Preview R1: Changes vs. Collingwood

[AFC979810]

What is our plan for T. Murray when he's not being the backup to McAndrew? Does he have a role up forward if Thilthorpe, Fogarty and Walker are already there? Are we using him down back?

Surely he's not just going to sit on the bench for 60% of the match.

If we carry both McAndrew and T Murray - they will both have between 50% & 65% TOG.

It's what happened with all 3 teams that tried to carry a backup. ZZ with Brisbane had 44% game time. Ready for Carlton had 61%. Marshall *was injured but had 64%.

 

[FR0GGY]

An 80% fit filthy plays imo.

Not sure you do that with a back issue, or is it groin?

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Not sure you do that with a back issue, or is it groin?

Depends on the likelihood of making it worse.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Not sure you do that with a back issue, or is it groin?

An interesting early test of our 2025 learnings

Players pushed through the pain barrier last year. They stayed on the park. We had great success with that approach... initially.

But it caught up to us by the end of the season.

Chasing short term wins cost us longer term success.

Over to you, Nicksy.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Plus if they send Perryman to Dawson and we want to play Dawson forward more too

Lyon sent NWM to full forward to shake Ferryman & he ended up having less influence on the game.

No issue with Dawson pushing forward from the midfield after a CBA or odd rest up forward... but we can't win if he spends most time up forward.

Begs the question what do we have planned to curb N Daicos?

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Wow, never realised he has NEVER. Been killed by Qaynor

Looked across past games. Walker and Fog generally have had a better run than Filthy. Rachelle, Ah Chee and Rankine have gone OK, but Pedlar has been better.

Marsh would be a good inclusion rather than Soligo

Perhaps we need Keays to tag J Daicos or their most dangerous back.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Begs the question what do we have planned to curb N Daicos?

Bond tried tagging someone last year in the midfield but without much success from memory...? Much better on the small forwards.

And Berry vs Newcombe lingers in the mind.

Not sure that we have a midfield lockdown player

40+ for Daicos feels inevitable, and it always feels like 70+ because his brother gets called so often

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Bond tried tagging someone last year in the midfield but without much success from memory...? Much better on the small forwards.

And Berry vs Newcombe lingers in the mind.

Not sure that we have a midfield lockdown player

40+ for Daicos feels inevitable, and it always feels like 70+ because his brother gets called so often

Perhaps Peatling?

If Dawson is being shut down, would move him on to N Daicos.

 

[Cromulant]

Perhaps Peatling?

If Dawson is being shut down, would move him on to N Daicos.

How fit is Peatling I wonder.

He'd be the man if he's 100% right to go.

 

[FR0GGY]

Not sure you do that with a back issue, or is it groin?

Well yes that goes with any injury, but does any back injury get better with anything other than rest?

 

[FR0GGY]

How fit is Peatling I wonder.

He'd be the man if he's 100% right to go.

He’ll get fit pretty quickly chasing Nick.

 

[AFC979810]

An interesting early test of our 2025 learnings

Players pushed through the pain barrier last year. They stayed on the park. We had great success with that approach... initially.

But it caught up to us by the end of the season.

Chasing short term wins cost us longer term success.

Over to you, Nicksy.

This is such silliness.

You used to be critical of the club pushing to make the 8 to see what could happen. Now you are unhappy we were pushing for a top 2 spot and guarantee of 2 home finals?

Which players needed a rest? We had two players in our best 23 over the age of 30 - Laird was rested in Rd 23 and Walker given a rest in Rd 22.

We had an 11 day break between Rd 24 and our home final.

The Lions had 13 players play 26 or more games. We had 13 players play 24 or more games.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

This is such silliness.

You used to be critical of the club pushing to make the 8 to see what could happen. Now you are unhappy we were pushing for a top 2 spot and guarantee of 2 home finals?

Which players needed a rest? We had two players in our best 23 over the age of 30 - Laird was rested in Rd 23 and Walker given a rest in Rd 22.

We had an 11 day break between Rd 24 and our home final.

The Lions had 13 players play 26 or more games. We had 13 players play 24 or more games.

I get it

You were singing our praises all season right up to our last few minor round slogs and didn't see the finals results coming

So you have to do this now

 

[AFC979810]

I get it

You were singing our praises all season right up to our last few minor round slogs and didn't see the finals results coming

So you have to do this now

Ha. I thought we were impressive during the regular season. And I felt we were still very impressive right before the finals when we won 9 straight games.

I mean rd 23 when we beat Collingwood - it was upside central. Remember this?

Great win

So much upside

Dawson didn't have a big game
Rankine didn't have a big game
Thilthorpe didn't have a big game
We will never lose the midfield that badly again in the history of the club
We will never give up that big an I50 discrepancy ever again
Max to add
Rachele to add

And still won

Once more. We had 2 players over 30 and rested them both in the three weeks leading up to our finals campaign.

Specifically - who else did you want rested?

It's an absolutely laughable premise. Why weren't the Hawks fatigued with their 15+ players that played 24+ games? Same as the Lions. Shit - even Geelong had 14 players play 24+ games. Didn't we have one of the most sought out fitness guys in the AFL?

 

[Scorpus]

You'd hope the players were injured heading into finals, because the alternate is worse

 

[AFC979810]

You'd hope the players were injured heading into finals, because the alternate is worse

Who were all these injured players?

 

[Scorpus]

Who were all these injured players?

Supposedly guys like Dawson and Soligo were injured, that was the excuse used to justify how bad they were. And then there was the whole "the players got sick" angle.

I don't buy it personally, I reckon the players were fit to play. They were just rubbish.

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

What is our plan for T. Murray when he's not being the backup to McAndrew? Does he have a role up forward if Thilthorpe, Fogarty and Walker are already there? Are we using him down back?

Surely he's not just going to sit on the bench for 60% of the match.

I hate the fact the new ruck rule means we’ll play a second ruck in the additional bench position. I agree we don’t want TT getting smashed into.

If we are going to play a second ruck to protect TT from centre bounces then I have a controversial question - is Turray a better second ruck option than ROB

 

[AFCCroweater]

Supposedly guys like Dawson and Soligo were injured, that was the excuse used to justify how bad they were. And then there was the whole "the players got sick" angle.

I don't buy it personally, I reckon the players were fit to play. They were just rubbish.

Dawson was on one leg during the back end of the season - was limping every week. However everyone, including opposition, is carrying something at that time of year so no agree that there’s no excuses

 

[cmndstab]

I hate the fact the new ruck rule means we’ll play a second ruck in the additional bench position. I agree we don’t want TT getting smashed into.

If we are going to play a second ruck to protect TT from centre bounces then I have a controversial question - is Turray a better second ruck option than ROB

This is exactly what I was starting to drive at in my previous post. If our only plan for T. Murray is "fill in when McAndrew needs a rest so we don't have to use Thilthorpe there" then why not just play ROB in that spot?

Hell, if McAndrew is better in the centre clearances but ROB is better in general stoppages... why not just have McAndrew rotate on for every centre clearance, and then swap back with ROB after a few minutes?

It's obviously a silly idea, but is it any sillier than having Murray warming the bench for the majority of the match?

 

[Cromulant]

This is exactly what I was starting to drive at in my previous post. If our only plan for T. Murray is "fill in when McAndrew needs a rest so we don't have to use Thilthorpe there" then why not just play ROB in that spot?

Hell, if McAndrew is better in the centre clearances but ROB is better in general stoppages... why not just have McAndrew rotate on for every centre clearance, and then swap back with ROB after a few minutes?

It's obviously a silly idea, but is it any sillier than having Murray warming the bench for the majority of the match?

I reckon the plan will include giving Tex more of a spell, not just having Turray ruck when McAndrew doesn't.

Not that it makes it a better plan mind you.

 

[Scorpus]

This is exactly what I was starting to drive at in my previous post. If our only plan for T. Murray is "fill in when McAndrew needs a rest so we don't have to use Thilthorpe there" then why not just play ROB in that spot?

Hell, if McAndrew is better in the centre clearances but ROB is better in general stoppages... why not just have McAndrew rotate on for every centre clearance, and then swap back with ROB after a few minutes?

It's obviously a silly idea, but is it any sillier than having Murray warming the bench for the majority of the match?

I don't agree with this strategy, but the possible justification would be to keep 3 tall forwards on the ground at all times

Last season, Fogarty averaged 82% TOG, Thilthorpe 80% TOG, Walker 76% TOG. So to maintain 3 talls, you'd need a bench player rotating forward for 62% TOG

Then you'd probably have McAndrew resting on the bench 20% of the time (most AFL rucks average 80%+ TOG) so Murray would end up with around 80% TOG

 

[Coopers]

I don't agree with this strategy, but the possible justification would be to keep 3 tall forwards on the ground at all times

Last season, Fogarty averaged 82% TOG, Thilthorpe 80% TOG, Walker 76% TOG. So to maintain 3 talls, you'd need a bench player rotating forward for 62% TOG

Then you'd probably have McAndrew resting on the bench 20% of the time (most AFL rucks average 80%+ TOG) so Murray would end up with around 80% TOG

Surely with 5 on the bench we also need a tall player there for coverage if a KPD or KPF is injured as well.

Like, if Butts has to go off the field, we need to do... something... better than "Sorry Woz, no rebounding from you this game".

 

[Redline]

I reckon the plan will include giving Tex more of a spell, not just having Turray ruck when McAndrew doesn't.

Not that it makes it a better plan mind you.

I can't see them all playing in many games. Tex doesn't have enough impact now a days to nurse him through games. He isn't a Pendlebury or Papley type. I think he either plays or doesn't.

It feels at the moment clubs see the 23rd player as a bonus and extra flexibility but history says eventually the extra player turns into a running type.

 

[cmndstab]

I don't agree with this strategy, but the possible justification would be to keep 3 tall forwards on the ground at all times

Last season, Fogarty averaged 82% TOG, Thilthorpe 80% TOG, Walker 76% TOG. So to maintain 3 talls, you'd need a bench player rotating forward for 62% TOG

Then you'd probably have McAndrew resting on the bench 20% of the time (most AFL rucks average 80%+ TOG) so Murray would end up with around 80% TOG

So the plan is to play T. Murray up forward for the majority of the game?

What did we do last season when one of our tall forwards had a rest?