Public vs Private School funding

[Gralin]

Took this discussion out of the Dan Andrew's thread where Deliverance said

Other than facilities and the price tag, private schools aren't any different to their state school counterparts.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Other than facilities and the price tag, private schools aren't any different to their state school counterparts.

My library had science books that were 20 years out of date. They had no staff to advise students on year 12 prep or uni prerequisites. They had teachers who needed students to run the physics and calculus classes because they didn't understand the course material themselves.

But yeah, we were the same as Scotch and Xavier

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Other than facilities and the price tag, private schools aren't any different to their state school counterparts.

 

[Theseventhhamster]

My library had science books that were 20 years out of date. They had no staff to advise students on year 12 prep or uni prerequisites. They had teachers who needed students to run the physics and calculus classes because they didn't understand the course material themselves.

But yeah, we were the same as Scotch and Xavier

Until I met some people who went to fancy schools later on, I had no idea that there was such a range of subjects taught at other schools. We did have bunch of nice old lathes though as my school was previous a tech school.

 

[FredLeDeux]

My library had science books that were 20 years out of date. They had no staff to advise students on year 12 prep or uni prerequisites. They had teachers who needed students to run the physics and calculus classes because they didn't understand the course material themselves.

But yeah, we were the same as Scotch and Xavier

I went to private school and easily from thence to university.
I stayed in touch with my primary school classmates, who all went to a brand new government secondary school.
Of the half dozen or so of a similar academic standard to me, not a single one went anywhere near the Year 6 results needed for uni.
Not one.

 

[Sttew]

I went to private school and easily from thence to university.
I stayed in touch with my primary school classmates, who all went to a brand new government secondary school.
Of the half dozen or so of a similar academic standard to me, not a single one went anywhere near the Year 6 results needed for uni.
Not one.

Do you mean Form 6 / Year 12? Or did you go to a Mensa school?

 

[Crankyhawk]

My library had science books that were 20 years out of date. They had no staff to advise students on year 12 prep or uni prerequisites. They had teachers who needed students to run the physics and calculus classes because they didn't understand the course material themselves.

But yeah, we were the same as Scotch and Xavier

And to add at scotch we had teachers who were also writing the syllabus and/ or own textbooks, had university math program which somehow had the same problems as the maths methods CAT tasks but given about a month earlier (to complete the math but not the writing up) which obviously made doing the CAT somewhat easier.

But sure we were similar to Coburg high (random public school name)

 

[FredLeDeux]

Do you mean Form 6 / Year 12? Or did you go to a Mensa school?

Told you I was smarter than the average bear.

 

[Ice-Wolf]

When I said the vast majority of catholic high schools are not much different to their state school counterparts I wasn't referencing the St Kevin's and Marcellin's which are just like their Grammar School counterparts.

 

[Carn The Berries]

When I said the vast majority of catholic high schools are not much different to their state school counterparts I wasn't referencing the St Kevin's and Marcellin's which are just like their Grammar School counterparts.

Based on the schools in my area I would strongly argue against that. The chasm between the public education and the (low fee paying) Catholic education is enormous!

There might be an argument for Catholic Primary Schools vs. State, but there is a big difference from Year 7 onwards.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

Like most state school kids we really did love it when little johhnie gutted our education so st douchebags can get their 2nd swimming pool or some degenerate crap that they did not need.

Millions wasted on the few while few is spent on the millions.

 

[Sttew]

Given the discussion has moved to Schools and Education I'd be interested to hear what the views are on federal and state funding of Education in Australia, i.e., whether the level of government funding for private schools is adequate/excessive, whether governments should provide any funding to private schools?

 

[Evolved1]

Given the discussion has moved to Schools and Education I'd be interested to hear what the views are on federal and state funding of Education in Australia, i.e., whether the level of government funding for private schools is adequate/excessive, whether governments should provide any funding to private schools?

Government funding of private schools is about right. The ideal situation is that private schools wouldn't be necessary, but in the current landscape many public schools are s**t. Funding choice of schooling is a fair and reasonable use of taxpayer funds.

 

[Gralin]

lol whether the level of private school funding is adequte

 

[Ice-Wolf]

Given the discussion has moved to Schools and Education I'd be interested to hear what the views are on federal and state funding of Education in Australia, i.e., whether the level of government funding for private schools is adequate/excessive, whether governments should provide any funding to private schools?

Every student should be funded the same for education. Capital works are the responsibility of the owner to fund themselves either via school fees or other fundraising. The Elite private schools don't need any government grants for capital works.

 

[Sttew]

Every student should be funded the same for education. Capital works are the responsibility of the owner to fund themselves either via school fees or other fundraising. The Elite private schools don't need any government grants for capital works.

No argument with that. Most private schools have elaborate fund raising departments, some of which raise hundreds of millions.

At the moment non government schools receive about $16,500/student per annum -v- $12,000 for state school students. The argument is that if there were no private schools (which account for about 20% of the education system) the public/state system would not be able to cope with the sudden influx and/or would need to build schools for more than a million extra students

 

[The Punter]

Every student should be funded the same for education. Capital works are the responsibility of the owner to fund themselves either via school fees or other fundraising. The Elite private schools don't need any government grants for capital works.

Government funding per child is more for kids going to government run schools than non-government run schools.

Australian government funding for private schools still growing faster than for public

Productivity Commission says spending on private students rose 3.3% per year over decade compared with 1.4% for public

www.theguardian.com

The gap is being narrowed, however. IMO that gap is not going to disappear.

Another way of looking at this is: every child taken out of private education and moved to government education costs the taxpayers money. That's why ads run by the Victorian Government in the past attracting children to government education were so stupid - the ad campaign becomes more expensive the more successful it is.

 

[Sttew]

lol whether the level of private school funding is adequte

Why?

 

[Gralin]

No argument with that. Most private schools have elaborate fund raising departments, some of which raise hundreds of millions.

At the moment non government schools receive about $16,500/student per annum -v- $12,000 for state school students. The argument is that if there were no private schools (which account for about 20% of the education system) the public/state system would not be able to cope with the sudden influx and/or would need to build schools for more than a million extra students

the argument is made by the greedy campaigners who already get more dollars per student

 

[Gralin]

Why?

because its a ******* rort we should not be putting a single cent of tax dollars into private schooling we don't fund public schools adequately and the gap is getting wider not narrower, so more and more of the education budget is going to well off schools

 

[Sttew]

the argument is made by the greedy campaigners who already get more dollars per student

What should the formula be IYO?

 

[Evolved1]

because its a ******* rort we should not be putting a single cent of tax dollars into private schooling we don't fund public schools adequately and the gap is getting wider not narrower, so more and more of the education budget is going to well off schools

So you're against funding choice for parents who otherwise wouldn't be able to afford private schooling. Interesting.

 

[Carn The Berries]

Government funding of private schools is about right. The ideal situation is that private schools wouldn't be necessary, but in the current landscape many public schools are sh*t. Funding choice of schooling is a fair and reasonable use of taxpayer funds.

This pretty much sums it up. The reality is, without Government funding there would be little or no non-Government education in lower socio-economic areas (particularly out of the metro area) in either the primary or secondary space. The way the funding is calculated means that the high-end Grammar schools actually get very little in the way of government support. People would be quite surprised at how much it costs to run a school each year (on a per student basis).

There is an interesting question in regards to funding of State schools. Given the feds contribute the vast majority of funds to the independent/Catholic sector I think there is scope for a discussion around additional support for State schools to come from Canberra. The opposite side of that argument is that by supporting the non-Government sector, the feds are providing relief for the State sector (reducing demand).

The adjustments to the federal funding calculations in the last couple of years (replacement of the SES with DMI as the way of determining capacity to contribute) has definitely made things a little harder for some non-Government schools (though the vast majority are better off).

What I do think is necessary is for the states and commonwealth to have a binding agreement that they will provide 20% and 80% respectively to non-Government schools. It's not a nice feeling having to wait until the end of the year to know what level of support the Vic Government are going to provide from year to year (this isn't just an issue in Vic btw).

 

[Crankyhawk]

So you're against funding choice for parents who otherwise wouldn't be able to afford private schooling. Interesting.

Not sure why government should fund choice. If it meant some private schools lack sufficient enrolment to be viable that’s just competition calling.

 

[Sttew]

because its a ******* rort we should not be putting a single cent of tax dollars into private schooling we don't fund public schools adequately and the gap is getting wider not narrower, so more and more of the education budget is going to well off schools

If government funding of private schools was abolished, a large percentage of families who send their kids to private schools, many of who are average families where both parents work and one parent's income goes to school fees, would be forced to bail out and the children enrolled in government schools because of the resultant rise in fees. Is that fair? Firstly the state system would not cope. Secondly, why should families who pay their share of taxes as PAYG be penalised because they choose to send their kids to private school?