QAFL COLTS 2020

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Thommo 42

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 2, 2007
10,126
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I'll kick it with him, but to be fair, he's better off getting someone else to show him how to do it properly! (from what I've seen, they don't teach that at academies at all...)
 

Covertackle

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Yeah good question - obviously lots of variables attached as well but both anecdotally and from personal experience having coached numerous youth teams at varying levels plus senior footy at Div 1 standard I would say player #1 and this is only bc I think if the boy is still playing at 18 its bc he really loves the game despite not being allowed to play in the rep sides. I think the #2 kid will often take that kick in the guts as their first set back and often drop their bundle. Possibly playing only bc of those extrinsic rewards. Which will invariably be less and less as you move into senior footy. Seen this happen sooo many times. Is one of the issues with the academies is their "after sales" service with kids who dont get drafted or make the Allies / state teams. Is why club footy is so important as it hopefully is the net to capture the kid and bring him back up attitude wise.

Personally I wouldnt care too much if a kid played rep footy as a 12-15yr old. Only really starts to matter from U16 onwards after development (and even then only some) has occurred. Is why school footy has been pushed to U14 at a national level now - bc it doesnt matter as much. The academies want to be across the kids from 15-18.
Edit. May be construed the wrong way...

With the Academies; You are absolutely right about QLD kids vs VIC kids time with footy in hand during childhood. So one must find ways to get the boys a kick more often. The academies provide some of this. But importantly, they get to kick and mark with other boys who can kick and mark. Training for the 13yos is much better than at club level. They can all kick and catch. Also important is the exercise level of academy training. Sometimes they do train them hard. The sedentary lifestyles our kids lead, compared to our generation is a worry going forward. The academy pushes them physically. Science says this is a very good thing for them to go through before puberty. We are 'plastic'. Our bodies adapt to our environment. The more they do before 'the mould is set' at puberty, the better. The academies is a whole other subject. But im a fan for a few more reasons.

**Rep footy i can take or leave up to u16s. But i do think School rep footy is worth it for the 'footy journey' a boy and his Dad (or Mum, family) go through together, as its an opportunity for both to get some life lessons from, and help guide your boy (or Girl) through success, failure or whatever mongrel ball footy kicks at the kids during the carnivals.. This is perhaps a message to my younger self, to enjoy the journey more and keep junior footy in perspective. Its important to go through though also as a parent, as i have a better perspective now going forward, than I would have had if we had not been through so much together already with junior rep footy.

./
 
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smy1305

Premiership Player
Jan 27, 2011
4,713
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Buderim
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I would attach to this that I am a fan of kids playing out of age group if talented and physically developed. Not necessarily every weekend but enough to really test self.
I also think that being at club level teaches the very talented player a few personal characteristics that will be good to carry through to senior footy - leadership, consideration for "lesser" players, learning to share the footy (even if it means it doesnt go to someone who can use it well), community, club loyalty. My concern with (and I stress) some academy players is that they (and their parents) are always looking for what they feel is their own best interests and end up playing for 3-4 clubs by age 18. Never stands them in good stead and I cant remember the last Qld boy who did this and was drafted?
 

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Still Me

All Australian
Feb 18, 2019
658
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My take on my own Qs.

Player (1). Has the confidence of seeing others do well. Hasn't had to handle frustration of failure. Hasnt tested himself against a larger group of better kids. If he is a 1 team player, most likely as he is good, the same kids around him for years look for him and kick the ball to him, making him look better and making him look for the ball less. He only 'believes' he should have made those rep sides. He didnt actually do it. There is room for doubt.
Another thing concerning player (1) is that he has been deprived of the 'footy journey'. Trips away with Dad (and perhaps mum and the family) to far flung places in the state even nationally. His experience is less for it. Also his "10,000 hours" are affected. Ie; less time with a footy etc.

Player (2). He has seen the best the state offers. He has competed against them. He knows in his heart (perhaps subconsciously) if he is good enough. His desire has been asked a question, and he also has this to prove. Player (2) may have had a more unsettled club experience as rep failures may have triggered club changes. He doesnt get the group of kids kicking to him. He has to find his own ball. He may upset the pecking order at the new club(s) and some kids dont like kicking him the ball at all. He is forced to find a way.

With the Academies; You are absolutely right about QLD kids vs VIC kids time with footy in hand during childhood. So one must find ways to get the boys a kick more often. The academies provide some of this. But importantly, they get to kick and mark with other boys who can kick and mark. Training for the 13yos is much better than at club level. They can all kick and catch. Also important is the exercise level of academy training. Sometimes they do train them hard. The sedentary lifestyles our kids lead, compared to our generation is a worry going forward. The academy pushes them physically. Science says this is a very good thing for them to go through before puberty. We are 'plastic'. Our bodies adapt to our environment. The more they do before 'the mould is set' at puberty, the better. The academies is a whole other subject. But im a fan for a few more reasons.

**Rep footy i can take or leave up to u16s. But i do think School rep footy is worth it for the 'footy journey' a boy and his Dad (or Mum, family) go through together, as its an opportunity for both to get some life lessons from, and help guide your boy (or Girl) through success, failure or whatever mongrel ball footy kicks at the kids during the carnivals.. This is perhaps a message to my younger self, to enjoy the journey more and keep junior footy in perspective. Its important to go through though also as a parent, as i have a better perspective now going forward, than I would have had if we had not been through so much together already with junior rep footy.

./
I probably agree with Thommo on this one. I see no reason for kids to be in any Academies until at least 16 years of age. Not sure you need people making assessments of kids at any age under 16.

I think if they enjoy their footy and play with their mates up until that age and get some reasonable coaching at club land along the way they normally are in good position to carve their career.

That way there should be no burnout factor or to much load On their bodies whilst growing.

Then in my opinion I would be trying to get some senior footy exposure between 16-18 if they are any chance of playing a better level by 18. Lot of good 18 year olds that kill them against their own age and when they take the step to senior footy they fail.
 

Covertackle

Premiership Player
Jan 26, 2012
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I would attach to this that I am a fan of kids playing out of age group if talented and physically developed. Not necessarily every weekend but enough to really test self.
I also think that being at club level teaches the very talented player a few personal characteristics that will be good to carry through to senior footy - leadership, consideration for "lesser" players, learning to share the footy (even if it means it doesnt go to someone who can use it well), community, club loyalty. My concern with (and I stress) some academy players is that they (and their parents) are always looking for what they feel is their own best interests and end up playing for 3-4 clubs by age 18. Never stands them in good stead and I cant remember the last Qld boy who did this and was drafted?
While it may be true no '3-4 club' kids ever drafted in QLD.. There are some pros for switching clubs. Exposure to different training methods. Playing in different levels of footy against greater and lower opposition (preferably ascending).

I'll bet there has been draftees from most if not all other states have been through 3-4 clubs. Perhaps QLD is the odd one out? I really dont see how being at just 1 club has the influence you suggest? I could name you a few clubs that it may be better not to stay at forever if getting drafted was the end goal? Agree with everything else you've said.
 

Lensen

You've ruined the act, GOB
Feb 23, 2003
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I would attach to this that I am a fan of kids playing out of age group if talented and physically developed. Not necessarily every weekend but enough to really test self.
I also think that being at club level teaches the very talented player a few personal characteristics that will be good to carry through to senior footy - leadership, consideration for "lesser" players, learning to share the footy (even if it means it doesnt go to someone who can use it well), community, club loyalty. My concern with (and I stress) some academy players is that they (and their parents) are always looking for what they feel is their own best interests and end up playing for 3-4 clubs by age 18. Never stands them in good stead and I cant remember the last Qld boy who did this and was drafted?
Where did Scotty Harding get drafted from? He was Alex Hills-Springwood-either Morningside or Mt Gravatt from memory
 

Covertackle

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yep - nearly 15yrs ago. Just goes to show that its not that common.
Once i thought about it, Didnt have to look too far.... Darling Downs' only 2 products.. Would you agree, fairly recent?

*(3) Wylie Buzza. Lockyer Valley u16 and some seniors games, DD Crows u18s at 17yo, MT Gravatt at 18yo. (Allies) Drafted
*(4?) Josh Smith. Came from somewhere, Played on the Downs a few years, went somewhere, Redland, got drafted.
* (3) Courtenay Dempsey, Manunda Hawks, Kenmore Bears, Morningside.

Perhaps you have been looking at this link below? All it seems to show is 'Destination clubs'. Some kids of course grew up with them. Some i suggest moved there to play at a higher level. Which goes towards the argument some played for at least 2 clubs. (3 clubs is a lot closer now) Rahn Hooper for example is an Ipswich CATS product. Had to play for the Ipswich Eagles to get a seniors game. Buzza had to go to MT Gravatt. Id suggest some on the list at link came from at least 1 other club to the bigger destination clubs, listed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_rules_football_in_Queensland

.
 
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smy1305

Premiership Player
Jan 27, 2011
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While it may be true no '3-4 club' kids ever drafted in QLD.. There are some pros for switching clubs. Exposure to different training methods. Playing in different levels of footy against greater and lower opposition (preferably ascending).

I'll bet there has been draftees from most if not all other states have been through 3-4 clubs. Perhaps QLD is the odd one out? I really dont see how being at just 1 club has the influence you suggest? I could name you a few clubs that it may be better not to stay at forever if getting drafted was the end goal? Agree with everything else you've said.
Yeah unless you are in a non AFL region such as DD or WB, CQ then I cant make a case for it tbh. I get movement to 1 club
Once i thought about it, Didnt have to look too far.... Darling Downs' only 2 products.. Would you agree, fairly recent?

*(3) Wylie Buzza. Lockyer Valley u16 and some seniors games, DD Crows u18s at 17yo, MT Gravatt at 18yo. (Allies) Drafted
*(4?) Josh Smith. Came from somewhere, Played on the Downs a few years, went somewhere, Redland, got drafted.
* (3) Courtenay Dempsey, Manunda Hawks, Kenmore Bears, Morningside.

Perhaps you have been looking at this link below? All it seems to show is 'Destination clubs'. Some kids of course grew up with them. Some i suggest moved there to play at a higher level. Which goes towards the argument some played for at least 2 clubs. (3 clubs is a lot closer now) Rahn Hooper for example is an Ipswich CATS product. Had to play for the Ipswich Eagles to get a seniors game. Buzza had to go to MT Gravatt. Id suggest some on the list at link came from at least 1 other club to the bigger destination clubs, listed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_rules_football_in_Queensland

.
Yeah I agree that those kids moving from non afl areas to afl areas definitely need to. Agree. Not sure Dempsey can be included. Bit hard to get drafted out of cairns... 😋
 

Covertackle

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community, club loyalty. My concern with (and I stress) some academy players is that they (and their parents) are always looking for what they feel is their own best interests and end up playing for 3-4 clubs by age 18. Never stands them in good stead and I cant remember the last Qld boy who did this and was drafted?
Hey SMY1305. Above was the premise for your argument.

To that Lensen replied 'Scott Harding' did. But you said "that was nearly 15 years ago". So Ive supplied recent examples of QLD kids who moved clubs based on the above premise. 'kids playing for 3-4 clubs, for 'their own best interests' by the time they are 18. And you say it doesn't count because they 'aren't from AFL areas' in QLD. Last time i looked, DD, Cairns etc, were still part of QLD.. You cant shift the posts when you have facts kicked against you.

Im satisfied enough to say; A kid CAN play for 3-4 or more different clubs and still get drafted. Above is evidence of it.
 
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Covertackle

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Im amazed an obviously small, mediocre athlete has achieved the success he has already. How long he can sustain that level of impact i have reservations. Rowell is an exception to the rule, that only comes around only so often. How often do you see someone so slow drafted who is also a small? 178cm and 75kg? Rarely?
Rowell poor bugger looks like he may be out for a while. All the talk of him being a 'bull', a 'Brownlow contender', etc, etc didnt do him any favours. To use a boxing analogy, he was a young welterweight prospect, who until recently was performing well against heavier Middleweight journeymen (NAB U18s etc). He was thrown in against some world class Middleweights and scored some impressive wins. He didnt do it by boxing but got in and mixed it up. That was never going to end well..

He played well in his 1st few games. He needed pulling aside and reminding him he was only 178cm and 75kg. Tell him to use this year as a learning year, look after himself, and forget all the 'Bull' and Brownlow talk. Besides his opponents being more experienced they were older, match tougher. His opposition is taller, heavier and faster, which equals greater foot pounds of energy, more stresses on his smaller frame.

I hope he is ok and just ends up a bit sore. It will be a cheap lesson if thats the case. Lets hope its not an Ablett type injury.
 

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smy1305

Premiership Player
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Hey SMY1305. Above was the premise for your argument.

To that Lensen replied 'Scott Harding' did. But you said "that was nearly 15 years ago". So Ive supplied recent examples of QLD kids who moved clubs based on the above premise. 'kids playing for 3-4 clubs, for 'their own best interests' by the time they are 18. And you say it doesn't count because they 'aren't from AFL areas' in QLD. Last time i looked, DD, Cairns etc, were still part of QLD.. You cant shift the posts when you have facts kicked against you.

Im satisfied enough to say; A kid CAN play for 3-4 or more different clubs and still get drafted. Above is evidence of it.

Yeah appreciatecwhat you arexsaying but my lens was on the se corner. Some of those examples are obviously notbkids moving Bc of so called better coaching or club but bc they have to! It’s like saying a kid in remote WA will get drafted from that club rather than going to Perth to play. Just can’t.

If you live in the seccorner and are a club jumper under the premise of better opportunities I’d say u r kidding yourself. And the draft history reflects this.
 

smy1305

Premiership Player
Jan 27, 2011
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Rowell poor bugger looks like he may be out for a while. All the talk of him being a 'bull', a 'Brownlow contender', etc, etc didnt do him any favours. To use a boxing analogy, he was a young welterweight prospect, who until recently was performing well against heavier Middleweight journeymen (NAB U18s etc). He was thrown in against some world class Middleweights and scored some impressive wins. He didnt do it by boxing but got in and mixed it up. That was never going to end well..

He played well in his 1st few games. He needed pulling aside and reminding him he was only 178cm and 75kg. Tell him to use this year as a learning year, look after himself, and forget all the 'Bull' and Brownlow talk. Besides his opponents being more experienced they were older, match tougher. His opposition is taller, heavier and faster, which equals greater foot pounds of energy, more stresses on his smaller frame.

I hope he is ok and just ends up a bit sore. It will be a cheap lesson if thats the case. Lets hope its not an Ablett type injury.
I would dispute that weight looking at him. I’d say easily 80+ kg with that arse and thighs.
Reckon he was jus5 unlucky and tackled by a guy not dissimilar
 

Covertackle

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If you live in the seccorner and are a club jumper under the premise of better opportunities I’d say u r kidding yourself. And the draft history reflects this.
Sorry mate, but doesn't Buzza come from the SEQ Corner? (Gatton) He left the LV club to go up the road to the DD crows for opportunity, then to MT Gravatt, for opportunity.

Anyway, the list of stories of those who DID, relating the stories of those who said they COULDNT, is long. If one doubts its possible to do anything from anywhere under any circumstance then they have never heard of Ramanujan..

(or even Marlion Pickett)

.
 
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Covertackle

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So anyway, where are we? Siders got a shock vs a team with literally half their u16s team in it! Labrador played well, but missed out on the chocolates by 10 points or something?

Any other reports?
 

NotQuiteJezza

Rookie
Jul 4, 2020
21
20
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Brisbane Lions
Colts 2019 Grand final rematch this week should be a beauty. I saw the Gorillas Colts game against Morningside. Some good young players getting about.
 

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