Public vs Private Schools

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Mister M

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Private school kiddies wouldn't have lasted long if they tried playing this sport in the 70's and 80's.
To be fair; the “locker room” mentality of Previous generations still exists more in Private schools/single gendered schools today than public schools.

The actions of the St. Kevin’s boys a few weeks back is straight out of the old end of season footy trip play book.
 

SBD Gonzalez

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Kidding, right?
This topic intrigues me, having grown up in NSW, where one of the biggest demarcations between public and private schools is that public schools by and large play rugby league, while private schools by and large play rugby union (this of couuse will come as no small shock to many Victorians who believed there is only one game, called "rugby".)

That code divide, where the code you follow as an adult is often a product of whether you were educated in the public or private system, would appear to be completely absent in the southern states. Very different societies.
 

MC Extra Dollop

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This topic intrigues me, having grown up in NSW, where one of the biggest demarcations between public and private schools is that public schools by and large play rugby league, while private schools by and large play rugby union (this of couuse will come as no small shock to many Victorians who believed there is only one game, called "rugby".)

That code divide, where the code you follow as an adult is often a product of whether you were educated in the public or private system, would appear to be completely absent in the southern states. Very different societies.
Rowing is probably the only one I can think of down here. Huge with the private schools, unheard of with the public schools. Perhaps some of the other sports where there's a perception of it being a rich person's game (tennis, golf). Most of the other major sports are equally popular in the public and private system.
 

Upgrayedd

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This topic intrigues me, having grown up in NSW, where one of the biggest demarcations between public and private schools is that public schools by and large play rugby league, while private schools by and large play rugby union (this of couuse will come as no small shock to many Victorians who believed there is only one game, called "rugby".)

That code divide, where the code you follow as an adult is often a product of whether you were educated in the public or private system, would appear to be completely absent in the southern states. Very different societies.
Good reason why Union sucks is because the governing body has failed for decades now to support and grow grassroots. People want to rag on AFL not doing enough but they dont understand that the AFL is fine, compared to the ARU who have axed the force (pieces of shit) to keep Money flowing for a year or two will down the line cripple us, and it's showing very soon. We have some promising Juniors but we really have under-preformed for years and right now it's looking scary
 

Bombermania

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That would be excellent money if.........

Just a decent house in a respectable suburb didn't cost well over 1 Million and private/catholic education at a half decent school wasn't at least 10k pa per child. Or you can move in to a top secondary school area if you can afford to live there - get a 2mil house in the Camberwell/Balwyn/McKinnon/Mount Waverly catchment. Add in the cost of basic necessities if you have kids like childcare, the dentist, clothing, food etc and people are going to push for more money.

The reality is we've cooked our society to the stage where private education and private health (and private tutors and private tennis lessons and private gold clubs and private etc etc) are the way to go and everyone's chasing the cash to make it work.

I don't mean to be disrespectful to tradies because they deserve it but they are pulling ahead of teachers and nurses even if they are giving up plenty for the chance to do it (fly in fly out, weekends, major projects etc).

All because everyone is chasing the money available in business and competing with those who have money from inheritance, overseas cash etc. So many jobs in finance and pencil pushing executives in big businesses that contribute nothing of value to society.
It is excellent pay.

There are plenty of properties around Melbourne for under a million in the suburbs listed there is the cheaper option of a two or three bedroom unit. These discussions always see people talk about the cost of living yet every teacher I know seems able to buy a house and seems able to enjoy themselves and paying private school fees is a personal choice and not a necessity.
 
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Bombermania

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In Victoria 2019, the current entry Graduate Teacher salary at Level 1.1 is $69,772.
It rises in roughly $3,000 annual increments for 10 years up to $106,146.
Seek promotion and the numbers are related to size of the school. Lowest level Assistant Principal (small school) gets $125K, highest (at a huge school) is on $178K.
Get to Principal and lowest is $141K and highest $215K. Again based on enrolment numbers.
Its not bad at all.
 

juss

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This may come as some shock to my southern cousins, but in NSW and Qld, there are actually two codes of rugby, namely rugby union (ie "Rugby" the original) and rugby league (ie "League", the breakaway code formed a hundred or so years ago).

Now, one of the defining points of difference between these two codes (who to a large extent hate each other's guts) is that Rugby is played almost exclusively at private schools, and League almost entirely at state schools.

It prompts me to ask my southern cousins, how on earth do the posh snobs and the hoi polloi effectively express their mutual disdain, if both private and public schools all play the same code of football?
I wouldn't know the first thing about NSW/QLD high school culture, but having just seen the Rugby world cup take place, Union to me seems like the sport filled with fat meatheads bashing their heads into each other and jumping all over each other and booting the ball while League seems a bit more controlled and planned with a tackle count and greater ball handling required.

Not trying to start a code war, but just a real casual observation. This would lead me to think League would be tied to the posh private schools rather than the other way round.
 

CatToTheFuture

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I went public 2 years and private 3. Quite frankly Max's comments don't make sense to me.

The value that private school adds is to act as a social filter only. If you're paying $30k per year for your kid to go to school then so do most of the other parents and as such you're setting a filter on the student body. A student there will either have parents who value education extremely highly and are making large investments in their children's success, or their child is gifted in some way and they got a scholarship, or they got a scholarship for being disadvantaged in some way but are that far in the minority they will never rock the boat. In all cases you're excluding bad parents from the equation, and the higher the fees the higher the minimum investment in parenting. The kids being abused or neglected by their parents are generally also the ones who disrupt and bully other kids, they slow down classes because their parents don't teach discipline or enforce homework.

"Quality of teaching", the astounding resources they have available (largely taxpayer funded I might add), and anything else they put forward as being a point of difference is really just window dressing.
 

SBD Gonzalez

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Kidding, right?
I wouldn't know the first thing about NSW/QLD high school culture, but having just seen the Rugby world cup take place, Union to me seems like the sport filled with fat meatheads bashing their heads into each other and jumping all over each other and booting the ball while League seems a bit more controlled and planned with a tackle count and greater ball handling required.

Not trying to start a code war, but just a real casual observation. This would lead me to think League would be tied to the posh private schools rather than the other way round.
Yes, understandable to think that way, but as they say, union is a game for thugs played by gentlemen. (I personally would describe league as a game for thugs played by thugs.)

I can kind of vegg out on the sheer simplicity of league, but union, which has the most confoundedly complex rules that do nothing to relieve what I perceive as a fundamentally ugly spectacle, leaves me stone cold.

That union is identified as the rich boys' sport is intriguing sociologically, and as I say, it's an undercurrent of society in NSW (and presumably QLD - I know nothing about the school system there) which is absent in the southern states.
 

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ItsAllAboutMe

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The key differpence in private education has nothing to do with the actual schooling, it’s about the lifelong networks that are created by going to that school. Even for example the Child becomes a tradie like an electrician, amongst that child’s friends will be kids with parents who are property developers or who run construction companies so will always have better work opportunities than a child who goes to a public school.. its the old principal of the rich getting richer by looking after their own.
 

deltablues

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The key differpence in private education has nothing to do with the actual schooling, it’s about the lifelong networks that are created by going to that school. Even for example the Child becomes a tradie like an electrician, amongst that child’s friends will be kids with parents who are property developers or who run construction companies so will always have better work opportunities than a child who goes to a public school.. its the old principal of the rich getting richer by looking after their own.
Yes, you are right, but not entirely...

I went to a very expensive WASP private boys' school [many years ago - in the '60's, but still relevant] and my peer group were sons of lawyers/doctors/architects etc. Socially we mixed and married only within the parents'/boys' and girls' private school network.

My career path [dictated by my parents, as per family tradition] was Law/Medicine. I never realized there were any other options. Not to do Law/Med in my family was to be a social pariah.

Our private school Masters knew the score. They all had post-Grad degrees, were excellent with boys, and pushed us like hell - but never hand-fed us. It was a Socratic experience in Matric. We studied our asses off, but in different ways.

In my peer group we strived to be top. That also got the girls, who even at a tender age wanted to know your plans. Money and status implied.

I wuz like always a totally lazy student, leaving things to the last minute, but I thrived on pressure and aced exams [open book in Law].

Post-Uni it was expected that one would be invited into a firm run by 'the old boys' of your private school. And I was, during Law School. By 'Old Boys'.

To be cont.
 

Vindicater

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I wouldn't know the first thing about NSW/QLD high school culture, but having just seen the Rugby world cup take place, Union to me seems like the sport filled with fat meatheads bashing their heads into each other and jumping all over each other and booting the ball while League seems a bit more controlled and planned with a tackle count and greater ball handling required.

Not trying to start a code war, but just a real casual observation. This would lead me to think League would be tied to the posh private schools rather than the other way round.
Nah, league is the poor mans game and Union is the rich mans game.
 

Do the Dew

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Yes, you are right, but not entirely...

I went to a very expensive WASP private boys' school [many years ago - in the '60's, but still relevant] and my peer group were sons of lawyers/doctors/architects etc. Socially we mixed and married only within the parents'/boys' and girls' private school network.

My career path [dictated by my parents, as per family tradition] was Law/Medicine. I never realized there were any other options. Not to do Law/Med in my family was to be a social pariah.

Our private school Masters knew the score. They all had post-Grad degrees, were excellent with boys, and pushed us like hell - but never hand-fed us. It was a Socratic experience in Matric. We studied our asses off, but in different ways.

In my peer group we strived to be top. That also got the girls, who even at a tender age wanted to know your plans. Money and status implied.

I wuz like always a totally lazy student, leaving things to the last minute, but I thrived on pressure and aced exams [open book in Law].

Post-Uni it was expected that one would be invited into a firm run by 'the old boys' of your private school. And I was, during Law School. By 'Old Boys'.

To be cont.
You're a Pies supporter. Clearly you didn't attend a private school. Get with the stereotype.
 

Engimal v3

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Lets say primary school teachers, keep in mind this is from 2013 so the numbers currently would be higher.


The Australian Education Union has a great document outlining what different state governments pay their teachers. Queensland’s 2013 public school graduate teachers started at $58,437, and its most experienced senior teachers will this year earn $85,557. In NSW, graduates are on $59,706, while top teachers earn $89,050. The Northern Territory offers $62,017 to graduates and $114,737 to specialist teachers (top standard classroom teachers earn a maximum of $88,941). The ACT pays $58,041 to its grads and $86,881 to its top teachers. South Australian teachers start on $59,629 and earn up to $85,999, although additional training can bump that up to $89,201. Down in Tasmania, graduates earn $57,565, with the highest paid teachers on $84,184. In Victoria, graduates this year started on $60,220, and top “leading teachers” earn $94,408. The latest Victorian pay agreement will result in teachers earning an extra 16.1% to 20.5% over three years.
Pay isn't anywhere near as bad as I thought it would be. There is a pretty low ceiling though, compared to other industries.
 

Marcel Proust

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Listening to Max Gawn on 360 tonight and he mentioned how only 4-5 players on the Melbourne list came from a public school and he believes the majority of footballers are from private schools due to the fact they are tought early how to work hard, discipline etc.
I thought it to be quite an interesting observation and want to know the rest of BigFooty's thoughts.
or, is it the other way round, they are soft twats?
 

CatToTheFuture

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Is that fair dinkum?

I can recall my parents struggling to pay for our public education and always remember having to buy 2nd hand books from the kids in the level above us.
30k is mind boggling.
I currently live in Adelaide where apparently it's all much cheaper and according to this there's 8 high schools that charge 26-27k per year:

I'm fine with them charging whatever they want but not if taxpayers are covering their operating costs. The whole thing is just begging for a royal commission on where the taxpayers money went.
 

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