Review Qualifying Final 1, 2021 - Melbourne vs. Brisbane Lions

[LIONS08]

Well why is Harris playing then if he is injured? He is a liability atm, not helping the team at all as he is. Should not be selected.

Come this time of year you would find most players will be playing with some kind of niggle to a varying degree. Harris’ lateral movement has looked shot since he copped that player landing on his knee a few weeks back. Same with Diz. But Cleary these blokes playing at 70-80% are better than the options we have in the twos. This year, as it was honestly so close, will be a year of who stays the most injury free hence why port and the deed are through to prelims already. They basically have just about everyone who they need to be, fit and healthy.

I think we need to spare a thought for Cocky. He would have been devastated after tha my collision with Mcstay. You can truly see how much he loves the boys and that would have been on his mind all night

 

[Dogga6]

Sorry to intrude but I ******* love your coach. What an amazing man Fagan is, to not sit there and b*tch and moan (*cough Chris Scott*) but to commend another team for playing well. Would love to see that man holding a premiership cup one day, genuinely hope to see him achieve that. Fingers crossed your list is in better shape over the next few years and you get a genuine crack at it.

Best of luck next week!

I second that.

Fagan is all class and you guys are extremely lucky to have him.

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

I don't think it takes a massive restructuring to implement some run and carry and defensive running to impede fast breaks from half back or midfield. Just takes some re-jigging. It's amazing how much faster and how much more outside pressure and running a team can look with just two or three player changes. We might already have it on our list. 2 or 3 first round picks this year to add won't hurt.

Got to ask why a player like T. Berry hasn't been used before now .
Played well, only to be dropped.
Next year we do need to get running back in our game, and I'm not so sure if our structuring needs to change.
Most of our speed is up front.
so next week play Kiddy and madden down back and play Clugga in the middle,
T. Berry on one wing to get that overlapping run with Bailey and Madden and Kiddy.
We have the speed , time to use it more.
Madden takes Birch
Payne comes in for Gardiner, that is a must.
Not sure who takes Dan's spot, possible to play Payne there or Balladen?
Possibly bring Arch in to play 70% ruck time with Oscar up forward most of the time.

 

[youtwo]

While there are currently a few flaws in our game, finals and premierships are generally won off the back of a very solid defence.

Currently our backline looks as shaky as it has for the last 3 years.

Our two best defenders, Andrews and Gardiner look completely shot. We are in big trouble unless our midfield completely dominates the opposition and the game is played on our half.

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

Come this time of year you would find most players will be playing with some kind of niggle to a varying degree. Harris’ lateral movement has looked shot since he copped that player landing on his knee a few weeks back. Same with Diz. But Cleary these blokes playing at 70-80% are better than the options we have in the twos. This year, as it was honestly so close, will be a year of who stays the most injury free hence why port and the deed are through to prelims already. They basically have just about everyone who they need to be, fit and healthy.

I think we need to spare a thought for Cocky. He would have been devastated after tha my collision with Mcstay. You can truly see how much he loves the boys and that would have been on his mind all night

Please Dizzy at 70/80% is better than someone like Paine , no way.
It was his opponent quite a few times last night that had free run at the ball, same with Birch, pissed me off, don't play if they are that injured, not up to it.
It is apparent all this talk of squads and thats what makes finals is poppycock , Fagan won't drop them unless he is forced.

 

[Dalions]

Probably really should have finished the year 5th because I think that is about where we sit at the moment.

With Dan going down I would strongly consider bringing Archie in to shoulder some of the load in the Ruck so Oscar can spend a bit more time forward. Just for this week until Dan is back the following week.
Probably more likely we go with Ballenden though.

We all know that Chris Fagan likes the 3 tall options in the forward line so with us running out of options maybe it is worth a gamble bringing Archie in just for the one game.

 

[Sherrinator]

Wonder if we should play Andrew’s as a KPF? Liability down back and I feel like he and Adams play too similarly.

 

[Sherrinator]

How good are Melbourne though? It's amazing what happens when you run both ways the entire game. We can learn a lot from them.

It’s what happens when the high draft picks become the main event as opposed to toilers like Jones. They are mad to pick Jones for the prelim IMO.

 

[Lionheart182]

Well why is Harris playing then if he is injured? He is a liability atm, not helping the team at all as he is. Should not be selected.

Still better at 70% than our next best option at 100%

 

[Squizz89]

Still better at 70% than our next best option at 100%

Which is scary really, because he was beyond useless last night. Out of their first 3 or 4 goals he would’ve had a hand in causing/playing a part in all of them.

Think he may have been carrying something with his lower back for most of the year. There’s been times where he struggles to bend over.

He’s always been laconic in the way he goes about things but seems to be at a different level with that at times this year.

 

[briztoon]

Got to ask why a player like T. Berry hasn't been used before now .
Played well, only to be dropped.
Next year we do need to get running back in our game, and I'm not so sure if our structuring needs to change.
Most of our speed is up front.
so next week play Kiddy and madden down back and play Clugga in the middle,
T. Berry on one wing to get that overlapping run with Bailey and Madden and Kiddy.
We have the speed , time to use it more.
Madden takes Birch
Payne comes in for Gardiner, that is a must.
Not sure who takes Dan's spot, possible to play Payne there or Balladen?
Possibly bring Arch in to play 70% ruck time with Oscar up forward most of the time.

Tom Berry is great playing a defensive role. Has the pace and endurance and is hard as a cats head (what ever that really means?).

But offensively he offers very little. He’s a worse kick than his brother, and he needs to work on his game awareness.

The “problem” with adding Neale and Lyons, and becoming a top 4 team, is that we’re now in a win now mode, and that can stifle the development of young players who need to be playing AFL to fast track their development for future years.

We can’t play all of Dev Robertson, Harry Sharp, Prior, Coleman, Madden and Payne and expect to make the top 8, let alone top 4.

But to potentially win a championship built around McCluggage, Rayner, Andrews and Hipwood, we need to be playing the above 6 young players week in, week out, to progress their development and see if they’ll all make it.

Oh, and Covid has really messed with our second’s development.

 

[royboys4eva]

So so disappointing. We played well in the first qtr but with McStay gone you just knew we would break down structurally and the second qtr was abysmal. Just hack kicks which allowed the Dees to set the game up exactly as they like.

To the boys credit they really dug deep in the third but we needed probably another couple goals for reward and the tank was running empty in the last. Dees are so hungry and full of confidence in there game. They will be hard to beat from here. Had they kicked straight in the second qtr they could have blown us away. They also got ever 50/50 call.. not that it mattered in the final result.

So basically we are playing with a backline that has two of our most reliable defenders in Harris and Gardiner who are clearly injured and lacking confidence. Harris can't sprint - he is trailing his opponent every time.. Darcy can't raise his arms up and doesn't want any contact. I'm not the biggest Jack Payne fan but he probably needs to come in and we need to maybe look at playing Harris full forward. Get Daniher up the ground playing the McStay role.

Fullarton and Cockatoo non existent last night. Cocky has to be dropped for Ah Chee. Not sure if they are willing to pull the gun and replace Fullarton with Ballanden this late in the season in a finals match?

Lester definitely comes back in. He can swing forward if needed and a cool head down back.

Loved Colemans game last night - that was the biggest positive from last night. We may have unlocked our future half backer for the future. Looks very polished.

Special mention to Lachie playing his guts out last night and along with Charlie who was back to the player we all love - if not for those two and Coleman we lose by 50+.

Oscar can also hold his head high never gave up and actually did well in the ruck considering against Gawn. My big worry is he has now played Nic Nat and Gawn back to back - he could be exhausted next week?

Finally Jarrod Berry

7

Jarrod Berry

Age

26

Ht

192cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.4

4star

K

8.5

3star

HB

8.9

5star

M

3.9

4star

T

4.2

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

17.0

4star

K

9.4

4star

HB

7.6

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

5.1

5star

CL

2.9

4star

D

10.6

3star

K

4.4

2star

HB

6.2

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.8

5star

CL

0.8

3star

is a massive concern for me. Not half the player I thought he would be and what he thinks he is. Dropped two absolute sitters last night. Needs to work harder and probably needs a much better run without injuries to be fair.

 

[On the quiet]

My take: Harris is playing injured and has been for some time. Cockatoo is restricted and can't run - hasn't got near it since a great first quarter last week. Darcy is injured and hasn't been right since he was rushed back - should not have been selected...three pretty serious liabilities in a final.

Agree. So is that possibly selection bias or a complete lack of faith in other available options? Do we do the same now in an elimination final?
Harris stays 100%, but he has been caught out of position before pushing up too far and he is not fast enough on the quick counter attack, especially if playing injured.

5 or 6 weeks ago posters were criticising Coleman, now after his last two games I reckon he can take Bircahall's spot.

 

[On the quiet]

So so disappointing. We played well in the first qtr but with McStay gone you just knew we would break down structurally and the second qtr was abysmal. Just hack kicks which allowed the Dees to set the game up exactly as they like.

To the boys credit they really dug deep in the third but we needed probably another couple goals for reward and the tank was running empty in the last. Dees are so hungry and full of confidence in there game. They will be hard to beat from here. Had they kicked straight in the second qtr they could have blown us away. They also got ever 50/50 call.. not that it mattered in the final result.

So basically we are playing with a backline that has two of our most reliable defenders in Harris and Gardiner who are clearly injured and lacking confidence. Harris can't sprint - he is trailing his opponent every time.. Darcy can't raise his arms up and doesn't want any contact. I'm not the biggest Jack Payne fan but he probably needs to come in and we need to maybe look at playing Harris full forward. Get Daniher up the ground playing the McStay role.

Fullarton and Cockatoo non existent last night. Cocky has to be dropped for Ah Chee. Not sure if they are willing to pull the gun and replace Fullarton with Ballanden this late in the season in a finals match?

Lester definitely comes back in. He can swing forward if needed and a cool head down back.

Loved Colemans game last night - that was the biggest positive from last night. We may have unlocked our future half backer for the future. Looks very polished.

Special mention to Lachie playing his guts out last night and along with Charlie who was back to the player we all love - if not for those two and Coleman we lose by 50+.

Oscar can also hold his head high never gave up and actually did well in the ruck considering against Gawn. My big worry is he has now played Nic Nat and Gawn back to back - he could be exhausted next week?

Finally Jarrod Berry is a massive concern for me. Not half the player I thought he would be and what he thinks he is. Dropped two absolute sitters last night. Needs to work harder and probably needs a much better run without injuries to be fair.

Lester is in, but did not have a good game against the West Coast a couple of weeks ago.
Agree Oscar was very good, and Neal both tried their hardest. Liked Coleman's game, and to a lesser extend Adams

 

[irish]

so Fullerton has to go , who goes in as a key forward bearing in mind mcstay is out ?

 

[Lazza16]

Spot on about Hippy and Rayner but we're wasting our time with Cocky. He can't run anymore. That sprint to the boundary with Jake Lever was sad. The Cockatoo from Geelong days would have done Lever by 10 meters. Delist?

So much for those on here saying we can't drop Cocky coz of his X factor.....can't win a final without the X factor. Blind Freddy could see he was going to be a liability against Melbourne with his opponent running off him running thru the centre to receive a handball to create the lose man. His only x factor was killing McStay n perhaps our finals.

 

[On the quiet]

Tom Berry is great playing a defensive role. Has the pace and endurance and is hard as a cats head (what ever that really means?).

But offensively he offers very little. He’s a worse kick than his brother, and he needs to work on his game awareness.

The “problem” with adding Neale and Lyons, and becoming a top 4 team, is that we’re now in a win now mode, and that can stifle the development of young players who need to be playing AFL to fast track their development for future years.

We can’t play all of Dev Robertson, Harry Sharp, Prior, Coleman, Madden and Payne and expect to make the top 8, let alone top 4.

But to potentially win a championship built around McCluggage, Rayner, Andrews and Hipwood, we need to be playing the above 6 young players week in, week out, to progress their development and see if they’ll all make it.

Oh, and Covid has really messed with our second’s development.

We are still an outside chance with hopefully the semi at the GABBA next week and then Port in Adelaide.
I have said previously that COVID has really impacted on the development of some of our young guys, and am firm on that view.
We probably can't make top 4 in 2022 if we played all of the above named young guys, but the coaches need to be strategic and look at match ups and also back the young guys in, for example unless they have an absolute shocker give them a run of 5 or 6 straight games, especially against the easier teams.

How long does a Western Australian (Robertson and Prior) wait around now that Robbo has extended for another year and there is talk of Birchall wanting to go around again in 2022.
How long does Payne wait around with Adams resigning for another 2 years. Not to mention the club favourite Lester still with a year to go and no doubt keen to go around beyond 2022.
Sharp and Madden, IMO still have a bit more time to develop.
Then there is Answerth

 

[Lazza16]

so Fullerton has to go , who goes in as a key forward bearing in mind mcstay is out ?

Left field....Payne or Ballenden back n sleepy Dad forward. Came to the club as a forward. A goal or 2 might wake him up. Doggies have English n Bombres 2 metre Pete as their tallest. Hopefully Payne can be competitive. As Fages always says....it takes a squad to win a flag so we have to rely on these guys.

 

[dlanod]

Well why is Harris playing then if he is injured? He is a liability atm, not helping the team at all as he is. Should not be selected.

Because 80% of Andrews beats 90% of some (no doubt some potential replacements also have niggles that they'd be playing through) and 100% of others.

 

[Mazza44]

People are being very harsh on Fullerton. Yes, he is not ready, but there is so much potential in him.

Our list management is what has cost us. We did not replace Martin and have persisted with Smith after 7 years of nothing. Fullerton has been our only option as a second ruck and has been put in the role as we lack an alternative. It is hardly his fault that he is our only option to play in these massive games when he was recruited as and still is a long term project. He will be better for the experience but he needs time.

 

[beardancer]

We need to talk about Harris Andrews.

He is a great mark (when he goes for them) and is a great reader of the ball in flight. He IS NOT a good one on one defender, he IS NOT able to play on power forwards, he IS NOT quick enough to keep up with fast leading forwards, he IS NOT able to react to quick, elusive forwards

Harris Andrews is a very good INTERCEPT MARKER and spoiler when he has time to read the kick. If he is not played in a role across half back where he can play to his stregths, he is a liability.

Not meant as a criticism of Andrews, just an acknowledgement of what he does well and does not do well.

We need to free him up to mark everything across half back and block the space IN FRONT of the deep forwards, not play shoulder to shoulder with them. Fev said he would have loved to play on andrews and says he would have kicked bags. He is right. Andrews is a poor deep defender. Fev would have slaughtered him man on man. However, Fev would not have liked Harris taking space in front of him and marking everything coming his direction.

Harris skills are OFFENSIVE, not defensive, we must play to his strengths.

Spot on comrade, Harris is our Hippy replacement and Jack Payne should play man on man at full back.

 

[On the quiet]

so Fullerton has to go , who goes in as a key forward bearing in mind mcstay is out ?

I think there are three options all have risk.
Adams has played as a forward for the Dogs, and Payne covers in the backline
Payne, reckon with is speed and physicality he could play lead up forward type role
Ballenden

 

[martinson]

So much for those on here saying we can't drop Cocky coz of his X factor.....can't win a final without the X factor. Blind Freddy could see he was going to be a liability against Melbourne with his opponent running off him running thru the centre to receive a handball to create the lose man. His only x factor was killing McStay n perhaps our finals.

That was a massive issue. It's where their run and overlap came from. Ah Chee or T Berry would've been a lot better.

The problem with Harris is that when he's injured he drops his head and lets everyone know. You expect a better look from your 6'7 AA gun defender but he's not one of those where a 70% him is better than anyone else . So the problem is we probably don't have anyone else.

You wouldn't expect a lot of guys to go as badly again i.e Zorko and Lyons to mention two . A few egos got a touch up , so I'd expect a lot better showing this week. But if we learnt anything it's that you can't carry injured players in big pressure finals. And that maybe we needed to turn over our players a little more often during the year to give some of those knocking on the door at least a 2 or 3 games run to see if they're up to it.

 

[MSB ROYS]

Totally outplayed. As others have said, winning without McStay was always going to be a miracle. Hopefully we can regroup and play well next week, but on that performance we are no chance for the flag. Pity as I was hoping for the AFLW and AFL double! I can't help but think that not having our seconds play many competitive games for most of the last two years means that bringing new players in too risky for our coaching panel (who are risk adverse for better or worse).

 

[Lion_LegacyXL]

Hang on a minute, I know we've been rubbish, but not that bad: we finished 9th last year after a bad run in the Covid bubble. 2019 was a write-off because of injuries: half the team missed the pre-season, but even once the season started we had trouble keeping players on the park. e.g. both Lever and May missed more games than they played. The ingredients have been coming together for a few years now, helped along by some good draft choices (Jackson and Pickett) and some decent trades (Langdon and Brown).

You're right my bad, 2019 & 2020 have kind of felt like they blended in to each other in my mind. My apologies.