Quarter of a century without Fitzroy: Is the AFL better or worse off?

[Shane Heard]

Don Scott saving HFC

 

[Back One Out]

As a national competiton, the AFL is way better off without Fitzroy as there was too many Melbourne-based clubs then and still is today. It may not have been Fitzroy that went to the wall though, it may just have been bad timing for them.

The number of clubs in the competition still needs to grow a little to enable an even draw as well as branch out into new areas and therefore grow the game even more. However, there needs to be a rationalisation of clubs in Melbourne as there are some who are perennial non-achievers and constant welfare recipients.

The AFL is so much better nowadays with 18 teams instead of 14 and with heavyweight juggernauts like the Suns and Giants drawing crowds of 5,000-6,000 people to their games.

Fitzroy was just too much of a drain on the league's finances...

We need to cut the number of clubs in Victoria from 10 to 5 or less so it looks more like the NBA or NFL with an even spread of teams all around our great nation... Relocate Hawthorn Hawks to Hobart, Geelong Cats to Canberra, Melbourne Demons to Darwin, St Kilda Saints to Alice Springs, Western Bulldogs to Broome, North to Cairns

Maybe even think about expanding into overseas markets to increase the tv rights money

Adelaide Crows
Port Power
Sydney Swans
GWS Giants
Canberra Cats
Hobart Hawks
Brisbane Lions
Gold Coast Suns
Cairns Kangaroos
Darwin Demons
Alice Springs Saints
Broome Bulldogs
West Coast Eagles
Fremantle Dockers
Collingwood Magpies
Hong Kong Tigers
London-Paris Blues
Los Angeles Bombers

 

[Shane Heard]

The AFL is so much better nowadays with 18 teams instead of 14 and with heavyweight juggernauts like the Suns and Giants drawing crowds of 5,000-6,000 people to their games.

Fitzroy was just too much of a drain on the league's finances...

We need to cut the number of clubs in Victoria from 10 to 5 so it looks more like NBA or NFL... Relocate Hawthorn Hawks to Hobart, Geelong Cats to Canberra, Melbourne Demons to Darwin, St Kilda Saints to Alice Springs, Western Bulldogs to Broome, North to Cairns

Adelaide Crows
Port Power
Sydney Swans
GWS Giants
Canberra Cats
Hobart Hawks
West Coast Eagles
Fremantle Dockers
Darwin Demons
Alice Springs Saints
Broome Bulldogs
Brisbane Lions
Gold Coast Suns
Cairns Kangaroos
Carlton Blues
Collingwood Magpies
Richmond Tigers
Essendon Bombers

Jesus …Broome would be a brutal place to play. But I’m guessing Rio Tinto would sponsor a team and build an enclosed air-conditioned stadium to accommodate things.

I like how the last 4 you mentioned have always been resilient to financial misfortunes and would be never be in danger of relocation.

Geelong are in a class of their own and always have been. There’s a strong emotion connection with the feral locals. That’s worth gold..

 

[Back One Out]

Jesus …Broome would be a brutal place to play. But I’m guessing Rio Tinto would sponsor a team and build an enclosed air-conditioned stadium to accommodate things.

I like how the last 4 you mentioned have always been resilient to financial misfortunes and would be never be in danger of relocation.

Geelong are in a class of their own and always have been. There’s a strong emotion connection with the feral locals. That’s worth gold..

No, I updated my post.

3 of the big four were relocated to larger international market to increase the financial pie from TV rights

 

[Shane Heard]

No, I updated my post.

3 of the big four were relocated to larger international market to increase the financial pie from TV rights

Yes I saw your edit.

But you were not quick enough to dodge my quote of your quote

 

[Back One Out]

Yes I saw your edit.

But you were not quick enough to dodge my quote of your quote

I'm just slightly perplexed how it took you more than 8 minutes to type out 3 sentences.

That's pretty slow even for an Essendon fan.

 

[Shane Heard]

I'm just slightly perplexed how it took you more than 8 minutes to type out 3 sentences.

That's pretty slow even for an Essendon fan.

You’re quite the comedian there with that one.

Bravo.

 

[Irish BlueBagger]

As a national competiton, the AFL is way better off without Fitzroy as there was too many Melbourne-based clubs then and still is today. It may not have been Fitzroy that went to the wall though, it may just have been bad timing for them.

The number of clubs in the competition still needs to grow a little to enable an even draw as well as branch out into new areas and therefore grow the game even more. However, there needs to be a rationalisation of clubs in Melbourne as there are some who are perennial non-achievers and constant welfare recipients.

Who are these clubs you see as constant "welfare recipients"?

North Melbourne seem to be an easy target for such sneery and ill informed comments, but the Roos are now debt free.

Our club was in need of welfare itself back in those dark 2002-2007 days, until the late Richard Pratt thankfully came to our rescue.

 

[terrybull]

W

The AFL is so much better nowadays with 18 teams instead of 14 and with heavyweight juggernauts like the Suns and Giants drawing crowds of 5,000-6,000 people to their games.

Fitzroy was just too much of a drain on the league's finances...

We need to cut the number of clubs in Victoria from 10 to 5 or less so it looks more like the NBA or NFL with an even spread of teams all around our great nation... Relocate Hawthorn Hawks to Hobart, Geelong Cats to Canberra, Melbourne Demons to Darwin, St Kilda Saints to Alice Springs, Western Bulldogs to Broome, North to Cairns

Maybe even think about expanding into overseas markets to increase the tv rights money

Adelaide Crows
Port Power
Sydney Swans
GWS Giants
Canberra Cats
Hobart Hawks
Brisbane Lions
Gold Coast Suns
Cairns Kangaroos
Darwin Demons
Alice Springs Saints
Broome Bulldogs
West Coast Eagles
Fremantle Dockers
Collingwood Magpies
Hong Kong Tigers
London-Paris Blues
Los Angeles Bombers

Why don’t you suggest your own team to relocate ? Oh… you did ! All good then.

But you do you really need more then one team from the other states.

So going on with your suggestion:

Stockholm Eagles
Jakarta Swans
Bucharest Crows
Madrid Suns

Rename Australian Football League to Victorian Rules League so we don’t forget where the sport originated from.

 

[Irish BlueBagger]

All the struggling Vic clubs should have been relocated to places like Sydney, Brisbane, Tassie, Canberra. Then we'd have had strong clubs in other states and kept the history of those clubs along with it.

Hmm the Tassie or Canberra Bombers. It does have a nice ring to it i must admit. I presume and hope that post was in jest!

 

[Irish BlueBagger]

Well they could never really seriously consider relocating MFC. Their entire existence is linked to the MCG and the MCC.

Luckily..it only took 60 secs of a reality dose from Don Scott to squash the idea of HFC merging with the Dees.

The “struggling” clubs have always been North, Footscray and Saints.

I’m talking off field stuff.

But all three (with the assistance of the AFL commission) have survived and thrived and have built a foundation of strength to fortify themselves from lack of premierships.

If any of those 3 had of moved to another state they would’ve perished into oblivion.

HFC survived because they have a huge fan base and strong coterie groups who pumped money into the club…and along with a robust and effective management support after the MFC merger situation.

Their own supporters on mass saved the club from extinction …basically

Recent flags galore helped the cause.

Footscray and North Melbourne don't have much in terms of flags, but both those clubs have plenty of heart, fight and spirit. The Roos beat both Carlton and Collingwood in grand finals. The Bulldogs of course have won a flag more recently than both Carlton and Essendon as well.

St Kilda seem to nearly always be a tough team to support. The Saints are a founding member of the VFL, and have only the one flag and a record twenty seven wooden spoons to show for it. Yet their fans keep on paying their memberships year after year, and going to the games etc. That's what it's all about really.

 

[1990crow]

But plenty of clubs since Fitzroy, including a number of Melbourne-based clubs, have struggled to carry themselves and relied heavily upon the AFL and other clubs to hold themselves up. The Fitzroy situation seems sad in retrospect because they weren't afforded the same leeway that so many have been after. It is now vital to the AFL to have its 18 teams for the TV rights, so they're happier to cop handouts to mismanaged clubs than roll them up or merge them, because creating a brand new team to fill the gap would cost substantially more.

If they had continued to be so ruthless, the AFL could have dissolved or merged a number of clubs throughout the 90s/2000s and filled their spots with teams in other states, thereby ultimately establishing the AFL as a true national competition rather than the weird VFL+ model we have now.

 

[Roylion]

All the struggling Vic clubs should have been relocated to places like Sydney, Brisbane, Tassie, Canberra.

And who was going to make them relocate?

 

[Coolangatta]

I wonder who the 18th team would’ve been if we still had Fitzroy. The AFL wanted both Gold Coast and Western Sydney.

Would we have seen an 18th team a lot sooner than 2011? Could that team have been Tasmania, with the Suns and Giants coming in later as team 19 and 20? We’ll never know.

In any case, I don’t think that we’d be any worse off today with 19 teams than 18. We really should have a top 10 if we ever get to 20 teams, though.

12 teams missing the finals is too many dead rubbers. I actually think the league would be better off splitting into two groups in the distant future.

Not the same teams in each group every year, of course, but rotational. You’d be much more invested if your team was five spots from the top six instead of ten from the top twelve. It’s a long way to the top if you want to rock and roll.

 

[Kwality]

All the struggling Vic clubs should have been relocated to places like Sydney, Brisbane, Tassie, Canberra. Then we'd have had strong clubs in other states and kept the history of those clubs along with it.

The Sydney Swans model that has been the result of pain for all involved along the way.

 

[Kwality]

And who was going to make them relocate?

A Commission dedicated to building a national comp, not preserving the VFL clubs on the back of WA & SA players & money.
Easily said I know, when dealing with the VFL egomania of the day

 

[Coolangatta]

Best relocation model would’ve been North Melbourne to Gold Coast, Western Bulldogs to Western Sydney, St Kilda to Canberra.

Eventually add Tasmania, New Zealand, North Queensland, Northern Territory = 20 teams.

They didn’t have the power then or now to do it, though.

Hopefully 10 teams in Victoria isn’t going to curtail future growth of the game, or diminish quality.

You could argue that it’s the growth of the Suns and Giants that will shape future expansion now. They’re the most behind currently, though could’ve been given a leg up with relocations. Even the AFL knew this re: North hence the GC offer.

 

[Roylion]

A Commission dedicated to building a national comp,

The Commission has NO power to force a club it does not own to merge or relocate.

 

[Roylion]

They didn’t have the power then or now to do it, though.

So in that case it's largely pointless talking about what the Commission should've / could've done.

 

[peetoo]

Best relocation model would’ve been North Melbourne to Gold Coast, Western Bulldogs to Western Sydney, St Kilda to Canberra.

Eventually add Tasmania, New Zealand, North Queensland, Northern Territory = 20 teams.

They didn’t have the power then or now to do it, though.

Hopefully 10 teams in Victoria isn’t going to curtail future growth of the game, or diminish quality.

You could argue that it’s the growth of the Suns and Giants that will shape future expansion now. They’re the most behind currently, though could’ve been given a leg up with relocations. Even the AFL knew this re: North hence the GC offer.

While Victoria is producing roughly 50% of draftees, what’s the problem! Or maybe it’s self fulfilling etc.

 

[Coolangatta]

So in that case it's largely pointless talking about what the Commission should've / could've done.

Correct. All the AFL can do is present an offer. They tried with North and the GC, and North were well within their rights to reject it.

I would probably make a similar offer to St Kilda for Canberra if the Saints are still in debt come say 10-15 years from now. Possibly the Giants if they're a rabble in 15 years or so, too.

 

[Coolangatta]

While Victoria is producing roughly 50% of draftees, what’s the problem! Or maybe it’s self fulfilling etc.

No problem when we have 20 teams.

P.S. Expansion grows the talent pool, I doubt Vics will always be producing half the games players in the future.

 

[Kwality]

The Commission has NO power to force a club it does not own to merge or relocate.

IF WA had taken a leaf out of SAs book, we would have a national comp, not 'the VFL with bandaids'.

 

[Roylion]

Correct. All the AFL can do is present an offer. They tried with North and the GC, and North were well within their rights to reject it.

I would probably make a similar offer to St Kilda for Canberra if the Saints are still in debt come say 10-15 years from now. Possibly the Giants if they're a rabble in 15 years or so, too.

All the Commission can do is encourage. Any club not owned by the AFL cannot be forced to merge or relocate against their will.

 

[Roylion]

IF WA had taken a leaf out of SAs book, we would have a national comp, not 'the VFL with bandaids'.

Maybe. That doesn't the change the fact that the AFL cannot force any club it does not own to merge or relocate.