Mega Thread Questions about the ASADA/ EFC/ players and the legal process/ defences/ liability

Muggs

Premiership Player
Jan 16, 2015
4,048
5,985
Your local dark alley
AFL Club
Adelaide
If the EFC 34 wanted to do a Claudia Pechstien and get the award annulled by the local courts, would they first have to show they exhausted normal appeal avenues?

Considering the grounds they are using and the fact that CAS is de novo automatically wondering if the grounds they are using is actually more preparing for a home ground challenge.

Malifice and ChrisKaias any idea?
 
If the EFC 34 wanted to do a Claudia Pechstien and get the award annulled by the local courts, would they first have to show they exhausted normal appeal avenues?

Considering the grounds they are using and the fact that CAS is de novo automatically wondering if the grounds they are using is actually more preparing for a home ground challenge.

Malifice and ChrisKaias any idea?
I had seen that angled from one lawyer,. As to how accurate it is, I'm not sure.
 

Muggs

Premiership Player
Jan 16, 2015
4,048
5,985
Your local dark alley
AFL Club
Adelaide
I had seen that angled from one lawyer,. As to how accurate it is, I'm not sure.

Same here, hence asking the question.

From a CAS perspective these grounds do not make sense to me, take CAS out the equation and if went de novo to the AFL appeals tribunal based on the change than can certainly see it being grounds for a challenge.
 

ChrisKaias

Team Captain
Aug 11, 2014
330
1,745
AFL Club
Carlton
If the EFC 34 wanted to do a Claudia Pechstien and get the award annulled by the local courts, would they first have to show they exhausted normal appeal avenues?

Considering the grounds they are using and the fact that CAS is de novo automatically wondering if the grounds they are using is actually more preparing for a home ground challenge.

Malifice and ChrisKaias any idea?

Pechstein had the advantage of very favourable local laws which don't exist here in the same way. To answer your question though, I don't know whether this is a precursor to a local challenge. I don't like their chances though but they're no worse than the chances at the Swiss court.
 

Muggs

Premiership Player
Jan 16, 2015
4,048
5,985
Your local dark alley
AFL Club
Adelaide
Pechstein had the advantage of very favourable local laws which don't exist here in the same way. To answer your question though, I don't know whether this is a precursor to a local challenge. I don't like their chances though but they're no worse than the chances at the Swiss court.

Would locally require that all normal avenues be exhausted first? That's more my question.realise chances be slim.
 
Same here, hence asking the question.

From a CAS perspective these grounds do not make sense to me, take CAS out the equation and if went de novo to the AFL appeals tribunal based on the change than can certainly see it being grounds for a challenge.
yeah. i don't like the chances on the angle released from anyone i've talked to.


Unless that is a red herring of sorts, In some regard like when WADA commissioned the Tb4 test and the news of elevated results in the end that had very very little to do with the decision. lawyers may still be very guarded on the full reasons.
 
Aug 20, 2010
13,933
18,553
AFL Club
Fremantle

ChrisKaias

Team Captain
Aug 11, 2014
330
1,745
AFL Club
Carlton
I'm having trouble finding the list of substances on the consent forms.

Where do I find it?

Thanks.

If you're asking what the substances were, there were 4 forms. Tribulus, Colostrum, AOD-9604 and Thymosin. First two oral consumption, latter two injections.
 

TheEnsign

Club Legend
Zombie Lover A Star Wars Fan
Jun 24, 2014
2,303
5,063
AFL Club
St Kilda
Prosecution result summary for the Worksafe breaches here.

Convicted on both counts. EFC now have a criminal record.

Its my understanding that convictions against a body corporate can never be spent either.

An interesting side-effect of the conviction is that it could potentially prevent EFC from recruiting overseas talent in the future. Any organisation wanting approval to sponsor under the Sport visa stream (or an analog like a working visa) must satisfy an 'adverse information' provision, which in a nutshell covers contravention of law by the sponsor itself and (if a body corp) its' directors and can serve to have the sponsorship application refused.

Breaches of workplace law (including workplace safety) would be considered particularly serious in that context. From memory, the adverse information has to be in the last five years before the application for approval.

It would be kind of funny if EFC traded in for someone like Mike Pyke or Zach Tuohy and then found out they couldn't get a visa due to corporate misdeeds. And please, no jokes about Pyke or Tuohy, they're just examples.
 
If you're asking what the substances were, there were 4 forms. Tribulus, Colostrum, AOD-9604 and Thymosin. First two oral consumption, latter two injections.

Not completely true. AOD was used as a cream too in some cases

There were 13 Essendon players who recalled being treated with an AOD-9604 cream.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...s/news-story/59d3204c9ac15177780dad4ba92decee



Essendon administered AOD-9604 in form of a medical cream as well as injections
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...ll-as-injections/story-fni5f6kv-1226687808608
 

ChrisKaias

Team Captain
Aug 11, 2014
330
1,745
AFL Club
Carlton
Not completely true. AOD was used as a cream too in some cases

I'm just saying what was on the consent forms.

From the AFL Tribunal judgment:

Each of the 34 Players charged signed forms with a total of 38 signing. A separate form was signed for the administration of Tribulus, Colostrum, AOD-9604 and Thymosin. The latter two substances were to be administered by injection.
 
I'm just saying what was on the consent forms.

From the AFL Tribunal judgment:
Ah. OKay. Guess it does raisea few Q's about the full accuracy of the forms, there were numerous players that admitted to AOD cream use iirc./
 

2DMB

All Australian
Aug 24, 2011
657
610
Grey St
AFL Club
Hawthorn
I'm sure this has been asked previously but I couldn't find a reference to it.

Given the players are currently suspended from the AFL are they still a party to the ASADA drug testing regime?

Will the 34 be subject to any random or scheduled drug testing prior to November? It seems odd if they wouldn't be considering they have been convicted but I'd imagine they wont be subject to notifying people of their whereabouts etc either.

Thanks in advance
 
Oct 7, 2007
11,151
14,183
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
East Freo, Liverpool, Cardinals
I'm sure this has been asked previously but I couldn't find a reference to it.

Given the players are currently suspended from the AFL are they still a party to the ASADA drug testing regime?

Will the 34 be subject to any random or scheduled drug testing prior to November? It seems odd if they wouldn't be considering they have been convicted but I'd imagine they wont be subject to notifying people of their whereabouts etc either.

Thanks in advance

Yes.

Section 21.1 (c)

A Player or other Person subject to a period of Ineligibility shall remain subject to Testing.

As for random or targeted testing, that will be up to ASADA I would think. But as far as I remember, all players coming back from suspension get tested (disclaimer: thats from memory - might be wrong)
 

avignon

Senior List
Oct 8, 2004
164
74
Other Teams
ESSENDON
If the case was de novo, then why didn't CAS interview all players? As I understand it most players got sentenced without being called upon to give evidence.
 
Jun 29, 2013
3,712
5,517
AFL Club
West Coast
If the case was de novo, then why didn't CAS interview all players? As I understand it most players got sentenced without being called upon to give evidence.

Neither the defence or prosecution had the players giving evidence... The court were surprised by this & had to ask for them to present.

They had all provided written statements however
 

Muggs

Premiership Player
Jan 16, 2015
4,048
5,985
Your local dark alley
AFL Club
Adelaide
If the case was de novo, then why didn't CAS interview all players? As I understand it most players got sentenced without being called upon to give evidence.


Neither the defence or prosecution had the players giving evidence... The court were surprised by this & had to ask for them to present.

They had all provided written statements however

Begs the question why didn't the players defence team call upon the players to give evidence about their actions?

My thoughts, based on those who CAS called themselves, might have just further exposed the players lack of actions.
 
Back