Prediction R11: Changes vs Collingwood

[stax on the mull]

I have the feeling they had to drop one - either Ballantyne or Matera, and keep one for team balance.

I supposed neither feels aggrieved that their getting preferential treatment over the other, so it softens the blow a bit, probably more so for Ballantyne who has never been dropped before.

 

[BlueE]

The Premiership coach from last season when interviewed OTC said that goal scoring was secondary to tackling and forward pressure, so what Lyon has said to Matera isn't something new actually I've heard a fair few coaches say that as well.

I'd be surprised if you hadn't heard that. But have you heard other coaches say don't worry about goals to one of their better potential scorers. We haven't had targets in attack to kick to after Tab's injury and surely Matera has to be encouraged in this department, instead "that's enough of that, we want 10 tackles" attitude.

As it been pointed out RFC took control and added very experienced assistant coaches for their premiership (Collingwood the same this year) instead of sacking the coach. Also whether because of this or not, RFC never ignored scoring and their skills and game plan for offensive transition from defensive pressure is very effective. This year from first 10 rounds RFC have scored over 100 points 7 times for wins and never scored under 81 points (1 W & 2 L).

RTB had his very good assistants leave at end of 2016 and during 2016, but were replaced with his "yes men".

 

[Jack Richards]

Last year the WA side was full of experienced guys who were no chance of making an AFL list again. Only Tim Kelly was a realistic chance and he was selected because he was better than everyone else despite being younger.

What about the other guy, Schloithe? (spelling?) he was hyped in the media?

 

[TheInjuryFactory]

What about the other guy, Schloithe? (spelling?) he was hyped in the media?

WA media mostly.

I thought the knock on him from his time at Freo was attitude and application, that's a hard tag to shake once it sticks.

Shame, has been consistently good at Souths for several years now.

 

[FreoRicci]

Matera brought in to kick goals yet Ross wants him to focus more defensively. That's the problem right there. Limiting these players' potential and growth for a defensive gameplan. Mayne would be lauded for getting 10 tackles and no goals ahead of kicking 3 goals and 2 tackles. Ridiculous

 

[Demons09]

I'd be surprised if you hadn't heard that. But have you heard other coaches say don't worry about goals to one of their better potential scorers. We haven't had targets in attack to kick to after Tab's injury and surely Matera has to be encouraged in this department, instead "that's enough of that, we want 10 tackles" attitude.

As it been pointed out RFC took control and added very experienced assistant coaches for their premiership (Collingwood the same this year) instead of sacking the coach. Also whether because of this or not, RFC never ignored scoring and their skills and game plan for offensive transition from defensive pressure is very effective. This year from first 10 rounds RFC have scored over 100 points 7 times for wins and never scored under 81 points (1 W & 2 L).

RTB had his very good assistants leave at end of 2016 and during 2016, but were replaced with his "yes men".

I'm not arguing with you that's what a Premiership coach has said , doesn't matter what Ross has told Matera the facts are Matera hasn't worked hard enough in recent games to put pressure on in the fwd line , which in turn turns into scoring opportunities and I guess that's why he's being dropped.

 

[Tbonefreo]

WA media mostly.

I thought the knock on him from his time at Freo was attitude and application, that's a hard tag to shake once it sticks.

Shame, has been consistently good at Souths for several years now.

Youd think attitude and application tags would be the easiest to shake. Perception wise that is. Turn up first have a crack. Be positive. Piece of piss

 

[GoFreo4eva]

I'd be surprised if you hadn't heard that. But have you heard other coaches say don't worry about goals to one of their better potential scorers. We haven't had targets in attack to kick to after Tab's injury and surely Matera has to be encouraged in this department, instead "that's enough of that, we want 10 tackles" attitude.

As it been pointed out RFC took control and added very experienced assistant coaches for their premiership (Collingwood the same this year) instead of sacking the coach. Also whether because of this or not, RFC never ignored scoring and their skills and game plan for offensive transition from defensive pressure is very effective. This year from first 10 rounds RFC have scored over 100 points 7 times for wins and never scored under 81 points (1 W & 2 L).

RTB had his very good assistants leave at end of 2016 and during 2016, but were replaced with his "yes men".

If you read the quote form Matera he said Ross hasn’t talked to him about kicking goals he did not say don’t worry about goals. I would argue Ross and the other coaches would spend more time on what needs to be added to someone’s game rather than pumping up their tryres about what they already do well. It is just absurd to think that even the most defensive of coaches are not worried about scoring goals and would actually tell someone not to worry about it. They will however expect that if there is a deficiency in someone’s game they will work on improving that while maintaining what they already do well. Staggers me how a quote can be interpreted so differently than what was actually said.

 

[Docker82]

What about the other guy, Schloithe? (spelling?) he was hyped in the media?

Perhaps he’s a realistic chance of getting drafted again - perhaps not. I don’t really know what AFL recruiters are thinking.

Point is on top of Tim Kelly, Scott Jones, Bailey Banfield, Zac Langdon, Matt Guelfi and Liam Baker were (Liam Ryan is another but missed due to injury) drafted. None played that day other than Kelly.

Instead we played Andrew Strijk, Kyal Horsley, Patrick McGinnity, Blayne Wilson, Clint Jones, Ben Saunders, Leroy Jetta and Ryan Cook.

David Mirra, Cam O’Shea, Sam Switkowski and Brodie Mihocek were drafted from the VFL side. A heap of guys who got talked about a lot around draft time too and still may be drafted. Bailey Fritsch was the only other VFL player drafted. Whilst there’s past AFL talent there only really Nahas was too old for another shot.

 

[Kram]

Matera brought in to kick goals yet Ross wants him to focus more defensively. That's the problem right there. Limiting these players' potential and growth for a defensive gameplan. Mayne would be lauded for getting 10 tackles and no goals ahead of kicking 3 goals and 2 tackles. Ridiculous

Do you really believe this rubbish?

 

[One_Wing]

Matera brought in to kick goals yet Ross wants him to focus more defensively. That's the problem right there. Limiting these players' potential and growth for a defensive gameplan. Mayne would be lauded for getting 10 tackles and no goals ahead of kicking 3 goals and 2 tackles. Ridiculous

That dastardly Ross sure hates goals

 

[FreoRicci]

Do you really believe this rubbish?

At times yes. More emphasis on defending the lead, minimizing the damage instead of attacking, taking the game on.
Look at last week vs North. No forwards within the 70m of the goals at times, and the kicks forward often intercepted easily by the spare defender. It's no secret opposition are smart in knowing we're going to bomb to a relatively empty forward line, when we have smalls no where near the packs. See McGovern/ Hurn, Rance. Hell even Lake won a freaking Norm Smith from it. Forwards are forced to be defensive minded up the ground, pushing them up from their forward 50. It happened a bit in 2012 before Ross got it right. There has to be some sort of balance that requires players to stay deeper then what their role is under Ross.

 

[Docker82]

Defensively we are as bad as I’ve seen. We’ve put together a back six that can play but our midfield can’t tackle or pressure bar maybe three or four out of the eight odd blokes we throw through there. Our forward line is even worse in that regard with only Walters any good in that regard. The fact that our three regular first year players are always in the top five for us every game for tackles and pressure acts says it all for me.

I feel for Matera as I reckon he should play closer to goal but he doesn’t offer enough defensively atm. I really do think he should’ve been given a go much closer to goal rather than getting dropped. If you think us getting better is as simple as kicking more goals then I’m not really sure you really know the game.

Watch Richmond or West Coast play and see how many goals come from defensive pressure in the forward half then think of us - it seems to be close to none in the last few weeks. It just bounces out of our fifty like we’re playing basketball whether it’s mark by opposition or whether it hits the ground.

 

[Kram]

At times yes. More emphasis on defending the lead, minimizing the damage instead of attacking, taking the game on.
Look at last week vs North. No forwards within the 70m of the goals at times, and the kicks forward often intercepted easily by the spare defender. It's no secret opposition are smart in knowing we're going to bomb to a relatively empty forward line, when we have smalls no where near the packs. See McGovern/ Hurn, Rance. Hell even Lake won a freaking Norm Smith from it. Forwards are forced to be defensive minded up the ground, pushing them up from their forward 50. It happened a bit in 2012 before Ross got it right. There has to be some sort of balance that requires players to stay deeper then what their role is under Ross.

Ridiculous hyperbole with your Mayne comment though.

Also I know Ross leans towards the far end but watching on TV this is how all the other teams play with so few players forward.

Nobody deliberately bombs it long as a common 'plan' either, it's just a last resort when there is no other option when strategy moving it forward otherwise isn't working.

 

[BlueE]

I'm not arguing with you that's what a Premiership coach has said , doesn't matter what Ross has told Matera the facts are Matera hasn't worked hard enough in recent games to put pressure on in the fwd line , which in turn turns into scoring opportunities and I guess that's why he's being dropped.

Then you're taking the quote out of context and missing the point. Can't compare Richmond with eight wins with their lowest score of 81 and seven wins over 100 points to Freo with four wins, two over 100 points at home. Head to head Freo loses 33-110. Other losing scores from 51, 52, 54, 58, 59, 60 and 81.

Freo has a big problem getting ball into forwards. I don't think the problem is Matera not working hard enough on defence in the middle of the ground. That's exactly what he's been doing but it's not the right plan for scoring.

 

[BlueE]

If you read the quote form Matera he said Ross hasn’t talked to him about kicking goals he did not say don’t worry about goals. I would argue Ross and the other coaches would spend more time on what needs to be added to someone’s game rather than pumping up their tryres about what they already do well. It is just absurd to think that even the most defensive of coaches are not worried about scoring goals and would actually tell someone not to worry about it. They will however expect that if there is a deficiency in someone’s game they will work on improving that while maintaining what they already do well. Staggers me how a quote can be interpreted so differently than what was actually said.

This is the actual quote from Matera from a radio interview 3 months ago.

“Ross hasn't really said much about scoring goals,” the ex-Gold Coast small forward said.

“Everyone loves to kick a goal, but my role at the moment is just the pressure stuff, doing the right things for the team, being in the right spots and then the goals are the bonus.”

His role is just the pressure stuff doing the right things for the team being in the right spots and goals are the bonus. This gives you a very good insight into the priorities of the coach and game plan.

I argue that you should have an attacking game plan instead of relying on pressuring defenders to make mistakes when they gain possession because you lose it 8 times out of 10 bombing it. Freo have played well when the defense have broken the lines and ran forward bringing the extra player forward with them. Often breaks down against the better teams with skill errors under pressure.

 

[Johnny Dalmas]

Perhaps one of the issues with Matera has been a lack of run. When you press up the ground you need to run hard back into space when we have the ball.
If you don't run hard you don't get into position in time to either kick goals or cause forward pressure.
Perhaps at GC he could get away with less running because they didn't press up as much as we do.

 

[Johnny Dalmas]

What about the other guy, Schloithe? (spelling?) he was hyped in the media?

I think Haiden might be one of those guys who doesn't have the weapons to make an impact at AFL, even though he is a good state league player.
Mind you I thought the same about Menegola.

 

[FD2646]

I think Haiden might be one of those guys who doesn't have the weapons to make an impact at AFL, even though he is a good state league player.
Mind you I thought the same about Menegola.

I reckon you are correct on Haiden. On the comparison with Menegola, he has height, strength, endurance and attitude all over Haiden.

 

[apuchar]

FINAL INTERCHANGES
Collingwood: Adam Treloar, Tom Langdon, Josh Daicos, Jaidyn Stephenson
Fremantle: Adam Cerra, Andrew Brayshaw, Connor Blakely, Cam McCarthy

 

[freo_leo29]

Ross has said, Johnno has been a really good player, Pearce has been reasonable but Ballas was struggling, said all 3 out of form so was pretty easy to drop them in the end.

Says that we needed wins at the new stadium but always had planned to get some more youth in as its needed.

pre game interview