though is availability. Quality talls are rarely traded for and it's a very exclusive market when they are traded.

The best bet seems to be using later draft picks and cycling through players until we get a hit like with Howard, Jonas and Westhoff.
 

Butters Made Me Do It

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#45
Trading for a tall would be more cost effective from a draft pick point of view but also would be more expensive contract wise.
Not just that but ‘get them to Port Adelaide’-wise. We saw how far Sydney were willing to go to get Franklin, how do we win that battle? And I don’t think any contract couldve shifted Pavlich. There’s plenty more coulda but didn’ts over the years.

And its not as though the SANFL has ever pumped out a ****load of legit KPFs for us to homesick back to us.

Lets also not forget that key position forwards often put together some pretty productive seasons before they become ‘a known quantity’.

The best bet seems to be using later draft picks and cycling through players until we get a hit like with Howard, Jonas and Westhoff.
I’d suggest the best bet is to keep drafting tall forwards early when they’re a good option, and when you get a couple that really work, then you can load up on everything else. We spent years building around Tredders on the cheap, just as the Roos did with Carey, and the Hawks with Franklin. The elite KPF makes everyone else better, and frankly even good KPFs (well coached) help with that
 

El_Scorcho

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#46
Our really high picks in recent history were Wingard and Wines, who were both considered steals.

If Max King or Lukosius were available and we'd taken Rozee I'd be annoyed but Rozee appeared to be the right pick.

You have to take best available that high.
 

Butters Made Me Do It

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#47
Our really high picks in recent history were Wingard and Wines, who were both considered steals.

If Max King or Lukosius were available and we'd taken Rozee I'd be annoyed but Rozee appeared to be the right pick.

You have to take best available that high.
Well, given we threw a ton of picks and a couple of players into trading up that high, I think its fair to say it wasn’t a ‘best available’ situation that saw us pick Rozee. We engineered the whole scenario.
 

El_Scorcho

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#48
Obviously, and at this point it doesn't even need to be said really, we should have played Butcher more and he should still be on the list so that we're not in the laughable list management situation where our KPF options after an injury are a sub 15 gamer, an aging resting ruckman and a green kid.

You need to keep tall depth on your list just as much as you need small depth.
 
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Moderator #49
I’d suggest the best bet is to keep drafting tall forwards early when they’re a good option, and when you get a couple that really work, then you can load up on everything else. We spent years building around Tredders on the cheap, just as the Roos did with Carey, and the Hawks with Franklin. The elite KPF makes everyone else better, and frankly even good KPFs (well coached) help with that
I agree but even here we'd need a top 5 pick or some special draft concession to land an elite KPF so in most years we're weighing up spending a first rounder on a KPF over a small where the small is more certain to make it. It's a risk that probably doesn't pay off as much as clubs would like, which is why so many talls tend to slide if they're not very highly rated. This wasn't as big an issue with Marshall because we double dipped with SPP. And so my thinking is based on cycling players and aiming to land the next Ben Brown, unless our first rounder is high enough to land a top rated KPF.
 
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Thread starter #50
where our KPF options after an injury are a sub 15 gamer, an aging resting ruckman and a green kid.
Think my favourite one is Howard, drafted as a forward, then goes to half back, then goes back to forward because of lack of development of other key forwards... Certainly good for development... Cough Weitering Cough...
 
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