Preview R2: Changes v Port

[FR0GGY]

Where is Spangher?

Extended Easter

 

[Sanders]

Well on this topic I reckon everyone is agreeing with me. I called this almost a year ago:

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/vb-put-a-fork-in-him.1098362/

A year ago????

Just one year? What took you so long.

 

[Samcro24]

Can Doedee fill this role eventually?

Don't know much about him. Good to see he gets a crack in the SANFL side this week

Yeah I think that's the idea. Lever too hopefully.

 

[cmndstab]

Good to see we've returned to a more sensible defensive structure - that said, I'm assuming Lever now plays a bit more of a third tall role, which I prefer him in at this stage of his career.

As bad as VB was last week, he wasn't any worse than Milera. In eras past, we would have kept the more experienced player, backing him in to "return to the form we know he can produce", while Milera hasn't had a chance to prove the level of form he can achieve. I'm glad that philosophy seems to have been reversed to the more sensible strategy of favouring a younger player over an experienced player when they're tied on form.

Hopefully this is a message to the likes of Mackay. Nobody is untouchable. If we're willing to drop VB after one bad game, we'll be happy to drop you after one bad game as well if there is anyone in form waiting in the wings - which there is.

Port are rightly favourites and I suspect they'll win this week, but at least things are slowly moving in the right direction.

 

[Elite Crow]

Good to see we've returned to a more sensible defensive structure - that said, I'm assuming Lever now plays a bit more of a third tall role, which I prefer him in at this stage of his career.

As bad as VB was last week, he wasn't any worse than Milera. In eras past, we would have kept the more experienced player, backing him in to "return to the form we know he can produce", while Milera hasn't had a chance to prove the level of form he can achieve. I'm glad that philosophy seems to have been reversed to the more sensible strategy of favouring a younger player over an experienced player when they're tied on form.

Hopefully this is a message to the likes of Mackay. Nobody is untouchable. If we're willing to drop VB after one bad game, we'll be happy to drop you after one bad game as well if there is anyone in form waiting in the wings - which there is.

Port are rightly favourites and I suspect they'll win this week, but at least things are slowly moving in the right direction.

Why did you have to spoil a good post by thinking Port will win.

**** that, we are going to win.

 

[Tex200]

I think one thing that's been glossed over with VB out is we kept McGovern and Milera in.

As Sanders pointed out in another thread, under previous coaches we would have gone safe, especially given its a Showdown.

We are playing 2 guys for only their second game.

Well done Pykey.

Spot on.

One thing I will say in my own defence - I was clear that who went out was always more important than who came in.

I have to say I do have some lingering concerns at how we structure up when Westhoff goes on tour as he always does and we are left looking a bit top heavy.

With that said, I like most, am just happy that Pyke has held his nerve and did not take the easy option in axing either of the 2 first gamers. VB has been a stoic servant of the club but really, I hope that's it now.

Good signs

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

Spot on.

One thing I will say in my own defence - I was clear that who went out was always more important than who came in.

I have to say I do have some lingering concerns at how we structure up when Westhoff goes on tour as he always does and we are left looking a bit top heavy.

With that said, I like most, am just happy that Pyke has held his nerve and did not take the easy option in axing either of the 2 first gamers. VB has been a stoic servant of the club but really, I hope that's it now.

Good signs

I wonder if it's too early for us to experiment with Lever in the middle.

 

[Tex200]

I wonder if it's too early for us to experiment with Lever in the middle.

It's not Westhoff per se that's the issue imo, it's his exit from their f50 which then leaves us with 3 talls against a more mobile unit.

6 of 1 I suppose as if we go in with 2 talls they load up with 3 keeping Westhoff closer to goal.

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

It's not Westhoff per se that's the issue imo, it's his exit from their f50 which then leaves us with 3 talls against a more mobile unit.

6 of 1 I suppose as if we go in with 2 talls they load up with 3 keeping Westhoff closer to goal.

that's what I'm saying, If westhoff moves out of the 50, so could Lever, keeping the talls even. I doubt we'd do it though.

 

[Schulzycrow]

True, but it was tentative. Would you like to see Menzal and Knight?

Think if players don't perform Knight, Cameron and Menzel will be in sooner rather than later..Hendo too.
Speeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed.!

 

[Jack is Back]

I think the "discussion" regarding our best defence will continue all season. Was Brodie Smith being outmarked on four occasions (= 4 goals) a one off or is he not suited to our new whiz bang team defence? Can Hartigan, Talia and Brown change from excellent one-on-one defenders to effectively guard their zone and know when to drop off their opponent? The only thing that is clear to me (but not to everyone on BF) is that vB is very unlikely to stage a Lazarus-like recovery.

Just to clarify things, we will continue to rotate 7 players (last week Talia, Lever, Cheney, Brown, Laird, Smith and van Berlo) through the back six. They averaged just over 86 minutes TOG each, you do the maths. Seedsman had a 2 minute stint in the back six in the third quarter when Luke Brown came on after a goal and couldn't get back into position before the ball was bounced. I expect a combination of injuries and form to result in Henderson (although I prefer to see him on the wing), Shaw, Otten, Hampton and even Kelly and Doedee get a run this year.

I dispute that our midfield is hopeless. The Kangaroos are considered to have one of the better midfields and despite Goldsteins dominance late in the game, we were slightly ahead on stoppages and inside 50s. IMHO our weakness as usual was our outside mids (Atkins, Mackay and Seedsman) who didn't get enough ball. Once we add Knight, Henderson, Cameron, Menzel to the mix, I expect things to change.

I believe we are 3-4 weeks away from playing some very good footy, hopefully we won't be 0-6 by then. We must win 2 of our first 4 matches and the two most winnable games were always going to be Poort and Richmond (thank god it's at Etihad).

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

I think the "discussion" regarding our best defence will continue all season. Was Brodie Smith being outmarked on four occasions (= 4 goals) a one off or is he not suited to our new whiz bang team defence? Can Hartigan, Talia and Brown change from excellent one-on-one defenders to effectively guard their zone and know when to drop off their opponent? The only thing that is clear to me (but not to everyone on BF) is that vB is very unlikely to stage a Lazarus-like recovery.

Just to clarify things, we will continue to rotate 7 players (last week Talia, Lever, Cheney, Brown, Laird, Smith and van Berlo) through the back six. They averaged just over 86 minutes TOG each, you do the maths. Seedsman had a 2 minute stint in the back six in the third quarter when Luke Brown came on after a goal and couldn't get back into position before the ball was bounced. I expect a combination of injuries and form to result in Henderson (although I prefer to see him on the wing), Shaw, Otten, Hampton and even Kelly and Doedee get a run this year.

I dispute that our midfield is hopeless. The Kangaroos are considered to have one of the better midfields and despite Goldsteins dominance late in the game, we were slightly ahead on stoppages and inside 50s. IMHO our weakness as usual was our outside mids (Atkins, Mackay and Seedsman) who didn't get enough ball. Once we add Knight, Henderson, Cameron, Menzel to the mix, I expect things to change.

I believe we are 3-4 weeks away from playing some very good footy, hopefully we won't be 0-6 by then. We must win 2 of our first 4 matches and the two most winnable games were always going to be Poort and Richmond (thank god it's at Etihad).

Smith is not a lock down defender. Look at him on Tory Dickson last year. He is a rebounding defender. He can't be trusted to stop an opposition player and it would be a folly for us to expect him to.

 

[Jack is Back]

Smith is not a lock down defender. Look at him on Tory Dickson last year. He is a rebounding defender. He can't be trusted to stop an opposition player and it would be a folly for us to expect him to.

This was fine in the days that most teams played a 5 man forward line. Most teams are now following the Hawthorn lead and keeping 6 players in front of the ball. This means every defender needs to be able to win one-on-one contests and also needs to provide some rebound.

It wouldn't surprise me to see Brodie play the second half of the season on the wing.

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

This was fine in the days that most teams played a 5 man forward line. Most teams are now following the Hawthorn lead and keeping 6 players in front of the ball. This means every defender needs to be able to win one-on-one contests and also needs to provide some rebound.

It wouldn't surprise me to see Brodie play the second half of the season on the wing.

Agree. I imagine hamptons injury has kept smith back for now.

 

[Apsaalooke]

Smith is not a lock down defender. Look at him on Tory Dickson last year. He is a rebounding defender. He can't be trusted to stop an opposition player and it would be a folly for us to expect him to.

In fact he really isn't a defender at all. He should be our release player further up the field either kicking goals or putting in deep forward 50 entries. We've had our outside runner all along but no coach has noticed it. Hopefully the Don will

 

[Wright Away]

So important to win now. If Port kick the first goal even I can see the club pushing the panic button and rushing VB straight back out there.

After one 22 disposal game in the 2nds where he isn't even in the top 8 players on the ground.

 

[Wright Away]

Need Smithers in the midfield. Need more class there.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

 

[Thylacinus]

Port are rightly favourites and I suspect they'll win this week, but at least things are slowly moving in the right direction.

I said last week North were rightly the favorites, and I agree Port rightly are, but I am not convinced that they will beat us. We showed last Saturday that we can maintain intensity and will not roll over against quality opposition. We took it up to a very good North side at near full strength with Wells back and all of their hardened seasoned veterans as fresh as they will be all year, and with a bit of luck and extra discipline could have won. I am not saying we will win this Saturday. I am saying that we are a very good chance and that if we go down it won't be by much and not without a fight. In fact I like our tough draw this year with a lot of quality opposition as I think we will see a lot of high quality games as we did last Saturday evening.

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

Good to see we've returned to a more sensible defensive structure - that said, I'm assuming Lever now plays a bit more of a third tall role, which I prefer him in at this stage of his career.

As bad as VB was last week, he wasn't any worse than Milera. In eras past, we would have kept the more experienced player, backing him in to "return to the form we know he can produce", while Milera hasn't had a chance to prove the level of form he can achieve. I'm glad that philosophy seems to have been reversed to the more sensible strategy of favouring a younger player over an experienced player when they're tied on form.

Hopefully this is a message to the likes of Mackay. Nobody is untouchable. If we're willing to drop VB after one bad game, we'll be happy to drop you after one bad game as well if there is anyone in form waiting in the wings - which there is.

Port are rightly favourites and I suspect they'll win this week, but at least things are slowly moving in the right direction.

Always hard to gauge form line after round 1

We played North away from home who were up and about and info feel that we lost that game more than North won the game

While Port played a side which is predicted to finish bottom 6 at home and for large periods of the game were more than challenged

We most certainly shouldn't fear Port and the history of showdowns does suggest is a 50/50 game

 

[NTRabbit]

North were not up and about. They played poorly most of the game, put in about one quarters worth of proper effort from their midfield after half time, and then got carried to the line by Goldstein.

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

North were not up and about. They played poorly most of the game, put in about one quarters worth of proper effort from their midfield after half time, and then got carried to the line by Goldstein.

Bullshit

There pressure was outstanding but mate I'm pretty use to now your pessimistic style of posting

Edit:

Also there seems to be a consistent view across most media outlets that the North v Crows game was a high quality game for round 1 and probably only pipped by Gelelong v Hawks as the game of the round and that is largely due to that game being a traditional blockbuster game with the extra added interest around the Dangerfield debut

 

[Jeffcrowe]

that's what I'm saying, If westhoff moves out of the 50, so could Lever, keeping the talls even. I doubt we'd do it though.

Let him drift and lever can intercept which was his main strength as U17

 

[Jeffcrowe]

I said last week North were rightly the favorites, and I agree Port rightly are, but I am not convinced that they will beat us. We showed last Saturday that we can maintain intensity and will not roll over against quality opposition. We took it up to a very good North side at near full strength with Wells back and all of their hardened seasoned veterans as fresh as they will be all year, and with a bit of luck and extra discipline could have won. I am not saying we will win this Saturday. I am saying that we are a very good chance and that if we go down it won't be by much and not without a fight. In fact I like our tough draw this year with a lot of quality opposition as I think we will see a lot of high quality games as we did last Saturday evening.

not sure that they are 'rightly' favourites

We made finals last year and they didn't

We lost danger but they may be without Hartlett and we are close to full strength otherwise

We pushed north away from home when north had put a lot of focus on round 1 this year - we win if we didn't make some stupid errors

Meanwhile port scrape in at home v st kilda after firing in the last quarter

50-50 game , and one I'm confident we can win

 

[NTRabbit]

Also there seems to be a consistent view across most media outlets that the North v Crows game was a high quality game for round 1 and probably only pipped by Gelelong v Hawks as the game of the round and that is largely due to that game being a traditional blockbuster game with the extra added interest around the Dangerfield debut

The media rated it because it was a shoot out between two finalists from the previous year, and they love a shoot out more than anything else.

 

[feenix67]

Yeah there's a lot of this going on right now for mine. We are relying on two 25 gamers and a soon to be retired veteran to extract the ball. There's big gaps there.

The only gap is 50 games. If you can't see class in B Crouch, or clearance machine in M Crouch, then I don't know what to tell you. Our midfield lacks experience and will be exposed this year at times, but its not a matter of class.

I agree with Ramify , our systems and structure are simplistic. You just have to view the various "looks" the kangas threw at us at center bounces last week to see that. Also, our defensive intensity through the midfield is severely lacking. I'm not talking structure, I'm talking intent. That's fitness and discipline.

People like NTRabbit banging on about Hartigans inclusion don't seem to realize that the game has changed with the reduction in rotations. Our setup was ok last week until fatigue set in, then you started to see mismatches occur. We relied on crowding the deep forward, but as the game wore on (or even at the back end of quarters) we became atretched, leaving blokes like laird contesting against Petrie. I don't think Hartigan plays every week, but against tall forward lines we have to match up, coz tall blokes don't get any shorter as the old saying goes.