QLD Government commits funding for GC17 stadium

[RussellEbertHandball]

So the AFL will put in $50mil. If its from The AFL's Future Fund then where is it going to get the money from to subsidise the GC and WS teams who will need large hand outs, the GC in the first 5 years maybe 10 and the WS team for the first 10 years, probably first 20?

If the AFL goes and borrows the funds are the GC going to have to effectively pay back the loan, ie make the stadium deal less favourable and more like a Docklands set up? I assume the Qld government will charge a reasonable rent on the ground. Who knows how "clean" this stadium will be, but there will be some pretty high fixed costs associated with it.

I wouldn't be surprised if this deal means the WS team is delayed until 2015 the original date the AFL talked about getting a team into WS.

Then again unless the LNP match this and if they win who knows if this will go ahead. I assume it doesn't matter as this is an election promise and whilst the government is in caretaker mode it can't sign contracts to make commitments for a new government. So until the election is over and contracts are signed it isn't a done deal yet.

 

[iamfredsavage]

I don't know why people are proposing a stadium in Helensvale or Nerang. Carrara is about the equivalent distance from a train station as the Gabba is to South Bank station. I think there is a difference of about 500m, which doesn't mean much (since South Bank to Gabba is on a hill).

Carrara is a terrible stadium, but it is cheaper to upgrade an existing stadium than build an entirely new one less than 10km away. No Government would ever agree to a third stadium on the GC when Carrara is still in the state it is in.

The ground itself is fantastic! Even better than the Gabba. But the stands are shocking, and I imagine that's what will cost the money.

I am excited that the Qld gov have come to the party, the contracts will ensure that if the bid goes ahead the stadium will be built. The kind of development required for Carrara will give a boost to local workers in construction and engineering, so that will be good for the South East.

As far as parking/public transport is concerned, it will be easier to get to once the stadium is upgraded and there is an incentive to build the transport around it. Also given the vacant land around it (as opposed to the Gabba) the land could be converted into a multi level car park. Plus buses to and from Nerang Station should cater for all the Brisbane/South Gold Coast fans (once the southern GC stations are built in 2011 and 2012).

 

[damochandler]

Has the Labor party pledged the same?

bligh is from labor

 

[Rooface]

i am tipping the afl were wanting nearly all of the funding to come from the government.

I'm tipping the AFL will put in 100 million. Followed by a tweed heads team in 2022

 

[Exe Gesis]

I'm tipping the AFL will put in 100 million. Followed by a tweed heads team in 2022

I think Newcastle would be the next port of call for the AFL after WS.

 

[Rooface]

I think Newcastle would be the next port of call for the AFL after WS.

No surprise here.

 

[greennick]

So the AFL will put in $50mil. If its from The AFL's Future Fund then where is it going to get the money from to subsidise the GC and WS teams who will need large hand outs, the GC in the first 5 years maybe 10 and the WS team for the first 10 years, probably first 20?

I think the idea is the feds will put in some cash and the AFL the rest. You would think Kev could part with a measly $50m. We should just get Therese Rein to pay for it.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

I think the idea is the feds will put in some cash and the AFL the rest. You would think Kev could part with a measly $50m. We should just get Therese Rein to pay for it.

I think the feds have got their WC stadium reserve to worry about. If Australia win WC I'd expect the feds to throw $200mil each at Townsville, GC, Newcastle and Canberra rectangle stadiums. Then there are the Adelaide and Perth stadiums that will get funding as well as monies for minor upgrades to the existing FIFA approved or near FIFA approved other stadiums in the country.

The feds have to give their commitments to FFA re the WC bids to FIFA by May next year. I wouldn't expect more than about $10mil to be given to a new oval stadium on the GC by the feds at this stage.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

I think Newcastle would be the next port of call for the AFL after WS.

And I would expect Pakistani type terrorist attacks if Newcastle were even seriously considered by the AFL before Tassie got a guarantee for a licence.

 

[Exe Gesis]

And I would expect Pakistani type terrorist attacks if Newcastle were even seriously considered by the AFL before Tassie got a guarantee for a licence.

I agree for sure.
It should really be Tasmania in now as well as GC.
West Sydney is a pipe dream and wont work at all imo.
Sydney Swans are always on the tight-rope as is and that wont change for donkey's years.

But the order of expansion (in the AFL's eyes) would be GC, WS, Newc, with places like Cairns, NT, and ACT other areas of interest in the distant future. Somewhere between now and WS, Tasmania will enter for sure.

 

[Exe Gesis]

The problem with the AFL is that they see a population density and say, "Let's plonk an AFL team there." But that's not how it works. You need to invest time and money building a region's infrastructure and demand for a sport before anything, and that would take 10-20 years of effort. Especially in Australia where you have a far smaller populace and economy overall, far less density of population per square mile, and so many competing football codes. In the USA, for instance, it's all american football, with massive collegiate programs and infrastructure, that you CAN plonk a team in a 1.5 million city anywhere across the nation.

I'm surprised Paul Taglibeau didn't impress this on the AFL when he was here....how silly they are.

 

[RUNVS]

In 15 years time this is what the AFL should look like.

Victoria - 8 teams
Western Australia - 3 teams
South Australia - 2 teams
Queensland - 2 teams
New South Wales - 2 teams
Tasmania - 1 team

1 team in Victoria should relocate to Tasmania and 2 teams in Victoria should merge.

 

[Exe Gesis]

In 15 years time this is what the AFL should look like.

Victoria - 8 teams
Western Australia - 3 teams
South Australia - 2 teams
Queensland - 2 teams
New South Wales - 2 teams
Tasmania - 1 team

1 team in Victoria should relocate to Tasmania and 2 teams in Victoria should merge.

I wouldn't use the word "should". However, Tasmania would be better off having a proper new expansion team, not a relocation job. As for mergers....Victorian teams may well merge or drop out like Fitzroy in the years to come. But there shouldn't be a "should" about it.

The catch-22 for the AFL is that Victorians are great fans, and where the AFL economy is centered, while trying to crack the AR game in Rugby regions like NSW is unlikely. So expansion will come at a cost to the Victorian fans/economy. Plus, the game itself (AR) has been ruined by the AFL. So the game itself, as a product, is actually getting worse, less bearable. Not only for the rest of us, but even more for NSW'men and QLD too. It's all well and good to expand, but the game itself needs to be actually good first. It's too much like netball/basketball and only ever getting more like it.

Free-flowing isnt necessarily fun to watch. A big-ass field with all these metro guys running around untouched, taking a billion uncontested marks, the incessant whistling, the million little chip passes and deft little triangular handballs, players zoning off, a country mile of field between players, and the SAVAGERY of soft free-kicks and players milking it as well.

 

[1jasonoz]

Either the current government gets re-elected or the opposition also need to agree to this funding to have this occur!

 

[Stereophonic]

Well its about time.

There must be an election coming

 

[Exe Gesis]

If I were to mess around with the AR game, I'd make it a 100 meter rectangular field, still about 15-18 per team on the field, and far more physically legal like Ice Hockey on grass. The field would be more congested with bodies, so more tackling and bumping, more accountable football, and games would go from one extreme to another---from brutal slogging games to fast-paced open scoring. Also, rectangular fields are good for creating a gladiatorial type atmosphere, with a massive stadium of 50,000+ fans hovering directly over it.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

In 15 years time this is what the AFL should look like.

Victoria - 8 teams
Western Australia - 3 teams
South Australia - 2 teams
Queensland - 2 teams
New South Wales - 2 teams
Tasmania - 1 team

1 team in Victoria should relocate to Tasmania and 2 teams in Victoria should merge.

Tasmania is a "never" unfortunately. Simply no second tier sponsorshoips, no extra money for the AFL, no extra footy followers, low household incomes and asset base, and demographics more diverse than other states.
Darwin will get a team before Tasmania, despite being so much smaller at the moment. But that has to be 40 years away.

Victoria - 10 teams
Western Australia - 3 teams
South Australia - 2 teams
Queensland - 2 teams
New South Wales - 2 teams
? - 1 team

I just don't know where the 20th team can be. Possibly three in Sydney, but that seems unlikely. Maybe Newcastle, but the difference between Newcastle and GC is that the GC is expected to grow rapidly, Newcastle not so much. Newcastle is also RL heartland in a way theat even western Sydney struggle to match.
It might be an option if Newcastle could somehow also pick up the northern NSW coast.
Port Moresby is, in some ways, my favourite option. But realistically, its unlikely to ever produce a financial return.
Unfortunately, Townsville and Cairns are really separate markets (much like Hobart and Tasmanian non-Hobart), so I'm not sure North Qld would work either.
Canberra is not an option. 350k in rugby territory with struggling RL and RU teams (both of which have been subject to very speculative relocation rumours in the last few years); and a possible A-League team.

As for the planned expansions. GC I'm not so sure about, only 500k growing to 800k in RL dominated teritory, but want it to go ahead. Even if it never breaks even, it shoudl be worth the investment simply to get extra people interested in our game.
WS will take quite a few decades but should eventually become viable. (Maybe by the time Darwin is ready for a team.)

 

[stmookeyj]

Considering that the Government have a lot of marginal seats on the GC that the opposition are looking to win, I see this as an election stunt to buy votes. If the Government loses the election (possible), I wonder if this is one of the first things cut from the budget?

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

Considering that the Government have a lot of marginal seats on the GC that the opposition are looking to win, I see this as an election stunt to buy votes. If the Government loses the election (possible), I wonder if this is one of the first things cut from the budget?

Its possibly such a low priority for most Qld - even GC - voters that Springborg won't even have to announce anything one way or the other for the whole campaign.

 

[Zvim]

Fancy seeing you in here with some negative comments. Even if they are totally unjustified.

They need $130m to get the stadium renovated to 25k people. They currently have $80m ($60m + $20m). Maths must not be your strong point, because $130m - $80M = $50m.

Whilst this by no means it is not guaranteed to go ahead, it has taken a big step and will take more very quickly, you can count on that. Particularly, with a labor federal government in power trying to enable a labor state government to stay in power.

Negative? AFL said it would cost 300-350m to redevelop the stadium. Where did this $80m figure come from?

Their initial figures were projected based on the revenue of a redeveloped stadium. I think the outside of the stadium was projected to be about $50m so that can be delayed but a cheap facelift would also have to modify the kind of income they could generate there, assuming it would lack the corporate boxes and facilities which is a significant portion of matchday revenue.

There is also the current issue that they will have to play games at the Gabba, how much realistic support would they get from the GC who have to travel to Brisbane to attend matches?

Would be far simpler to delay the team until 2015, the original date, where they don't have to play games at Gabba and can wait for the economy to recover a bit and get a proper stadium built. GC still don't have a license yet, too many things have been left for too late. They need to do the GC push properly and not just do a rush job.

AFL wants these new teams to be self-sufficient within 10 years, not to be future Sydney Swans. So they have to do it properly.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Considering that the Government have a lot of marginal seats on the GC that the opposition are looking to win, I see this as an election stunt to buy votes. If the Government loses the election (possible), I wonder if this is one of the first things cut from the budget?

The government is in caretaker mode, so they can't sign a contract commiting funding to this stadium deal. It's a Labor party election promise. If the government lose and the LNP don't offer this as an election promise then it means it wont happen, unless the AFL convince the new government to change their mind and make a commitment and then sign the contract.

 

[Zvim]

Considering that the Government have a lot of marginal seats on the GC that the opposition are looking to win, I see this as an election stunt to buy votes. If the Government loses the election (possible), I wonder if this is one of the first things cut from the budget?

There is a risk of both sides don't share the same views, don't know what the Ken doll's views are on AFL's expansion.

 

[McCrann]

Tasmania is a "never" unfortunately. Simply no second tier sponsorshoips, no extra money for the AFL, no extra footy followers, low household incomes and asset base, and demographics more diverse than other states.
Darwin will get a team before Tasmania, despite being so much smaller at the moment. But that has to be 40 years away.

Victoria - 10 teams
Western Australia - 3 teams
South Australia - 2 teams
Queensland - 2 teams
New South Wales - 2 teams
? - 1 team

I just don't know where the 20th team can be. Possibly three in Sydney, but that seems unlikely. Maybe Newcastle, but the difference between Newcastle and GC is that the GC is expected to grow rapidly, Newcastle not so much. Newcastle is also RL heartland in a way theat even western Sydney struggle to match.
It might be an option if Newcastle could somehow also pick up the northern NSW coast.
Port Moresby is, in some ways, my favourite option. But realistically, its unlikely to ever produce a financial return.
Unfortunately, Townsville and Cairns are really separate markets (much like Hobart and Tasmanian non-Hobart), so I'm not sure North Qld would work either.
Canberra is not an option. 350k in rugby territory with struggling RL and RU teams (both of which have been subject to very speculative relocation rumours in the last few years); and a possible A-League team.

As for the planned expansions. GC I'm not so sure about, only 500k growing to 800k in RL dominated teritory, but want it to go ahead. Even if it never breaks even, it shoudl be worth the investment simply to get extra people interested in our game.
WS will take quite a few decades but should eventually become viable. (Maybe by the time Darwin is ready for a team.)

20 Teams by 2020/25

Should be the aim.

Victoria - 9 teams (Unfortunately, I think 1 will have to go - who it is will depend on when it is)
Western Australia - 3 teams (+ Perth Pirates or ???)
South Australia - 2 teams
Queensland - 2 teams (+ Gold Coast FC)
New South Wales - 3 teams (+ West Sydney & + Castle Coast (NewCastle & Central Coast/Gosford area - 1m people around there, it has to be the next region to target to get a truly national footprint - even though AFL is not a big sport there in any sense at present, it will be an expansion team)
Tasmania - 1 team - I have a feeling the recession we're in - which will only get worse, will likely mean Tasmania enter the comp in 2012 instead of West Sydney.)

I suspect one of Tasmania and West Sydney will be a relocated / forced relocation of an existing Melbourne team - but I don't know which team it will be, and I don't know which direction they'll be flying - whether North or South. I'm pretty certain it will happen, and frankly think its likelier they'll "choose" to go South because they know there are AFL supporters down there and Tasmania is closer to Melbourne.

On the other hand, going to West Sydney is a clean slate in terms of people to appeal to - something that could potentially be a problem with "diehards" in Tasmania.

19th and 20th teams to come in in 10+ years time - so don't get your knickers in a knot about that being unrealistic - I know its unrealistic now - but what about in 10-15 years?

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

There is no way Tasmania is - or will be - more financially viable than 10th, or even a 12th, team in Melbourne. Nobody will move there for financial reasons, unless the AFL gives huge handouts indefeinitely and gthey have no reason to do that in a tiny market (well, at least two distinct tiny markets in reality) that they already control to an even greater extent than Victoria.

 

[Azzballz Deluxe]

Whats happening in 2012?

Pigs will fly, apparently.