Public vs Private Schools

[Donakebab]

"People" - what is with the quotation marks?

Obviously filthy public school peasants are too sub-human to be considered people.

 

[Adelaide Docker]

"People" - what is with the quotation marks?

Well I mean I don't want to throw the term around willy nilly

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

Apparently the issue is more that they suddenly have to do everything for themselves at uni. Have to suddenly be a lot more independent.

At public school you need to know how teach yourself for when the teacher rocks up drunk or something

Most of my mates had the same issue and we went to a public school.

And none of my teachers showed up drunk, one had a water break during class that was something.

 

[Bombermania]

There might be some truth with regards to footy, but as others have mentioned good footy players often receive scholarships (Cyril Rioli is one example) but in the real world I don't see any real evident that private school people work any harder, in today's workplace where you went to uni means more.

 

[YEOLO]

The thing about working hard and having good discipline because you went to a "private school" is a load of crap. I can't speak for a footy environment, but most of the really high achieving students at my university all came from public schools. Probably because all their lives they've had to work extra hard because they've never relied on "mummy and daddy's money" to get them places.

 

[Mateyman]

A lot of kids from private schools struggle at uni for exactly the reason that they don't have any discipline. Mind you Gawn doesn't look like there's a lot going on upstairs, so his views could be a bit random.

Although a lot more get in for whatever reason

 

[Bombermania]

Most public schools do not have sports teams that would be considered anywhere near the level that the private schools have.

Its more club based and that is the pathway to get to afl footy and if they are good enough they will get there. Milne, Fev, Chris Newman and James Gwilt got into the afl via club footy.

Most primary school kids tend to be funneled into the local footy team, this is why the local leagues including the Ammos are a great source of talent and let kids from both public and private compete, when I played footy, my team was pretty much made up of kids from the local state school yet we played teams aligned with the private schools.

 

[DrZaius]

The thing about working hard and having good discipline because you went to a "private school" is a load of crap. I can't speak for a footy environment, but most of the really high achieving students at my university all came from public schools. Probably because all their lives they've had to work extra hard because they've never relied on "mummy and daddy's money" to get them places.

Because all private school students come from rich families, right?

 

[Linda Lovelace]

Aside from the obvious reasons for private school dominance, it has been acknowledged by many astute observers of the game that it is still an overly posh sport in Melbourne. We aren't great at ensuring opportunities aren't wasted on mediocre talents that have benefited from years of development at the expense of genuine talents that don't make it into the system. This will always happen, but it probably happens a little too much in our game.

If you think every talented kid from a poor background gets a scholarship to a private school, you're kidding yourself. Likewise, you are kidding yourself if you think there is some toff conspiracy against the riff raff.

I think any of us who have experience on both sides of the tracks and played or were around multiple clubs know a few genuine talents that never got a real opportunity to shine and a few well connected spuds that it was incredible to see make it on to AFL lists before they inevitably failed. Obviously this isn't evidence of a major class divide, it's just an inefficient allocation of resources.

 

[spudmaster]

Actually, it serves a purpose but that purpose is usually a pretty s**t one. Divisiveness, class politics, that sort of stuff.

Anyway, if my boy wants to play senior AFL, jazz flute or Star Craft II and is good enough, he'll get there.

If he isn't South Korean, tell him not to bother.

 

[FootyGeek]

I think the point Gawn is trying to make is that Private school kids are exposed to more high achieving (not necessarily smarter or better) people - often their parents and friends parents - and are therefore (rightly or wrongly) less afraid to dream big. When you've grown up knowing doctors, lawyers, business owners etc the idea of getting drafted to play football isn't really all that outlandish. These days with school footy coaching becoming an industry it's even easier to get that belief.

Really, it's the main reason you send your kids to Private schools, so they can mix with the kids of high achieving parents and continue that legacy. As a Private school kid I know full well how many other kids were lazy, criminal, stupid etc, but very few lacked belief they could at least be good at it!

There's issues of recruiting bias, scholarships, private education creating higher work rate that are all controversial that I'm not sure Gawn was touching on.

Gawny's been hung up on the public v private thing for a while, which is interesting given he's from McKinnon I think, not exactly the ghetto and only a stones throw from Brighton Grammar. I think he just uses it as a well to show pride in himself, and good on him, he's come a long way and is a great bloke.

Rather!

Pip pip and all that!

 

[FootyGeek]

Because all private school students come from rich families, right?

Not all, but the vast majority.

 

[Bombermania]

Aside from the obvious reasons for private school dominance, it has been acknowledged by many astute observers of the game that it is still an overly posh sport in Melbourne. We aren't great at ensuring opportunities aren't wasted on mediocre talents that have benefited from years of development at the expense of genuine talents that don't make it into the system. This will always happen, but it probably happens a little too much in our game.

If you think every talented kid from a poor background gets a scholarship to a private school, you're kidding yourself. Likewise, you are kidding yourself if you think there is some toff conspiracy against the riff raff.

I think any of us who have experience on both sides of the tracks and played or were around multiple clubs know a few genuine talents that never got a real opportunity to shine and a few well connected spuds that it was incredible to see make it on to AFL lists before they inevitably failed. Obviously this isn't evidence of a major class divide, it's just an inefficient allocation of resources.

I think we could all come up with examples that fit that description, I remember my first junior club which happened to be in Melbourne's zone, we had one player that as a young kid had all the skills you could ask for, and was super quick, running the 100 meters in something like 15 or 16 seconds (this is under 10s & under 12s) yet never made it too AFL level. As I changed schools, I don't know whatever happened to him

 

[The_Reaper]

Football, volleyball, bagpipes....where will it end?

http://www.theage.com.au/news/natio...oaching-scandal/2006/08/25/1156012741415.html

This is why in WA the private schools can't (openly) give scholarships for their football/cricket teams etc. Though you have a number of surprisingly talented young footballers on music scholarships or what not

Think of cricket, I'm sure in the Northern states you get a combination of public and private schoolers, just like footy in the south.

Ironically Australian cricket is overwhelming government schooled kids.

Which is mainly because of NSW to be fair (WA cricket is pretty dominated by the private schools).

When Cowan made his debut it was pointed out how massive an oddity - as an Australian test cricketer from a Sydney Private school - he was.

 

[Ando727]

Is that legit?

Wow

It's basically the text from most footy club songs.

 

[FootyGeek]

Listening to Max Gawn on 360 tonight and he mentioned how only 4-5 players on the Melbourne list came from a public school and he believes the majority of footballers are from private schools due to the fact they are tought early how to work hard, discipline etc.
I thought it to be quite an interesting observation and want to know the rest of BigFooty's thoughts.

If this is an accurate summary of Gawn's thoughts on this particular matter then I feel sorry for him. Because if this is how he sees the world he is an ignorant fool.

If this is true he only perpetuates the Melbourne Football Club stereotype of segregation and privilege.

Hopefully the OP is winding us all up and this feudal sentiment does not still permeate the halls of our so called great institutions.

 

[Adelaide Docker]

Ironically Australian cricket is overwhelming government schooled kids.

Which is mainly because of NSW to be fair (WA cricket is pretty dominated by the private schools).

When Cowan made his debut it was pointed out how massive an oddity - as an Australian test cricketer from a Sydney Private school - he was.

Yes, but at junior and club level I'm sure you get a mix.

 

[McCrann]

Some public students I know don't even have foxtel

There's no way that's right. Foxtel is in every household in Australia which is precisely why they're now struggling for growth.

There is no one without a TV these days who doesn't have Foxtel.

 

[McCrann]

"We are Scotch Collegians all and we rally at the call, like our fathers and our brothers used to do... For we dearly love the name and will ever guard the fame, of the school that wears the Cardinal, Gold & Blue!"

Let's be honest though Scotchie _ _ _ _ _ _ s have no balls. do daa. do daa etc. etc.

Cyril Rioli is a prime example of a born and bred Scotchie isn't he?

Sure.

 

[McCrann]

Interesting enough topic. I was lucky enough to go to a public school with both a special interest sports and music program, which has produced many talented individuals, including two ex afl captains. Melbourne does seem to have a lot of very large private schools with big sporting programs, so presumably Gawn is talking from a Melbourne perspective.

It's interesting because Gawn seems to have persisted with the misnomer of "public" v "private".

In Melbourne, schools like Grammar, Scotch, Xavier, Wesley etc. are part of the Association of Public Schools. These schools are self-identified public schools.

 

[McCrann]

I think we could all come up with examples that fit that description, I remember my first junior club which happened to be in Melbourne's zone, we had one player that as a young kid had all the skills you could ask for, and was super quick, running the 100 meters in something like 15 or 16 seconds (this is under 10s & under 12s) yet never made it too AFL level. As I changed schools, I don't know whatever happened to him

I could run the 100m in 13s flat in primary school (10-11) and I certainly wasn't considered that fast. Top dozen maybe in my year.

 

[Bombermania]

I could run the 100m in 13s flat in primary school (10-11) and I certainly wasn't considered that fast. Top dozen maybe in my year.

I was going on memory so maybe he was quicker but there was one thing I can say with certainty, I was no where near that quick

 

[Arc1]

I think we could all come up with examples that fit that description, I remember my first junior club which happened to be in Melbourne's zone, we had one player that as a young kid had all the skills you could ask for, and was super quick, running the 100 meters in something like 15 or 16 seconds (this is under 10s & under 12s) yet never made it too AFL level. As I changed schools, I don't know whatever happened to him

He's in jail

 

[Bomberboyokay]

There needs to be a distinction made between the APS rich elite private schools (which are well represented in the AFL) and the many more unremarkable private schools that took off in the 1990s located in every middle-outer suburb that aren't much different to public schools besides the ability to kick out chronic troublemakers.

In either case, to say private school kids "work harder" is an oversimplification or wrong. People from privileged backgrounds tend to have better opportunities and outcomes. A good footballer at ******* Xavier going to get a lot more support and resources than a good footballer going to Sunshine Secondary. AFL player stocks reflecting this is not remarkable.

 

[Bomberboyokay]

Because all private school students come from rich families, right?

When we're talking about the 50-100 elite schools that dominate the upper echelons of Australian society, * yes the parents money mattered.

The Catholic College in Lilydale or Emu Plains or Midland or Unremarkable Part Of Adelaide, not so much.