Qantas - the next waterfront?

Dry Rot

My hat is better than yours
Joined
Feb 21, 2002
Posts
36,402
Likes
8,338
Location
Dead Snow of Norway
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Thread starter #1
From the ABC site:

Monday, October 18, 2004. 6:09pm (AEST)


Qantas denies the workers are being secretly trained as strike breakers.

Qantas flight attendant talks deadlocked

There has been no progress in talks with Qantas over the hiring of flight attendants on short-term contracts, the Flight Attendants Association says.
The talks were ordered by the Industrial Relations Commission (IRC) and the association's Michael Mijatov says the union will seek another hearing.
He says Qantas is using the workers for its own gain.
"They're desperate to get jobs these people, and what they [Qantas] intend to do is actually terminate their employment and give it to people overseas," he said.
"I mean if Qantas is serious they should come out now and say that they'll give these people full-time work."
The Flight Attendants Association claims 300 new flight attendants employed recently are being trained to thwart any strike action over the Christmas period.
The airline denies the workers are being secretly trained as strike breakers.
Qantas executive general manager John Borghetti has rejected the Commissioner's description of the airline's dealings with the union as brief and unhelpful.
"Well, I think one has to look at the totality of the discussions that have been going on between us and the union," he said.
"There hasn't just been one letter, there have been numerous discussions, correspondence over a variety of issues and certainly it wasn't our intention to not continue those discussions.
"It was, in fact, the union that walked away and brought them to an end."
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

medusala

Hall of Famer
Joined
Aug 14, 2004
Posts
34,959
Likes
6,230
Location
Loftus Road
AFL Club
Hawthorn
#2
I wish someone would take a very large stick to the baggage handlers and the refuellers. In fact I cant see why airline employees couldnt be deemed to be in an essential services industry and thus have no right to strike.

Anyone remember how the ALP and the unions said that 25 container lifts an hour was impossible and just an excuse for Patrick to beat up its workers with?
 

Dry Rot

My hat is better than yours
Joined
Feb 21, 2002
Posts
36,402
Likes
8,338
Location
Dead Snow of Norway
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Thread starter #3
medusala said:
I wish someone would take a very large stick to the baggage handlers and the refuellers. In fact I cant see why airline employees couldnt be deemed to be in an essential services industry and thus have no right to strike.
Which industries are essential services and thus have no right to strike?
 

pazza

Hall of Famer
Joined
Feb 18, 2003
Posts
31,476
Likes
5,414
Location
Hoppers Crossing
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Liverpool
#6
Dry Rot said:
Are workers in those industries banned from striking?
Pretty sure.

Although with privatisation, the power workers in Victoria have considered striking, because of decisions undertaken by their employer re: bushfire prevention of power lines of all things!

Bracksy threatened to use the Essential Services Act and the workers backed off a bit.
 

dan warna

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Oct 13, 2003
Posts
20,557
Likes
190
Location
melbourne
AFL Club
St Kilda
#7
Qantas have been wanting to employ cheaper asian stewards for some time now.

just as much of the trans australian shipping is now crewed by o/s staff on 1/10 the wages and terrible conditions compared to australians.

but I guess we just don't care if folks die on ships as long as they are filipino or burmese, or indons...
 

dan warna

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Oct 13, 2003
Posts
20,557
Likes
190
Location
melbourne
AFL Club
St Kilda
#9
http://www.cbc.ca/disclosure/archives/030401_csl/australia.html
http://www.cbc.ca/disclosure/archives/030401_csl/flags.html
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/07/13/1026185123874.html
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/07/27/1027497431611.html
http://theage.com.au/articles/2004/07/20/1090089156889.html?from=storylhs

a couple of articles I googled.

An acquantance actually filled me in on the dire straits of those aussie seafarers. Also suggested that super had gone missing, and some they were tracking down their money through shelf company after shelf company and asset stripping to avoid paying entitlements, some accumulated over 30 years of employment.

All done with the support of the lib govt.

Also interesting that this seems to be an easy passage for terrorists to walk into Aus as crew from a Aussie flagged ship.
 

medusala

Hall of Famer
Joined
Aug 14, 2004
Posts
34,959
Likes
6,230
Location
Loftus Road
AFL Club
Hawthorn
#10
pazza said:
Power, Water, Gas...Essential services

Airlines an Essential Service? Ha.
I would classify transport as an essential service. The extent to which the rail unions hold the UK to ransom is unbelievable. The rail companies back down every time and the commuters face strikes on a regular basis. It costs the economy billions. You only have to ask tourist operators about the effect of the pilots strike to know how damaging it was.
 

- PC -

Hall of Famer
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Posts
30,268
Likes
23
Location
Where No Birds Fly
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Adelaide/Sturt/Wingfield
#11
Dry Rot said:
From the ABC site:

Monday, October 18, 2004. 6:09pm (AEST)


Qantas denies the workers are being secretly trained as strike breakers.

Qantas flight attendant talks deadlocked

There has been no progress in talks with Qantas over the hiring of flight attendants on short-term contracts, the Flight Attendants Association says.
The talks were ordered by the Industrial Relations Commission (IRC) and the association's Michael Mijatov says the union will seek another hearing.
He says Qantas is using the workers for its own gain.
"They're desperate to get jobs these people, and what they [Qantas] intend to do is actually terminate their employment and give it to people overseas," he said.
"I mean if Qantas is serious they should come out now and say that they'll give these people full-time work."
The Flight Attendants Association claims 300 new flight attendants employed recently are being trained to thwart any strike action over the Christmas period.
The airline denies the workers are being secretly trained as strike breakers.
Qantas executive general manager John Borghetti has rejected the Commissioner's description of the airline's dealings with the union as brief and unhelpful.
"Well, I think one has to look at the totality of the discussions that have been going on between us and the union," he said.
"There hasn't just been one letter, there have been numerous discussions, correspondence over a variety of issues and certainly it wasn't our intention to not continue those discussions.
"It was, in fact, the union that walked away and brought them to an end."

My partner went for a days interview/testing in September and was told it was to prevent Qantas staff from striking or if they did ...to be strike breakers

If successful the applicants were to be flown to Sydney for 2 weeks training. They conducted approximately 5 days of interviews with approx 25-30 each day just here in Perth

A 12 month contract was on offer..A few girls flew in from Bahrain to Perth to have interviews...they said it was less money but closer to home..(they were Aussie girls) My partner also said a lot of girls were from Ansett and also some from front desk areas.

If QANTAS say its not about strike breaking they are lying.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

campbell

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Dec 7, 2001
Posts
17,827
Likes
703
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
#12
A friend of mine is a trolly dolly for Qantas.She is longhaul based in Sydney.

Earlier this year, they were told we are making 1000 of your jobs to be based in London.The only problem is that you have to move yoursleves there to keep your jobs.


Thats plain nasty.Reclassifying jobs overseas.You are doing nothing worng, the company is making a ******** load of money.


Why are they allowed to do that in the 1st place.


Why are they allowed to hire strike breakers.

They have failed to talk with the union as told to by the IRC yesterday.I say throw the book at them.

Lying toerags.
 

medusala

Hall of Famer
Joined
Aug 14, 2004
Posts
34,959
Likes
6,230
Location
Loftus Road
AFL Club
Hawthorn
#13
campbell said:
A friend of mine is a trolly dolly for Qantas.She is longhaul based in Sydney.

Earlier this year, they were told we are making 1000 of your jobs to be based in London.The only problem is that you have to move yoursleves there to keep your jobs.


Thats plain nasty.Reclassifying jobs overseas.You are doing nothing worng, the company is making a ******** load of money.


Why are they allowed to do that in the 1st place.


Why are they allowed to hire strike breakers.

They have failed to talk with the union as told to by the IRC yesterday.I say throw the book at them.

Lying toerags.
So employers shouldnt be able to make there own hiring and firing decisions? Of course they should and neither should they have to consult unions. Look at the phenomenal productivity increases in places like the Pilbara and the waterfront. Note also the apalling productivity record on construction sites in Melbourne compared to elsewhere in Australia.

People who think in the same manner as you run Europe. You only have to look at their stubbornly high unemployment rates (other than the UK thanks to Thatcher) to see your way doesnt work. If bosses cant easily fire people then they are wary of hiring them. Its common sense to everyone but the unions, alp and democrats.

BTW not long ago Ansett made damn good money. Dont hear of many happy Ansett employees now do you? They got killed in part because their costs were way too high.
 
Joined
Sep 13, 2000
Posts
66,306
Likes
26,030
Location
Melbourne cricket ground. Australia
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Horks
#14
medusala said:
So employers shouldnt be able to make there own hiring and firing decisions? Of course they should and neither should they have to consult unions. Look at the phenomenal productivity increases in places like the Pilbara and the waterfront. Note also the apalling productivity record on construction sites in Melbourne compared to elsewhere in Australia.

People who think in the same manner as you run Europe. You only have to look at their stubbornly high unemployment rates (other than the UK thanks to Thatcher) to see your way doesnt work. If bosses cant easily fire people then they are wary of hiring them. Its common sense to everyone but the unions, alp and democrats.

BTW not long ago Ansett made damn good money. Dont hear of many happy Ansett employees now do you? They got killed in part because their costs were way too high.
Then how come they want to relocate to london, one of the most expensive places in the world.
 

medusala

Hall of Famer
Joined
Aug 14, 2004
Posts
34,959
Likes
6,230
Location
Loftus Road
AFL Club
Hawthorn
#15
Flight attendants in the UK get paid stuff all. Was talking to one the other day and she got less than 15k GBP. Given Heathrow is the busiest intl airport in the world, mabye it makes sense for them to have staff located in London, I dont know.
 

agitator

All Australian
Joined
Sep 28, 2004
Posts
795
Likes
0
Other Teams
salisbury serial killers
#16
those poofie flight attendants have had it too good for too long, always mincing up and down the isles with their wrists bent in a provocative manner.

it's about time these carpet munchers were taught a lesson and shown who was boss. we should not be held to ransom by these degenerates.
 

Leper

Premiership Player
Joined
Jul 2, 2004
Posts
3,285
Likes
517
Location
E106o44' S06o17'
AFL Club
Richmond
#17
Pessimistic said:
Then how come they want to relocate to london, one of the most expensive places in the world.
To avoid paying the exhorbitant costs of accomodating crew overnighting there for one.

Whatever the answer is, rest assured they'll have done the numbers on it.

Personally I'd rather fly Thai anyway - significantly cheaper (wouldn't be due to even lower staff costs would it union heads?) and you don't have that good ol' Aussie servce, like who has ever had a Qantas hostie come up to you and put your bag in the overhead locker for you?
 

Mr Q

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
May 27, 2002
Posts
10,984
Likes
29
Location
Wombling Free
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
East Perth
#18
medusala said:
I would classify transport as an essential service.
You know there *are* other ways to transport things other than by air. Anyway a strike at one airline is hardly going to completely halt all air transport around the nation which could be used in emergencies. You obviously don't remember the airline strike of 1989 - the world didn't actually end then despite much of the country being cut off from air travel.

If the entire transport industry was to go on strike simultaneously then you would have a reasonable argument. Your current argument is complete and utter bollocks.
 

Contra Mundum

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Aug 1, 2002
Posts
21,909
Likes
8,700
Location
North Melbourne
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
NMFC
#19
agitator said:
those poofie flight attendants have had it too good for too long, always mincing up and down the isles with their wrists bent in a provocative manner.

it's about time these carpet munchers were taught a lesson and shown who was boss. we should not be held to ransom by these degenerates.
God help you
 

Leper

Premiership Player
Joined
Jul 2, 2004
Posts
3,285
Likes
517
Location
E106o44' S06o17'
AFL Club
Richmond
#21
Pessimistic said:
Then how come they want to relocate to london, one of the most expensive places in the world.
Definitely accommodation.

Say you are an airline flying from Australia to London via Bangkok and return, a total of 4 long haul sectors.

You have to change crew after each sector, and have several options, the main ones being:

1. Hire Aussie staff for all four sectors. You therefore have to accommodate them in Bangkok twice and London once.

2. Hire Aussie staff for the first and last sectors; Brits for the London sectors. This way, you only have to accommodate them once each in Bangkok - which is also dirt cheap compared to London or Aus.

If you are basing (say) 1,000 staff in London (if Campbell's figure is correct), and would otherwise have to accommodate Aussies at (say) $200 a night (it's probably more than that with meals, etc) for 50% of the time (conservative also), the potential saving is 1,000 x $200 x 50% x 365 days = $36.5mill. Of course other factors like comparitive wages come into it, but trust you see my point.

Bottom line line is then a combination of increased competiveness (= lower fares = increased market sdhare = more customers = more flights = more jobs) and increased profitabilitiy (= job security).

Campbell said:
Thats plain nasty.Reclassifying jobs overseas.You are doing nothing worng, the company is making a ******** load of money.

Why are they allowed to do that in the 1st place.
Of course you union heads wouldn't see this bigger picture and just think "oh you nasty pasties are trying to screw us" and "we'll milk you for all we can because you're just a big nasty employer with a bottomless pit of money anyway" (Ansett who?).

Another option of course is to abandon the BKK-LHR-BKK leg altogether and give it to BA as a code share. That one would be really great for Qantas staff!!! Watch this space.
 

Pantsless

Premiership Player
Joined
Jun 13, 2003
Posts
3,969
Likes
36
Location
Auckland, New Zealand
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Storm, Arse, Victory
#23
Leper said:
To avoid paying the exhorbitant costs of accomodating crew overnighting there for one.

Whatever the answer is, rest assured they'll have done the numbers on it.

Personally I'd rather fly Thai anyway - significantly cheaper (wouldn't be due to even lower staff costs would it union heads?) and you don't have that good ol' Aussie servce, like who has ever had a Qantas hostie come up to you and put your bag in the overhead locker for you?
Couldn't agree more. Thai are the bomb! Great service, great food...Qantas are OK...BA are the worst ever. I once had to ask 7 times for a coke on a London - Istanbul flight.
 

pazza

Hall of Famer
Joined
Feb 18, 2003
Posts
31,476
Likes
5,414
Location
Hoppers Crossing
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Liverpool
#25
medusala said:
I would classify transport as an essential service. The extent to which the rail unions hold the UK to ransom is unbelievable. The rail companies back down every time and the commuters face strikes on a regular basis. It costs the economy billions. You only have to ask tourist operators about the effect of the pilots strike to know how damaging it was.
If it was publicly owned public transport, I'd agree with you completely..but, then we'd enter into the whole privatisation debate and have another 20 pages worth of heads being whacked over with baseball bats :D
 
Top Bottom