News Pyke Gone

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jenny61_99 said:
How do we let the players know that they need to take responsibility too without making it worse?
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There is an art to criticism. The sandwich method, as well as how you word it is pretty important.
 
Mr_Moogle said:
Interesting but it makes you wonder why fans often still call for a Blight-style hard case to take over the senior coaching role. If negative feedback is a deal breaker for the players, a coach like that wouldn't last two seconds.
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Same as most also forget one of Crows worse years in the AFL, 1999.
 

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Golumless said:
There is an art to criticism. The sandwich method, as well as how you word it is pretty important.
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The trick used to be that you wrap it up in warm fuzzies... “I really love how you....” “but you need to work on...”. Not sure that work anymore.
 
jenny61_99 said:
The trick used to be that you wrap it up in warm fuzzies... “I really love how you....” “but you need to work on...”. Not sure that work anymore.
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Well that's effectively the sandwich method, focus on a positive, then a negative, then back to a positive.

It works if done correctly, or if the praise hasn't become meaningless.
 
jenny61_99 said:
The trick used to be that you wrap it up in warm fuzzies... “I really love how you....” “but you need to work on...”. Not sure that work anymore.
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I think it's really a matter of trust. If the players fully trust their coach, they will take the critcism the right way. You think working for Clarko would be all smiles and rainbows? I bet he tears shreds off his players sometimes.
 
jenny61_99 said:
The trick used to be that you wrap it up in warm fuzzies... “I really love how you....” “but you need to work on...”. Not sure that work anymore.
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Golumless said:
Well that's effectively the sandwich method, focus on a positive, then a negative, then back to a positive.

It works if done correctly, or if the praise hasn't become meaningless.
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More commonly referred to as delivering a "s**t" sandwich
 
DJ75 said:
  • As a result Pyke had definitely lost the playing group.
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Unfortunately our playing group are bit like car keys with the regularity they are lost.

I suspect Pyke probably demanded more than they were willing to give in terms of self-awareness and responsibility.
 
Mr_Moogle said:
Interesting but it makes you wonder why fans often still call for a Blight-style hard case to take over the senior coaching role. If negative feedback is a deal breaker for the players, a coach like that wouldn't last two seconds.
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Spot on. Clarko wouldn't last 2 years. He'd walk too.
 
Mr_Moogle said:
I think it's really a matter of trust. If the players fully trust their coach, they will take the critcism the right way. You think working for Clarko would be all smiles and rainbows? I bet he tears shreds off his players sometimes.
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I suspect the difference is the culture around Clarkson. Our 'back them in' culture logically leads to diminished accountability and a sense of entitlement.

He wouldn't succeed here unless sweeping changes were made through the organisation to instate a culture of responsibility within which he could operate. Unfortunately Hawthorn's culture is a million miles ahead of ours, there are expectations on performance from the chairman down.
 
Mr_Moogle said:
I think it's really a matter of trust. If the players fully trust their coach, they will take the critcism the right way. You think working for Clarko would be all smiles and rainbows? I bet he tears shreds off his players sometimes.
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Clarko can work soley on reputation now.
He wouldn't be required to sugar coat anything.

This is what it takes
 
jenny61_99 said:
Lord you are a little ray of sunshine aren't you?
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Would you prefer people lie?

I honestly don’t think we have hit rock bottom. Until a few more go, Chapman, Burton and Ricciuto go we can not move forward.

The small clique will continue to control how the narrative is written and we will continue to follow a broken path. Sorry for the negativity but we have not seen anything yet.
 

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Messages need to be consistent
Messages must be consistent across the whole group
Messages need to be delivered often
Messages can be delivered as a sandwich but understand you dont need to build a Dagwood - bread , butter, s**t , cheese.
Messages must be simple.
Your leaders MUST understand and accept the message and be able to communicate the same message to the players

Build the trust and you can take away the butter or cheese

Clarkson is a hardnut but also a teacher , once he lays that foundational message he can be as blunt or hard as he chooses.

As noted by jackster83 you move players in and out of your system. Clarkson does this so often the change rooms have revolving doors. Identify your core and protect them

BUT the Football Director and the Board need to also be on the same page with the same message.
 
Mr_Moogle said:
Interesting but it makes you wonder why fans often still call for a Blight-style hard case to take over the senior coaching role. If negative feedback is a deal breaker for the players, a coach like that wouldn't last two seconds.
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I don't believe the major issues were around performance feedback based on games. My understanding is that the feedback was of a more personal nature and well and truly overstepped the mark on what would normally have been discussed by a coach.
 
jenny61_99 said:
The trick used to be that you wrap it up in warm fuzzies... “I really love how you....” “but you need to work on...”. Not sure that work anymore.
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The best mentor I ever had was short, sharp and to the point but never vindictive. He had a reputation as a headkicker within his industry but he was actually just brutally honest.

I always knew where I stood, he never played games and he would never say anything about me, my work or how I was performing to other people that he wouldn’t be willing to say to my face.

Above all else it was never personal.

He certainly didn’t shy away from confrontation if I did something which deviated from his expectations and I’d get pulled back on track quickly (or if I couldn’t then someone else would take my place).

My point is you don’t need to mollycoddle, speak in cliches and soften your approach to deliver a message and get results. To be honest I don’t think that’s appropriate for a football club.

There’s enough support mechanisms internally within that environment to support and cater to the different personalities and their needs that
the head coach can and should be the short sharp communicator who is able to single out when something or someone doesn’t meet his expectations.

As long as he’s consistent with his message and treats everyone with the same approach from the captain through to the rookie listers then it’s actually harder to get yourself into trouble.

Have a plan
Be consistent
Be transparent
Set expectations
Have key measurables and monitor them regularly
Be adaptable and acknowledge when something doesn’t work
Review, rinse and repeat

It’s a philosophy that stands the test of time across a wide variety of industries.

It’s also the blueprint for Clarkson’s success.
 
Mr_Moogle said:
I honestly don't know. I guess at the end of the day you need a coach that can criticise players without also demotivating them. Pyke clearly failed in that area.
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Respect is critical. Blaming the player’s mental toughness wouldn’t have gone down too well. They were on the ground, they know more than anyone that they simply couldn’t keep up for the full 4 quarters. The coaches taking no responsibility would have lost them a lot of respect. It’s relatively easy to cop criticism when warranted from someon that you respect. Pyke lost that and there went the player’s ability to accept what he was saying.
 
DJ75 said:
So I managed to speak with a couple of players over the weekend. I didn't ask about the review itself (anytime it was hinted at they shut up shop quickly), but had a bit of a discussion about Pyke leaving.
The players thoughts;
  • Was not surprised Pyke left. They felt like 'something had to happen'
  • Thought Pyke was a good guy and very intelligent, however
  • Said Pyke made comments to individuals and groups of players that were not taken well (My belief but not directly said was that this was part of the camp)
  • Pyke admitted mistakes with this and asked for forgiveness, but the cut was so deep with some they could not forget. A bit of a feeling that the forgiveness part wasn't 100% genuine.
  • As a result Pyke had definitely lost the playing group.

My take is that the following happened;
  1. Post grand final feedback was angry and pointed
  2. During the camp there were sessions about being speaking freely etc... and some individual comments were insulting
  3. Individual players and be extension, some groups, were upset at what was said. This was relayed to the club
  4. This festered through start of 2018, eventually came to a head when CM re-appeared at the club.
  5. Pyke eventually admitted it was a mistake, but damage was done
  6. Promises were made about changing the way people were dealt with through 2018
  7. By midyear 2019 it was back to normal and changes and promises were not kept.
  8. Playing group lost faith in Pyke.

Pretty sad really. Makes Burton and co's defence of the camp (which remains today) utterly unbelievable.
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Firstly, not sure about anyone else but this is a major issue - you promise something and fail to deliver - you lose peoples trust and therefore anything you promise from that moment is worthless. Don't ever promise something that you can't or more importantly won't deliver.

Secondly, I think most individuals can take criticism as long as it is constructive, consistent across the playing group and not viewed as vindicative.
 
1970crow said:
Respect is critical. Blaming the player’s mental toughness wouldn’t have gone down too well. They were on the ground, they know more than anyone that they simply couldn’t keep up for the full 4 quarters. The coaches taking no responsibility would have lost them a lot of respect. It’s relatively easy to cop criticism when warranted from someon that you respect. Pyke lost that and there went the player’s ability to accept what he was saying.
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If those rumours are true, I can't really blame the players for not respecting Pyke. It would be wrong to purely blame the playing group for 2017. Not only did we not look motivated, we lost the game on a strategic level too. We weren't mobile enough to go with them anywhere around the ground. This was partly due to injury but it was exacerbated by not having appropriate replacements. I mean if your whole game plan hinges on a line breaking, long kicking player like Smith, it would make sense to have a couple of other guys with these qualities.

DJ75 said:
I don't believe the major issues were around performance feedback based on games. My understanding is that the feedback was of a more personal nature and well and truly overstepped the mark on what would normally have been discussed by a coach.
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You would think given his background, he would know better. If Pyke overstepped the mark that way, maybe he was drinking a little too much of that CM kool-aid. I mean he always struck me as cynical, pragmatic type and not the kind of person who would want to delve into his player's psychology.
 
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1970crow said:
I didn’t backpedal. And it did happen, Brad’s management was approached by St Kilda. They’ve then approached the AFC seeking an extension despite the extra year still to run. I know you don’t read or think good, but I’ve been entirely consistent.
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We all know it happened. Jesus wept - I posted the link !

You equated that to Pykes resignation. He’d been saying it for over a month

DD4A9733-8202-4F2C-A5FA-012D692817C0.jpeg


Consistent ? Yes
Consistently wrong
www.murrayvalleystandard.com.au

Brad Crouch to stay with Crows: brother

Midfielder Brad Crouch has no plans to break his AFL contract with Adelaide, his brother and teammate Matt...
www.murrayvalleystandard.com.au www.murrayvalleystandard.com.au
August 6th Crouch saying he wants to stay

Now
Give it a rest
You’re boring
 
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