Preview R20: Changes vs. Hawthorn

[Mr_Moogle]

I'm not seeing the need for Himmelberg's retention.

He had one mark and three kicks last week. Fell over in every marking contest. Rucked 3 centre bounces.

Are we desperate to squeeze a 2nd rounder out of GWS?

That would be daylight robbery. If anything we should give them a pick as an apology.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

And playing Curtin doesn't mean we can't win. We had a win and a draw when he played previously.

Having rookies Dowling and Taylor and Bond play hasn't hurt our performances. The opposite in fact.

We're a frustrating club to follow.

Not at all .....pretty easy to follow the logic

How many Clubs have played 4 x Rookies in their side this year .....none !

Play the kids and lose, just reinforces the vitriol towards the Club .....ask the average Crows supporter, would they have selected Bond, 100% would have said no-way .....that's how much they actually know about the players

Any kudos for the non selection of Crouch this week ? .....I for one, am so happy, the selectors still opted for Dowling & Taylor ....despite losing Dawson

So the Club is prioritising youth ....but 4 in one side is too much .....Curtin will come in soon, probably at the expense of one of the other 3 rooks ....and if Curtin gets 3-4 games in his first year, that's a good result for a tall

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Not at all .....pretty easy to follow the logic

How many Clubs have played 4 x Rookies in their side this year .....none !

Play the kids and lose, just reinforces the vitriol towards the Club .....ask the average Crows supporter, would they have selected Bond, 100% would have said no-way .....that's how much they actually know about the players

Any kudos for the non selection of Crouch this week ? .....I for one, am so happy, the selectors still opted for Dowling & Taylor ....despite losing Dawson

So the Club is prioritising youth ....but 4 in one side is too much .....Curtin will come in soon, probably at the expense of one of the other 3 rooks ....and if Curtin gets 3-4 games in his first year, that's a good result for a tall

4 in one side is too much for what?

A flag? We're 14th.
Finals? We're 14th.
A winning culture? We've won 7 games entering Round 20

We're not protecting anything. There is nothing there to protect. There is nothing to damage by throwing a chance to a kid we took in the first round and who's been featuring in the reserves bests lately.

The logic we're using with this decision is the same logic that's taken us to 7 years out of finals.

 

[cleanhands]

Not at all .....pretty easy to follow the logic

How many Clubs have played 4 x Rookies in their side this year .....none !

Play the kids and lose, just reinforces the vitriol towards the Club .....ask the average Crows supporter, would they have selected Bond, 100% would have said no-way .....that's how much they actually know about the players

Any kudos for the non selection of Crouch this week ? .....I for one, am so happy, the selectors still opted for Dowling & Taylor ....despite losing Dawson

So the Club is prioritising youth ....but 4 in one side is too much .....Curtin will come in soon, probably at the expense of one of the other 3 rooks ....and if Curtin gets 3-4 games in his first year, that's a good result for a tall

We are/should be playing for nxt season

 

[cmndstab]

Give me a list of teams which did a ground-up rebuild in less than 7 years...

** I'm not talking about teams which went to the bottom for 1 year, picked up 1-2 elite talents, then rebounded straight away. I'm talking about teams which gutted their lists, and did the full rebuild - because that's what Adelaide have done.

Hawthorn fell out of the top 8 in 2002, bottomed out in 2004, got back into the finals in 2007 and won the first of several flags in 2008.

Bulldogs fell out of the top 8 in 2011, finished 14th or 15th for three years, got back into the finals in 2015 and won a flag in 2016.


How many of those teams who have gutted their list ended up winning flags? Is that the group we want to be in?

If we're going to set the target as "teams that completely ****ed up to the point where they had to replace their entire list and then spend years getting them to a point where they can compete" then we're putting ourselves in pretty poor company. I don't really want to be the next Carlton, spending twenty years unsuccessfully trying to get back from rock bottom. Or, perhaps more optimistically, the next Melbourne who only missed the finals for 13 out of 14 seasons before finally winning a flag in 2021.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

4 in one side is too much for what?

A flag? We're 14th.
Finals? We're 14th.
A winning culture? We've won 7 games entering Round 20

We're not protecting anything. There is nothing there to protect. There is nothing to damage by throwing a chance to a kid we took in the first round and who's been featuring in the reserves bests lately.

The logic we're using with this decision is the same logic that's taken us to 7 years out of finals.

These are simply stupid comments ....and is a reflection of someone who simply follows the game thru a beer glass

I was going to respond logically to this post ....but nothing you've said makes any sense

 

[WaynesWorld19]

We are/should be playing for nxt season

We are !

If you think you can tank a season, then go to finals contention next year .....those days are well & truly gone

You build momentum now .....not the opposite

The Club is still prioritising youth ....there is a limit though & most AFL Clubs restrict to 2-3 rookies with under 3-4 games experience

 

[GreyCrow]

I like how wayne always always puts out the you're drunk or on drugs argument when its painfully obvious he has no clue when sober

 

[cleanhands]

These are simply stupid comments ....and is a reflection of someone who simply follows the game thru a beer glass

I was going to respond logically to this post ....but nothing you've said makes any sense

It could be so if the rookies weren’t holing up and we were carrying them, but the truth is we are carrying ing Murphy and Smith

 

[WaynesWorld19]

It could be so if the rookies weren’t holing up and we were carrying them, but the truth is we are carrying ing Murphy and Smith

LOL Murphy ....you can lock him in to play every game till season's end .....he was far more valuable last week, than credit is given

Such is the bias & whipping boy syndrome ....you can't watch Murphy with any degree of objectivity

I'm not saying he's more than a "B" grade player .....and he will ultimately fall out of best 22 ...but currently there's no-one putting pressure on him

 

[cleanhands]

LOL Murphy ....you can lock him in to play every game till season's end .....he was far more valuable last week, than credit is given

Such is the bias & whipping boy syndrome ....you can't watch Murphy with any degree of objectivity

I'm not saying he's more than a "B" grade player .....and he will ultimately fall out of best 22 ...but currently there's no-one putting pressure on him

Come on Wayne get serious

 

[Vader]

Hawthorn fell out of the top 8 in 2002, bottomed out in 2004, got back into the finals in 2007 and won the first of several flags in 2008.

Bulldogs fell out of the top 8 in 2011, finished 14th or 15th for three years, got back into the finals in 2015 and won a flag in 2016.

I'll give you the Hawks... though that was a different time, with priority picks handed out like lollies, accelerating their rebuild. They also had the benefit of trading with Fremantle.

How many of those teams who have gutted their list ended up winning flags? Is that the group we want to be in?

That's the group we're in, regardless of whether or not we want to be there. We gutted the list from 2018-2020, doing away with almost all of our role & depth players, leaving only a core of experienced players.

If we're going to set the target as "teams that completely ****ed up to the point where they had to replace their entire list and then spend years getting them to a point where they can compete" then we're putting ourselves in pretty poor company. I don't really want to be the next Carlton, spending twenty years unsuccessfully trying to get back from rock bottom. Or, perhaps more optimistically, the next Melbourne who only missed the finals for 13 out of 14 seasons before finally winning a flag in 2021.

That's the company we're in, like it or not. Hopefully it will only take us 1 cycle to get back to the top, not 2 cycles (Melbourne) or even 3 cycles (Carlton).

The question isn't whether we would choose to be a "gut the list and rebuild" club - that's ancient history already, having happened from 2018-2020. The question is how long it takes to become competitive again (i.e. a finals contender) after gutting the list.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

These are simply stupid comments ....and is a reflection of someone who simply follows the game thru a beer glass

I was going to respond logically to this post ....but nothing you've said makes any sense

A team in 14th place needing to retain enough experience to protect our ??? (your point) is moronic

Golden opportunity missed here and will only get harder to bring Curtin in as Dawson, Rankine, Worrell, Murray return

No one has ever criticised Nicks for losing with a team because he opted for too many kids - this is a strawman created by you.

 

[bonehilda]

These are simply stupid comments ....and is a reflection of someone who simply follows the game thru a beer glass

I was going to respond logically to this post ....but nothing you've said makes any sense

Not being able to block you is one of life’s great tragedies

 

[Velvet George]

Not being able to block you is one of life’s great tragedies

This, absolute madness he’s a Mod for another board and we have to put up with his shit on here and we can’t do anything about it

 

[Scorpus]

When was the last time Nicks played too many kids?

Again, Nicks' worst ever performances were when he had the most experience in his team

He's never chosen "too many kids" which is why he's never been criticised for that

 

[FR0GGY]

Body of work /s

From u18’s?

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

These are simply stupid comments ....and is a reflection of someone who simply follows the game thru a beer glass

I was going to respond logically to this post ....but nothing you've said makes any sense

This is the most ironical post I have read this year.

Your posting mirrors the club's thinking... which is why AFC will remain mediocre with this approach.

 

[FullyBigKPro]

This thread

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Come on Wayne get serious

He is serious!

Seriously has nfi!

Sadly he is be paid by the club who believe this shit... which is why we are ****ed until there is change & we get competent operators into thr club

 

[cleanhands]

He is serious!

Seriously has nfi!

Sadly he is be paid by the club who believe this shit... which is why we are ****ed until there is change & we get competent operators into thr club

It makes you think here is some club connection or posts to get a reaction

 

[Schulzycrow]

I'm not seeing the need for Himmelberg's retention.

He had one mark and three kicks last week. Fell over in every marking contest. Rucked 3 centre bounces.

Are we desperate to squeeze a 2nd rounder out of GWS?

The Big Easy was slow as a glacier and about as useful as an ejector seat in a helicopter. GWS will be salivating over his stat line from last week. Handy VFL player is about all he will be.

 

[kirky]

Not at all .....pretty easy to follow the logic

How many Clubs have played 4 x Rookies in their side this year .....none !

Play the kids and lose, just reinforces the vitriol towards the Club .....ask the average Crows supporter, would they have selected Bond, 100% would have said no-way .....that's how much they actually know about the players

Any kudos for the non selection of Crouch this week ? .....I for one, am so happy, the selectors still opted for Dowling & Taylor ....despite losing Dawson

So the Club is prioritising youth ....but 4 in one side is too much .....Curtin will come in soon, probably at the expense of one of the other 3 rooks ....and if Curtin gets 3-4 games in his first year, that's a good result for a tall

Ok, so when did Dowling play his first game? When did Taylor play his first game? Why hasn’t McHenry played since R 14?

What do you think that happened and why?

Why should there be kudos for not playing Crouch straight away given he hasn’t played a game for 8 weeks?

 

[walterhobbs]

Another week another example that our coaches are morons.

That's every week in a row this season

 

[rabidcrow]

I’m surprised we haven’t been training Burgess as a swingman, especially this week. Already played it at AFL level for Gold Coast and on attributes seems a far better option than Himmelberg who we trained in that position all summer.

Worrell is either fit enough to play, or he isn’t and therefore at bigger risk of injury again. This game means nothing, I would much rather we go a backman short than risk another long-term injury to Worrell.

I have no doubt he is fit in terms of risk - his arm has healed - but not fit as in ready to run out a full game.


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