Opinion Q&A with Tim Lawrence - Lachie's manager - chapter 2

[Arcassius]

Tim says -

I know there have been a couple of questions around the media and some of the stories that came out so instead of answering them individually I might just do it in one hit.

The media is an integral part of the game. The game receives massive $ for the broadcast rights and fans love getting everything fed to them through different mediums. It creates the hype and ultimately helps turn the wheel to keep the game at the forefront of people’s thoughts.

So I was amazed at how poor some journalists are that get paid to report on the game. It is a blight on their industry and for the good journo’s who actually make the effort to investigate, make the calls, draw on their experiences and then write articles that actually have some factual basis (through research) with a smattering of rumour and experienced guessing around the topic.

You have one journalist in the print media over there who obviously doesn’t get a phone allowance because whilst he was happy to write some baseless, unfounded and incorrect stories at no time did he bother to pick up the phone and actually ask some questions. I probably wouldn’t have told him anything sexy (the truth never is) but at least he could then have written something with some factual correctness. He isn’t a journalist, he is just someone who gets paid to write fantasy stories in one of your state papers. J K Rowling should start looking over her shoulder because there is a new kid in town.

One journo called me (not for the first time) and then quoted me saying things I had never actually said… I had been warned about him and now I know why.

Some stories made us laugh and some stories made Lachie angry - especially the one about there being a problem between himself and the football department. It was utter crap (he didn’t call to verify either) and I received a few expletive filled text messages from Lach on what he wanted to do to him.

A lot, however, did ring and ask questions and reported truthfully (as always with a little bit of rumour milling but that’s cool) and they were good. You just learn who you are ok to talk too and then other journo’s who’s phone calls you will ignore in the future. It was important to just keep talking to each other and keep things clear and unemotional.

In regards to the question about the rumours causing angst between player and club (Okinakashi) , whilst we didn’t have that with Lachie’s negotiation (because of our transparent plan and communication) I have in the past called a football manager of a club to assure them that some media speculation was not being fuelled by us nor had we even been involved in it. This wasn’t during a contract process and was on the back of some random stories around the trade period.

I hope you found some solace in this response, clivenator26 ?

 

[holy diver]

Cheers Tim.

 

[scon]

J K Rowling should start looking over her shoulder because there is a new kid in town.

She can write a coherent sentence,so different genre.

 

[MadDocker]

"It is understood after recent in depth discussions with Neales management that Kim Hagdorn is indeed a lying flog. Kim is believed to have been involved in a series of blatantly false reports and rumours are rife of a split between him and the rest of the AFL media. Bigfooty posters understand that there is a number of Perth based AFL media representatives waiting to spit in Hagdorns lunch and that we should see resolution of this before seasons end. More to come."

 

[BettercallSaul]

Thank you Tim and Arcassiuss great stuff.
Tim if you are interested in managing a old, bald, fat bloke with no discernible talent please let me know. Be quick there are other offers.*







* May not be true.

 

[Halfbaked]

To be fair to hagdorn, it's not his fault he was born with a low IQ. I just find his s**t sad now. I don't get pissed off anymore.
However I do believe in karma, what comes a round gos around.

 

[Halfbaked]

I would also like to thank Arcassius and Tim. A top effort.

 

[Marty Whitelaw]

Thanks guys, this is a really fascinating thread!

 

[Purple dynamite]

This is great to give us insight. I gives me faith that if lachie believes in the rebuild plan, we have a good plan in placeplace for future success.

 

[FUS_RO_DAH]

Unique Name To give you some insight into how he thinks, there was one club who showed some interest early in the piece. Now, whilst we didn’t discuss other clubs at any stage, we are obligated to tell him if a club asks about him so he is informed (part of the rules and regulations for accredited agents). When I told him who the club was, his very quick reply was “F*ck them. They didn’t want to know me in my draft year (they hadn’t interviewed him) so why would I want to play for them now??” I cracked up laughing because I knew exactly what he was going to say and maybe yes, loyalty is important to him also.

F***ing bravo.

 

[theGav56]

I would also like to thank Arcassius and Tim. A top effort.

Yes a classy insight into the workings of such a negotiation and deserving of wider exposure.

 

[electricfeel]

This is fantastic, thanks so much Tim and Arcassius for the amazing insight.

Looks like we can confirm (as if we didn't already know) that Kim Hackdorn is an utter piece of s**t. How does this guy continue getting paid for the tripe he writes?

 

[Allikat]

Thank you so much Tim & Arcassius for doing this again. We're really really lucky on the Freo board to get this kind of access.

I wanted to know, obviously the club's start to the year was a big surprise to just about everyone, but did Lachie's form come to a surprise to himself, his management and/or the club. He's stepped up massively this year and his form has been a real shining light for the supporters. Did his big jump in form affect any of the negotiations?

 

[Mudd]

Brad also showed us the newly formed 4 Year Recruiting and Trading plan for the club

 

[schnoods]

Thanks to Tim and Arcassius again for this rare look into player management in football.

I would like to thank Tim, Lachie and Fremantle FC for the way the whole re-signing and negotiations was professional and discreet. Everything seemed to have went like clockwork and as the speculation in the media had rose, the trump card was played and the news broke at probably the right time, it was an anti climax to all other clubs that showed interest and put out the fire before it realistically started.


One question I would like to know, With the speculation and public exposure with trading in regards with Josh Jenkins this season, Lin Jong having tours with the Pies and Dustin Martin having tours at GWS in previous seasons, How come Fremantle and Lachie came to a mutual understanding and a contract extension so easily with minimal rumours getting around? Was there alot of Journalists who prodded around finding nothing other than brickwalls or was there just nothing to report on until the deals was done? Also the news that Lachie had re-signed was announced by the club first, how hard/easy was it to keep the big news under wraps?

 

[freoextra]

Tim, do you know of any current players that have expressed a desire to play for Freo next year. Names not required of course but could you advise if experienced or wa player etc.

 

[E Shed]

I find it reassuring to have it confirmed that I don't have to give the slightest creedence to most of the nonsense in The West.

 

[Arcassius]

AAACockburn asked - Does Lachie think Fyfe is really a dead set Flog.

Tim says -

I will say from the outset that I have never met Nat in any capacity. However, I do have regular conversations with people who do work very closely with him both from within the club and outside of the club and we have spoken at length about Nat and his current engagement with the club and what he is like as a person.

For starters, whilst I am sure your question was tongue in cheek, I don’t think it’s ever fair to denigrate a person – especially when they can’t defend themselves. I’m not here to lecture because that’s not what I am here for but maybe just consider he is someone’s son, cousin, brother (maybe?) and friend. It’s never nice for friends and family members to see or hear people taking pot shots from behind the safety of a blog site or social media. I’m sure it would hurt or anger you if it as one of your own being targeted.

Nat is a rare beast. What I can tell you is that the ultra-good players – the elite, the one every 10 years types – are the most competitive, driven and obsessive people you could meet. They are usually very self-obsessed – not because they ‘love themselves’ but because they invest so much into themselves so they can be the very best they can be… which I am sure no Fremantle supporter worries about when Nat Fyfe is dominating the opposition on match day. They are obsessed with themselves. With their preparation, planning, performance, rehabilitation, what they eat and drink and so on and so on and so on and this self-obsession, well, it’s what makes them so bloody good. It’s also what makes them so different to you and me and the rest of the Joe and Jane Publics.

You’re not going to see Fyfey organising the end of season drinks or planning the next player BBQ or dancing on the Footy Show Player’s Review. It’s not his thing. It’s not his thing because it’s not his branding (he is very, very business and branding savvy which is very, very clever) but because of his character traits (being better than the best he can be) it’s not really his thing either.

The high achievers in the athlete world aren’t like us. We can’t expect and demand them to be different to us on the playing field but then expect them to suddenly change and be like ‘everyone else’ they need to be for the other 6 days of the week. That’s insane. Do you want him eating pies, drinking Carlton Mid and hurling abuse from the Domain stands or winning Brownlow’s, taking grabs and doing the unbelievable week in and week out on the Domain playing surface?

One of the character flaws with the highly elite and obsessed is that they sometimes don’t always assimilate with their counterparts as much as others. It doesn’t mean they dislike their team mates nor their team mates dislike them and it doesn’t mean they are unapproachable or are only solely concerned about themselves… nor are they ‘flogs’. It’s just the way they are.

Nat has been great for Lachie over the last 18 months. They have caught up for coffee meets to talk about footy, life away from football; things Nat has learnt and that he is passing onto Lachie. Without wishing to sound uncomplimentary to any of the Freo development or coaching staff, I think Lach learns more now from Fyfey than he does from nearly anyone else in the club. Just those little things – ultra small things at times, which will make Lachie get better. Those little things you and I don’t see or think of – those little things only the truly high achievers see without looking for them. He is an open book for the developing players (and no doubt some of the older!) at the club.

I do know when he got injured Nat and JD caught up and Nat wanted to make sure he was involved with the club as much as he could. While he was out of action and with the club struggling on field. JD said it was worrying him very much and he (Nat) knew that it was all hands on deck to help with whatever was needed to be done around the club.

So, as part of his development with further engagement (and let’s face it, a way for him to pass on his knowledge) we now see him sitting in the coaches box, talking to the players during the breaks and being actively involved in the football department. He doesn’t need to do it. He isn’t paid to do it nor does his contract require him to do what he is doing.

He is doing it because he wants to get better. He is doing it because he wants his team mates – especially the younger ones – to get better. He is doing it because he wants his beloved Fremantle FC to get better.

He might be different to you and me (which, let’s face it probably isn’t a bad thing) but he isn’t a flog. Flogs don’t do what Nat Fyfe is doing at 24 years of age.

 

[Arcassius]

Clems Knee asked - According to his SEN interview, Lachie went to Ross Lyon and to tell him he was on board before his management team of his decision. Did or could that have compromised negotiations between Stride and Fremantle FC?

Tim says -

Bloody oath it could have!! However, whilst Lachie has been 100% truthful in what he has said, the situation at the time wasn’t exactly as what it seemed or, perhaps, was portrayed.

To be honest, Lachie has never actually said “I am staying at Fremantle”….. once you finish scratching your heads, I will carry on….

Lachie and I were in contact on an almost daily basis (we generally are regardless) and the decision and pathway was fairly organic.. as each day passed, as each bit of information was assessed, as each discussion about those 5 key objectives was had, we both knew where it was heading. Then as negotiations started and we discussed them we would work together (with JD of course) to set our next plan of attack and offer so Lachie was involved every step of the way.

So, we didn’t need to say “Right, what are you going to do”, because we all already knew what was going to happen. It had been growing for a number of weeks by that stage and wasn’t based on one conversation or point in time.

 

[AAACockburn]

AAACockburn asked - Does Lachie think Fyfe is really a dead set Flog.

Tim says -

I will say from the outset that I have never met Nat in any capacity. However, I do have regular conversations with people who do work very closely with him both from within the club and outside of the club and we have spoken at length about Nat and his current engagement with the club and what he is like as a person.

For starters, whilst I am sure your question was tongue in cheek, I don’t think it’s ever fair to denigrate a person – especially when they can’t defend themselves. I’m not here to lecture because that’s not what I am here for but maybe just consider he is someone’s son, cousin, brother (maybe?) and friend. It’s never nice for friends and family members to see or hear people taking pot shots from behind the safety of a blog site or social media. I’m sure it would hurt or anger you if it as one of your own being targeted.

Nat is a rare beast. What I can tell you is that the ultra-good players – the elite, the one every 10 years types – are the most competitive, driven and obsessive people you could meet. They are usually very self-obsessed – not because they ‘love themselves’ but because they invest so much into themselves so they can be the very best they can be… which I am sure no Fremantle supporter worries about when Nat Fyfe is dominating the opposition on match day. They are obsessed with themselves. With their preparation, planning, performance, rehabilitation, what they eat and drink and so on and so on and so on and this self-obsession, well, it’s what makes them so bloody good. It’s also what makes them so different to you and me and the rest of the Joe and Jane Publics.

You’re not going to see Fyfey organising the end of season drinks or planning the next player BBQ or dancing on the Footy Show Player’s Review. It’s not his thing. It’s not his thing because it’s not his branding (he is very, very business and branding savvy which is very, very clever) but because of his character traits (being better than the best he can be) it’s not really his thing either.

The high achievers in the athlete world aren’t like us. We can’t expect and demand them to be different to us on the playing field but then expect them to suddenly change and be like ‘everyone else’ they need to be for the other 6 days of the week. That’s insane. Do you want him eating pies, drinking Carlton Mid and hurling abuse from the Domain stands or winning Brownlow’s, taking grabs and doing the unbelievable week in and week out on the Domain playing surface?

One of the character flaws with the highly elite and obsessed is that they sometimes don’t always assimilate with their counterparts as much as others. It doesn’t mean they dislike their team mates nor their team mates dislike them and it doesn’t mean they are unapproachable or are only solely concerned about themselves… nor are they ‘flogs’. It’s just the way they are.

Nat has been great for Lachie over the last 18 months. They have caught up for coffee meets to talk about footy, life away from football; things Nat has learnt and that he is passing onto Lachie. Without wishing to sound uncomplimentary to any of the Freo development or coaching staff, I think Lach learns more now from Fyfey than he does from nearly anyone else in the club. Just those little things – ultra small things at times, which will make Lachie get better. Those little things you and I don’t see or think of – those little things only the truly high achievers see without looking for them. He is an open book for the developing players (and no doubt some of the older!) at the club.

I do know when he got injured Nat and JD caught up and Nat wanted to make sure he was involved with the club as much as he could. While he was out of action and with the club struggling on field. JD said it was worrying him very much and he (Nat) knew that it was all hands on deck to help with whatever was needed to be done around the club.

So, as part of his development with further engagement (and let’s face it, a way for him to pass on his knowledge) we now see him sitting in the coaches box, talking to the players during the breaks and being actively involved in the football department. He doesn’t need to do it. He isn’t paid to do it nor does his contract require him to do what he is doing.

He is doing it because he wants to get better. He is doing it because he wants his team mates – especially the younger ones – to get better. He is doing it because he wants his beloved Fremantle FC to get better.

He might be different to you and me (which, let’s face it probably isn’t a bad thing) but he isn’t a flog. Flogs don’t do what Nat Fyfe is doing at 24 years of age.

Well written and thank you for your reply. Yes my post was tongue and cheek and rather blunt, to say the least.
I should have worded it differently. Thank you for taking the time to reply. Your response as always was well thought out and answered a lot of questions.

We all know Fyfe is a champion player and we all love watching him on the field and at the age of 24, it definitely takes a different sort of person to achieve what he has.

 

[Arcassius]

Well written and thank you for your reply. Yes my post was tongue and cheek and rather blunt, to say the least.
I should have worded it differently. Thank you for taking the time to reply. Your response as always was well thought out and answered a lot of questions.

We all know Fyfe is a champion player and we all love watching him on the field and at the age of 24, it definitely takes a different sort of person to achieve what he has.

Personally - having seen The Chosen Few and the interviews with the captains, along with what's come out from RTB over the years, I believe that the captain doesn't need to be the most popular person. It needs to be the guy that best represents the values that the club aspires to, and the players respect.

RTB has said himself, that he's not there to be people's friends. I feel the same applies to captaincy. Knowing that the guy besides me will play through a broken leg for me - means more than whether he calls me up for a beer after the game. Pav himself has nothing on Barlow/Crowls/etc on being 'one of the boys' - even in his interview on The Chosen Few he was very polished and almost aloof. What he is, is a strong leader. And that is exactly what is needed. Someone who leads by example.

I think Fyfe may be captain as soon as next year, and probably in the next 2.

 

[Arcassius]

Seppo asked - Did Lachie squeeze any performance based KPI’s into the contract? And if so, what are the common types…

Tim says -

Seppo! My old twitter and insta mate!!

As I mentioned earlier, I won’t go into the structure of Lachie’s contract, however, I am happy to talk about a few different bonus clauses that are put into contracts.


Some of the more common ones include -

• B&F placings (as you suggested)
• Games played in the contract year (eg. player may get a bonus once say 12, 15 or 18 games are played)

Less common may be -

• Brownlow placings
• All Australian Selection
• Finals Games played
• Premierships

There are possibly others too of course.

Another common thing that can but into a player’s contract – if they receive both base and match payments – is the ability to earn a larger base after playing ‘X’ amount of games. Eg. It might be a 3 year deal and if the player plays a certain amount of games in the first 2 years, it may increase his base in the third year.

 

[UFO Tatsu]

Seppo asked - Did Lachie squeeze any performance based KPI’s into the contract? And if so, what are the common types…

Tim says -

Seppo! My old twitter and insta mate!!

As I mentioned earlier, I won’t go into the structure of Lachie’s contract, however, I am happy to talk about a few different bonus clauses that are put into contracts.


Some of the more common ones include -

• B&F placings (as you suggested)
• Games played in the contract year (eg. player may get a bonus once say 12, 15 or 18 games are played)

Less common may be -

• Brownlow placings
• All Australian Selection
• Finals Games played
• Premierships

There are possibly others too of course.

Another common thing that can but into a player’s contract – if they receive both base and match payments – is the ability to earn a larger base after playing ‘X’ amount of games. Eg. It might be a 3 year deal and if the player plays a certain amount of games in the first 2 years, it may increase his base in the third year.

FS bonuses?

 

[Okinakashi]

Hello Tim. Thankyou again.

I'd love to know some of the non football things players consider. You mentioned Lachie had 2 or 3 factors that weren't footy related.

Can you let us know what sort of things the players also consider (without being specific to Lachie or Freo nessecarily)?

 

[Arcassius]

theGav56 asked - I was interested to know about how the actual dollars get negotiated. A 5 minute method I have used and liked is; Step 1 - The employer names the highest salary they have available and the employee the lowest they would consider. If they overlap there is a basis for negotiation and we move to the fair salary step. If not the process is concluded.
Step 2 - At the same time each party has named what they consider a fair salary. The understanding is that the agreed salary will be the middle point between these two, and the process is concluded.


Tim says -

I tell you what, if we could use both of those models it would make things very easy!!

I don’t want to give away too many trade secrets but it pretty much goes like this:

1. It is agreed that either agent or club make the first offer
2. If it is the club who makes the first offer, the agent naturally wants more. If it was the agent who makes the first offer, generally the club wants to pay less. Nothing surprising there.
3. If the two parties aren’t too crazily far apart, generally each party takes turns giving or taking, backwards and forwards until everyone is happy.
4. If they are, or one party isn’t prepared to budge then that’s where problems can arise.
5. Often with the ‘bigger’ contracts, the club offers need to be approved by the club board before they can be presented - which can take time of course.

As I have mentioned previously, the key to it all is that both parties are realistic and have a good understanding of a players value. I have spoken to one club Football Manager who actually has said the agents with little experience or only have 1 or 2 clients generally shoot far, far too high (because they don’t understand values) and generally what happens, after 3-4 months the agent has come back to the club with their tail between their legs (because they have worked out no one else thinks their client is worth that amount either) and have agreed to an offer generally pretty close to the clubs original offer.

Where it can hurt their client is when the club pulls the original offer (which they have every right to do) and the because of the agent’s inexperience, the club comes back with a smaller offer than the original and the player has to take it because they know every other club has been scared off (by the original, inflated offer). That’s not a good result!

So your Step 2, is probably closest to how it works.