Society/Culture Public Transport: When is enough enough?

[Nardz]

in the past 3 weeks now, 3 times i have experienced major delays going to/from work - and some would say i've had a good run.

A normal trip to the city should take me about 40 minutes by train. when this starts taking 1 hour and 10 minutes, 1 hour and 20 minutes, it gets to the point that we're simply not getting the service we're paying for.

Had i have been aware it would have taken me nearly an hour and a half to get to work this morning, i would have just driven. I've purchased a ticket on the premise and that I would arrive at my destination in a timely manner - so in my opinion i've been mislead into purchasing a service.

Is it good enough for the government to just fine the operators, or should the passengers that suffer have the right to some form of compensation?

and further to this, the benchmarks are set on a percentage of services delivered etc, when clearly a peak hour service being cancelled has an impact on much more people than a train at 9pm. is there any danger of having their results measured in a way that is actually relevant to the needs of melbourne public transport users?

 

[RisingPhoenix]

The replies of Tory proponents for the privatisation of public services would be warmly appreciated.

 

[Admiral Byng]

Depends what's causing the delays. If it's something like a train breaking down from lack of maintenance and blocking the line then yes, you have reason to be angry about it. But if it is some random event out of their control then you just need to put up with it.

 

[kwame]

public trnsport is very over priced for the service you get also public transport should be free anyway.....

 

[Admiral Byng]

.. also public transport should be free anyway.....

Disagree strongly there. Need some kind of system to keep the undesirables off the trains. If that is a gated railway station with an attendent checking tickets it is money well spent. Public transport involves getting into close proximity with complete strangers, some people find that uncomfortable as it is. If you let in all sorts of drunks and vagrants just wonder in off the street and get on the train then lots of decent people will stop using it because of that.

 

[kwame]

public transport is already the domain of low socio-economic "undesireables"

governments want you to leave the car at home to ease congestion then spend money on public transport infrastructure and ensure passengers safety and make it free to everyone

 

[Admiral Byng]

public transport is already the domain of low socio-economic "undesireables"

governments want you to leave the car at home to ease congestion then spend money on public transport infrastructure and ensure passengers safety and make it free to everyone

If we want more people to use it, they should be safe and comfortable for everyone to use.

It's not so much a question of socio-economic status - even sober bogans can sit quietly and mind their own business. It's the drunks and solvent abusers who get on the train and start shouting, fighting, hassling people for money etc that turn people off from public transport. We need to keep them off the trains in the first place - if the ticket barrier at the station is attended by security - they can be the gatekeepers to keep these people off the station and off the trains to make it safe and comfortable for everyone else.

 

[Nardz]

Depends what's causing the delays. If it's something like a train breaking down from lack of maintenance and blocking the line then yes, you have reason to be angry about it. But if it is some random event out of their control then you just need to put up with it.

apparently today it was an "equipment fault" at west richmond.

they just throw that up as an excuse without providing any detail what so ever.

the other thing that shits me, is that my train is scheduled to go to flinders st then pass through the loop. i need to get to parliament.

once it gets to flinders, half the time they make you get off at platform 14 (which really shouldn't be in operation, not very accessible and takes about 10 minutes to get out of the station from there), other times, today being one of those, they get to flinders street and then announce the train is not taking passengers, so everybody needs to get off and get to another platform to get through the loop. this took about 15 minutes today. the train was scheduled to go through the loop but dint, so does this count as a cancellation?

I honestly believe there should be a refund system put in place for when the service has fallen drastically short. in the end of the day the timetables advertise a service. ie. catch a train at 7:22, arrive at parliament at 8:14. this is advertised in writing. if i catch the 7:22 and arrive at parliament at 8:50 then i believe i have not received the service I paid for.

and just to top it off... the announcement speaker on trains, what do they have a pair of headphones sized speakers pumping out the audio for everyone to hear? you can NEVER understand a word they say. i'd have a better chance of making sense of brail.

 

[Nardz]

If we want more people to use it, they should be safe and comfortable for everyone to use.

It's not so much a question of socio-economic status - even sober bogans can sit quietly and mind their own business. It's the drunks and solvent abusers who get on the train and start shouting, fighting, hassling people for money etc that turn people off from public transport. We need to keep them off the trains in the first place - if the ticket barrier at the station is attended by security - they can be the gatekeepers to keep these people off the station and off the trains to make it safe and comfortable for everyone else.

"junkie hour" is usually seperate from peak hours anyway so it usually sorts itself out

i know if i catch a train between 11-2 then it's gonna be "interesting", in the evening the most you might have to deal with is usually a bunch of over excited kids who might have had a few..

 

[BABYBOMBERS2007]

Public transport has never been efficient.

 

[kwame]

Public transport has never been efficient.

overseas it is

 

[Simple Jack]

Enough was enough the day I got my licence.
Drive.
Public transport is horrendous.

 

[Nardz]

Enough was enough the day I got my licence.
Drive.
Public transport is horrendous.

it should not have to come to that.

if public transport is running well, it's about 20 minutes quicker for me to catch a train than it is to drive in. not to mention the cost of parking, petrol, wear and tear on the car.. and i generally prefer to be sitting reading/watching some show on my ipad and unwinding as opposed to navigating my way through traffic.

we have a right to expect a minimum level of service, and that level service has not been met for a very long time. the benchmarks that they're forced to report do not accurately reflect this.

and if everyone had this "drive" mentality, the roads would be horrific. not to mention the pollution issue that'd come as a result (not that i'm a tree hugger or anything)..

 

[Simple Jack]

^^^^
Each to their own, but for me there is no contest.
If you drive you-
Always have a seat
Temperature set at your preference
Listen to what you want without having to put headphones in (small i know)
Never smelly people around
Never drunk shitheads trying to cause problems
Never pressed up against a window because your car is so full
Edit- forgot, Never have to wait for your car, your car is never cancelled and you can stop anywhere on way home if you need to.

Obviously downsides being cost/time (potentially) and the inabillity to read/watch things whilst driving.
Edit- you can also engage in healthy after work drinks if using PT

For me the positives outweigh the negatives by a massive margin so its a no issue but obviously different people care about different things.

By the way, with our train system, you can't run a 2011 system using early 1900's infrastructure and without massive investment, it won't get better.

 

[B_GLassi]

hmmm weird. I never though Melbourne's transport was this bad when I went there. Guess I never went to the outer suburbs.

In terms of Sydney, public transport sucks and driving sucks even more. Major roads are car parks during peak hours. We have finally decided to bite the bullet and move to the North so 2/3 people can be within 10 minutes of work.

 

[Underdog]

Parking card for the CBD paid for by my company FTW!

 

[wmvaux]

The operators should be fined for every late train, for every time a train is taken out of service passengers should get compensated, by either free tickets or credits.

The public deserve to have a fair system and if it lets them down, then they look after their customers.

Having just come back from the states, monorail systems are the way to go. They are cheaper to maintain and more reliable.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

hmmm weird. I never though Melbourne's transport was this bad when I went there. Guess I never went to the outer suburbs.

In terms of Sydney, public transport sucks and driving sucks even more. Major roads are car parks during peak hours. We have finally decided to bite the bullet and move to the North so 2/3 people can be within 10 minutes of work.

Melbourne, at least inner city Melbourne has good coverage when it comes to public transport.

What it lacks is reliability when it comes to trains.

All my years of living in and visiting Victoria the only bus I have caught is the shuttle bus, so I can't comment there.

The tramlines I regularly caught were usually spot on and have never had an issue with the Sandringham train line but there are regular problems with many of the lines.

Kind of like buses in Perth, except less excusable, since traffic and passenger numbers could never be used as an excuse.

 

[Nardz]

^^^^
Each to their own, but for me there is no contest.
If you drive you-
Always have a seat
Temperature set at your preference
Listen to what you want without having to put headphones in (small i know)
Never smelly people around
Never drunk shitheads trying to cause problems
Never pressed up against a window because your car is so full
Edit- forgot, Never have to wait for your car, your car is never cancelled and you can stop anywhere on way home if you need to.

Obviously downsides being cost/time (potentially) and the inabillity to read/watch things whilst driving.
Edit- you can also engage in healthy after work drinks if using PT

For me the positives outweigh the negatives by a massive margin so its a no issue but obviously different people care about different things.

By the way, with our train system, you can't run a 2011 system using early 1900's infrastructure and without massive investment, it won't get better.

whilst i can't disagree with any of your individual points, i guess it just comes down to how much weighting you put on each point.

end of the day though we just want a bit of accountability.. and the current way of measuring performance and compensation does not even go close to delivering that.

this is what we need

 

[Hill2Pav]

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/metro-trains-rated-australias-worst-20110614-1g27t.html

Metro Trains rated Australia's worst


METRO Trains has been voted the worst city rail system in the country, according to a commuter satisfaction survey.
Metro came last in all surveyed categories, which included reliability and performance, comfort of trains, safety, timetables and scheduling, and signage and announcements.
The survey of 2500 Australian commuters, conducted by independent research group Canstar Cannex, compared train passenger satisfaction between Melbourne, Sydney, Perth, Adelaide and Queensland rail systems.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/m...alias-worst-20110614-1g27t.html#ixzz1PIIBd5i1
​

 

[Nardz]

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/metro-trains-rated-australias-worst-20110614-1g27t.html

i sort of feel for metro though.. because clearly it's the system and infrastructure that is at fault... there's only so much they can do.

we are in desperate need of investment.. and i guess that's starting to happen, but probably not enough.

though they do probably contribute to the problem with the way they operate things.

 

[Partridge]

^^^^
Each to their own, but for me there is no contest.
If you drive you-
Always have a seat
Temperature set at your preference
Listen to what you want without having to put headphones in (small i know)
Never smelly people around
Never drunk shitheads trying to cause problems
Never pressed up against a window because your car is so full
Edit- forgot, Never have to wait for your car, your car is never cancelled and you can stop anywhere on way home if you need to.

Obviously downsides being cost/time (potentially) and the inabillity to read/watch things whilst driving.
Edit- you can also engage in healthy after work drinks if using PT

For me the positives outweigh the negatives by a massive margin so its a no issue but obviously different people care about different things.

By the way, with our train system, you can't run a 2011 system using early 1900's infrastructure and without massive investment, it won't get better.

I cannot even begin to express my contempt for Melbourne's public transport system, and that's only concerning train travel.

In the span of one week recently, I had the following things occur:

1. Tuesday night leaving Flinders Street just after 9pm (after I finished night school). I'm getting the train home to Parkdale as per normal. The train stops at Moorabbin and we're informed everyone has to get off and catch buses. No reason, no explanation.

2. Thursday night leaving the CBD around 5. Train sits at Caulfield for about 20 minutes, before we're told that it's no longer taking passengers and we have to switch. Thankfully a Mordialloc was soon after which I was able to get. Lucky though.

3. Friday night leaving the CBD. I get on at Southern Cross on what is meant to be a Frankston express. After the absolutely standard 10 minute wait outside of Flinders Street, it rolls into Flinders Street and I barely have enough time to look out the window to see it's now a Sydenham train. Just as I jump off as it takes off, the actual Frankston express leaves on the opposite side of the platform.

Incompetence at its finest. Nothing would give me greater joy than sacking the clowns who administer this disaster.

The bigger problem is culturally we simply don't demand punctuality and efficiency the way other countries do. We just don't care enough to be like Japan or Germany. The "near enough is good enough" attitude is fine for a joke, but not when you're running professional services organisations.

Unless that changes, it'll never get any better.

 

[Nardz]

The bigger problem is culturally we simply don't demand punctuality and efficiency the way other countries do. We just don't care enough to be like Japan or Germany. The "near enough is good enough" attitude is fine for a joke, but not when you're running professional services organisations.

Unless that changes, it'll never get any better.

we also like to just sit back and complain from a distance (yes i know, pretty much what i'm doing now) and hope that the government decides to make changes out of the goodness of their hearts. at most you might get a today tonight expose every now n then...

in other countries they demand change, and basically leave the government with little choice but to do right by their people.

 

[Shell]

I
3. Friday night leaving the CBD. I get on at Southern Cross on what is meant to be a Frankston express. After the absolutely standard 10 minute wait outside of Flinders Street, it rolls into Flinders Street and I barely have enough time to look out the window to see it's now a Sydenham train. Just as I jump off as it takes off, the actual Frankston express leaves on the opposite side of the platform.
.

This has happened to me twice. Craigieburn train somehow magically ends up at Footscray Station.

Yeah nice place to be when you're a female and alone, at night.

The trains are generally rubbish- only use them for going to the football on the weekends thank god, not during the week- I drive to and from work. Not that I could use public transport anyway to get to and from work.

 

[Mofra]

Melbourne, at least inner city Melbourne has good coverage when it comes to public transport.

What it lacks is reliability when it comes to trains.

In some inner city areas peaktime is a nightmare. Because Kensington is one of the last stops before Nth Melb/CBD, most passengers miss out on a train or two and if there's a cancellation you need to make other arrangements.

Our train system is at a critical mass and major overhaul is needed. Successiive governments have neglected the service and now even one of the best rail operators on the planet can't save it.