Quicky's list draft and trade talk thread 2011

[Obese Arachnid]

Yeah but where did you get the information that he has a "degenerative" knee injury?

Certainly his injury issues were a concern this year but calls that he is about to retire because of them seem to be drawing a very long bow based off very little.



From the handful of his games I saw of his in the VFL I thought he was ready for senior footy. Many seem to think otherwise including people who have seen more of him than I have. Maybe I caught some good games. I think importantly he has good potential as a forward. He presents well and leads at the ball really strongly. Can take a mark too. He is a much more natural forward than Keeffe is who got time in that role this year. I'd worry about being top heavy though as he has the mobility of a typical ruckman not some of the more athletic big guys that are playing that ruck role atm.

Agree with some of the above. He's potentially a good fwd/ruck. Disagree he was anywhere near ready to play seniors. Also think he is more mobile than you suggest.

Perhaps I'm thinking of his vertical standing leap, quite good.

 

[Quicky]

Agree with some of the above. He's potentially a good fwd/ruck. Disagree he was anywhere near ready to play seniors. Also think he is more mobile than you suggest.

Perhaps I'm thinking of his vertical standing leap, quite good.

Yeah I was definitely in the minority in regards to my thoughts on Ceglar. I'll stick by them though. I remember the last VFL game of the H&A season and he was up against Simpson and it was West or Vardy and did really well. Thats tough competition. On his mobility he is really good getting up the ground and presenting a target but I meant more in regards to his, agility is probably the right word, compared to some of his 2nd ruck competetion from other clubs. His mobility isn't bad by any stretch I agree.

 

[SchuPie]

Quicky: further to what you were saying re: Buckley and list management back on pg1, i think there is a pattern starting to emerge. Names such as Jamie Elliot, Kyal Horsley, the west coast boys - stevens/stevenson/smith are the ones being thrown around. I can see these players fitting into a style based upon elements of Geelong (corridor), Hawthorn (precise kicking) and Carlton (fleet of small, fast runners/goal kickers). Bucks has already said that he wants to see the football in players' hands more, a greater emphasis on skill of disposal and the players being mentioned seem to fit in with this policy...whether they come to fruition or not remains to be seen.

Whilst Bucks has reportedly said to players that there wont be major changes, this may or may not be true however i wouldn't be surprised what drafting/trading strategy we adopt.

Next week will be an nervous time - personally i want to hold onto our boys but sometimes moves need to be made and it will be interesting to see if we make moves or not.


On a side note, I did like the look of the tall red headed kid that Bucks was said to be talking to at the draft camp. Long penetrating kicks and a solid spoiler.

 

[Obese Arachnid]

Yeah I was definitely in the minority in regards to my thoughts on Ceglar. I'll stick by them though. I remember the last VFL game of the H&A season and he was up against Simpson and it was West or Vardy and did really well. Thats tough competition. On his mobility he is really good getting up the ground and presenting a target but I meant more in regards to his, agility is probably the right word, compared to some of his 2nd ruck competetion from other clubs. His mobility isn't bad by any stretch I agree.

I think of him & I think, mobile, sticky/ish hands & great leap, ruck or going for the mark. Not convinced he has football smarts re positioning but I've seen worse. Potential but just not ready. Sounds like you rate him this year to play a few games next year?

 

[Scodog10]

Arn't abductor and groin the same? ^.^

He was also clutching at his knee during the GF cant remember when, if u watch the reply u'll see it. Of course its hearsay but even if its not degenerative his still getting really injury prone late in his career he could even retire now.

Nah they're not. The adductor and groin are one and the same. However the abductor is on the outside of the leg and is used to pull the leg away from its mid point.

AFAIK it was his adductor that he injured though so you're probably right on that count, but Quicky may know something we don't.

 

[blaze036]

Nah they're not. The adductor and groin are one and the same. However the abductor is on the outside of the leg and is used to pull the leg away from its mid point.

AFAIK it was his adductor that he injured though so you're probably right on that count, but Quicky may know something we don't.

Wikipedia says it on the inside of the leg... the outside of the leg would be quad/hip flexor/hamstring.

also "A groin strain is a tear or rupture to any one of the adductor muscles" seems they are the same thing

 

[sr36]

Wikipedia says it on the inside of the leg... the outside of the leg would be quad/hip flexor/hamstring.

also "A groin strain is a tear or rupture to any one of the adductor muscles" seems they are the same thing

You may want to reread the post that you just quoted.

 

[Scodog10]

Wikipedia says it on the inside of the leg... the outside of the leg would be quad/hip flexor/hamstring.

also "A groin strain is a tear or rupture to any one of the adductor muscles" seems they are the same thing

Notice how I spelt aBductor and aDductor differently on purpose! They are two completely separate muscles that work on opposite sides of the leg.

Here is the wikipedia link for you explaining what abduction muscles do.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abduction_(kinesiology)

Abduction, in functional anatomy, is a movement which draws a limb away from the median (Sagittal) plane of the body. It is thus opposed to adduction.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abduction_(kinesiology)

Here's Quicky's original post so you realise I'm not just talking crap.

This is purely hearsay. What did you base this comment on again? Jollys injury in the Grand Final was a left groin (his jumping leg) and right abductor (his kicking side). It wasn't even knee related.

 

[blaze036]

its 12:30 abductor and adductor look the exact same!!

 

[Scodog10]

Lol its all good

 

[Quicky]

I think of him & I think, mobile, sticky/ish hands & great leap, ruck or going for the mark. Not convinced he has football smarts re positioning but I've seen worse. Potential but just not ready. Sounds like you rate him this year to play a few games next year?

I think that depends on how Wood goes. But i'd give him a chance of senior footy next year.

Nah they're not. The adductor and groin are one and the same. However the abductor is on the outside of the leg and is used to pull the leg away from its mid point.

AFAIK it was his adductor that he injured though so you're probably right on that count, but Quicky may know something we don't.

I think I just got confused.

 

[Jelly Bean]

Yeah I agree with that. Fortunately Hine has a good track record with obscure picks. Elliot could well be in this category. Going off the limited footage in the highlights he seems to have everything we are after besides the height. But that isn't always a limiting factor.

On Marty the thing I am most excited about is that we at times lacked spread this year and Marty is really good at this. His endurance is fantastic, he knows where to run, has great instinct and is damaging with his disposal.

I think in snaring a more than handy ready made player during our window and a very promising youngster in a position we are looking to add to is a big win in what is considered an even draft after the obvious top picks.

In regards to our fringe players it is my hope we keep as many as possible. We desperately require depth. The only reason i'd like to see us lose fringe players is because they request a trade for opportunities. In this instance it is poor form to stand in their way. The players that I think are most likely to look for opportunities elsewhere are McCarthy, Goldsack and Rounds.



Why do we need a mature ruckman? We have Jolly and Wood. Goldsack and Beams is massive massive overs for White regardless of what picks are thrown into the deal. Jesse White I like as a hypothertical as much for key forward insurance as his ruck ability.

And Sydneys 1st rounder will not get us anywhere near O'Meara. Totally inplausible.

I agree, the highlights package is good - but let's not lose sight of the fact that it was the same highlight package which got him overlooked by every single club (including ours) for every selection in the National, Preseason, and Rookie drafts.

I would caution against thinking this kid wil be any good based on the highlights package alone.

 

[Old Spice]

Yeah I was definitely in the minority in regards to my thoughts on Ceglar. I'll stick by them though. I remember the last VFL game of the H&A season and he was up against Simpson and it was West or Vardy and did really well. Thats tough competition. On his mobility he is really good getting up the ground and presenting a target but I meant more in regards to his, agility is probably the right word, compared to some of his 2nd ruck competetion from other clubs. His mobility isn't bad by any stretch I agree.

I thought we played the Zebras in the last VFL game.

 

[Quicky]

I thought we played the Zebras in the last VFL game.

You're right. The Geelong game was actually round 19. I was just thinking of it as our last game because it was the last game I got to see of Collingwood before I moved to Queensland.

 

[Scodog10]

This is purely me throwing something out there so don't take it as a rumour or any sort of chance at actually happening

Andrew Krackouer's management made some sensationalist claims in The Age in regards to salary. If that is truly the value that Jess will be seeking when he comes out of contract we unfortunately won't be able to afford to pay it. Therefore what would people's thoughts be about shopping him around to Melbourne and enquiring about Aaron Davey?

Davey fell out of favour towards the end of 2011, he's 4 months younger than Krak, he was the player that started the whole forward 50 pressure craze (which is something I think we missed this year), has elite kicking skills, can play up the ground if needed and IMO would flourish in a top 4 side. I think we'd have to throw something else in on top, but I was just after people's thought's on it more than stating that I want it to happen.

I'm more than happy with what Krackouer brought to the table this year, but he isn't worth $500,000 per season.

 

[Zahki]

Krakouer won't be getting 500,000 a season nor does he or his manager expect to. It's a ludicrously high figure so that they can barter down to what they really want "Gee, 300k is a lot lower than we wanted but we'll take it".

Personally I think it's a bit rich to be asking for a massive pay increase after one decent season. He's got a 2 year contract right? If I was the club I'd knock him back and say they'll extend it based on next years performance.

 

[Quicky]

I have some footage of Mitch Brewer a player we have reportedly shown some interest in. I'm not sure how much truth there is to the rumour however.

He is a 19yo 204cm, 110kg ruckman from Broadbeach in Queensland. He uses his height and size really well in the ruck and wins plenty of tap outs. And he is not afraid to throw his weight around in general play either. He has neat skills. He doesn't have a big leap and I think he needs to refine his ruck technique when he leaves the ground as he can mistime his leap at times. I'd compare him in style to Sandilands in the way he rucks.

Anyway judge for yourself:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ZALW42AA

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=VVOO0JI4

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=LIBFNE9J

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=NQ221CW7

 

[TradeDraft]

I have some footage of Mitch Brewer a player we have reportedly shown some interest in. I'm not sure how much truth there is to the rumour however.

He is a 19yo 204cm, 110kg ruckman from Broadbeach in Queensland. He uses his height and size really well in the ruck and wins plenty of tap outs. And he is not afraid to throw his weight around in general play either. He has neat skills. He doesn't have a big leap and I think he needs to refine his ruck technique when he leaves the ground as he can mistime his leap at times. I'd compare him in style to Sandilands in the way he rucks.

Anyway judge for yourself:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ZALW42AA

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=VVOO0JI4

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=LIBFNE9J

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=NQ221CW7

Where did you hear this from Quicky?

 

[blaze036]

I have some footage of Mitch Brewer a player we have reportedly shown some interest in. I'm not sure how much truth there is to the rumour however.

He is a 19yo 204cm, 110kg ruckman from Broadbeach in Queensland. He uses his height and size really well in the ruck and wins plenty of tap outs. And he is not afraid to throw his weight around in general play either. He has neat skills. He doesn't have a big leap and I think he needs to refine his ruck technique when he leaves the ground as he can mistime his leap at times. I'd compare him in style to Sandilands in the way he rucks.

Anyway judge for yourself:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ZALW42AA

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=VVOO0JI4

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=LIBFNE9J

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=NQ221CW7

why would we want THREE 19-20 year old ruckmen?

 

[carnthepies19]

This is purely me throwing something out there so don't take it as a rumour or any sort of chance at actually happening

Andrew Krackouer's management made some sensationalist claims in The Age in regards to salary. If that is truly the value that Jess will be seeking when he comes out of contract we unfortunately won't be able to afford to pay it. Therefore what would people's thoughts be about shopping him around to Melbourne and enquiring about Aaron Davey?

Davey fell out of favour towards the end of 2011, he's 4 months younger than Krak, he was the player that started the whole forward 50 pressure craze (which is something I think we missed this year), has elite kicking skills, can play up the ground if needed and IMO would flourish in a top 4 side. I think we'd have to throw something else in on top, but I was just after people's thought's on it more than stating that I want it to happen.

I'm more than happy with what Krackouer brought to the table this year, but he isn't worth $500,000 per season.

I can't see Kraks walking out on us if we don't offer him 500,000 a year. We did give him the lifeline and he should be grateful for it. I think 350-400 is more on the mark.

However, our salary cap situation won't be as tight at the end of next season with Davis, Johnson, Taz, Jolly nearing the end of their careers. iirc Jonno said he was going to see how he goes next year and it will probably be his last.

 

[carnthepies19]

why would we want THREE 19-20 year old ruckmen?

Probably because we need them. Now we don't have that backup ruckman in Brown, Jolly and Wood will most likely have to play in the same team to allow for backup.

After Jolly (Who you'd think will retire at the end of his contract) and Wood, there's only the young ones who can ruck, in Ceglar and Witts (next year)

We either get a replacement who is ready made, or develop the kids. I'd take the kids any day, mainly because they will be around for longer, and the ready made rucks would just be the rejects/ second or third string of their previous clubs. I haven't seen a 1st Ruckman who has requested a trade to Vic this year, or requested a trade at all.

 

[Knightmare]

I have some footage of Mitch Brewer a player we have reportedly shown some interest in. I'm not sure how much truth there is to the rumour however.

He is a 19yo 204cm, 110kg ruckman from Broadbeach in Queensland. He uses his height and size really well in the ruck and wins plenty of tap outs. And he is not afraid to throw his weight around in general play either. He has neat skills. He doesn't have a big leap and I think he needs to refine his ruck technique when he leaves the ground as he can mistime his leap at times. I'd compare him in style to Sandilands in the way he rucks.

Anyway judge for yourself:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ZALW42AA

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=VVOO0JI4

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=LIBFNE9J

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=NQ221CW7

Good find.

Can't see the videos because it says that it has moved?

But Brewer is one i've liked for a while now.

Have made mention of him a couple of times in my list management thread.

Really big fan of his game and like his potential at his size. Is from a rugby background and is only new to footy. VERY powerful unit.
I had him listed at 204cm, 119kg. But perhaps he has lost some weight and trimmed down a bit.

More of your old style powerhouse - Ben Hudson/Damian Monkhorst.

Very, very keen to get him. Whether it be through a late pick or through the rookie draft.

Could be that other long term ruck investment along with Witts and Ceglar to really set up our future. Since we won't have any early picks now is the time to load up on these ruckman (since the quality often does come late/rookie) - even though we already have Witts + Ceglar in much the same age group I'd still do it.

 

[Scodog10]

I can't see Kraks walking out on us if we don't offer him 500,000 a year. We did give him the lifeline and he should be grateful for it. I think 350-400 is more on the mark.

However, our salary cap situation won't be as tight at the end of next season with Davis, Johnson, Taz, Jolly nearing the end of their careers. iirc Jonno said he was going to see how he goes next year and it will probably be his last.

The bloke is probably in or around the bottom 6 of our best 22, but if he were to move onto that sort of money ($350,000-$400,000) he'd be in the top 10 highest paid at the club.

Didak in the middle of an AA season (2010), while younger than what Krackouer is now, signed on at $400,000 a season. Jolly a star recruit signed on at $400,000 a season. Krackouer's value IMO is around the average AFL wage because honestly that's all he is an ok AFL footballer and that would leave him at around $250,000.

Considering his manager is asking for double that he'd want to smarten up a bit, because coming out and commenting on contracts a year before it expires asking for double what he's worth isn't good for his client!

 

[Burns2008]

I have some footage of Mitch Brewer a player we have reportedly shown some interest in. I'm not sure how much truth there is to the rumour however.

He is a 19yo 204cm, 110kg ruckman from Broadbeach in Queensland. He uses his height and size really well in the ruck and wins plenty of tap outs. And he is not afraid to throw his weight around in general play either. He has neat skills. He doesn't have a big leap and I think he needs to refine his ruck technique when he leaves the ground as he can mistime his leap at times. I'd compare him in style to Sandilands in the way he rucks.

Anyway judge for yourself:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ZALW42AA

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=VVOO0JI4

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=LIBFNE9J

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=NQ221CW7

i think we will stick with jolly wood ceglar witts &keefe 4 a couple of years!

 

[Kirby]

The bloke is probably in or around the bottom 6 of our best 22, but if he were to move onto that sort of money ($350,000-$400,000) he'd be in the top 10 highest paid at the club.

Didak in the middle of an AA season (2010), while younger than what Krackouer is now, signed on at $400,000 a season. Jolly a star recruit signed on at $400,000 a season. Krackouer's value IMO is around the average AFL wage because honestly that's all he is an ok AFL footballer and that would leave him at around $250,000.

Considering his manager is asking for double that he'd want to smarten up a bit, because coming out and commenting on contracts a year before it expires asking for double what he's worth isn't good for his client!

Exactly. Excellent post mate and I agree with those figures.