Autopsy R8 Roast & Toast and Changes for GWS R9

Best

  • 1: Nick Vlastuin

    Votes: 5 2.6%
  • 4: Dustin Martin

    Votes: 22 11.6%
  • 5: Jack Ross

    Votes: 6 3.2%
  • 7: Liam Baker

    Votes: 26 13.7%
  • 8: Jack Riewoldt

    Votes: 5 2.6%
  • 10: Shane Edwards

    Votes: 21 11.1%
  • 11: Jason Castagna

    Votes: 4 2.1%
  • 12: David Astbury

    Votes: 2 1.1%
  • 14: Bachar Houli

    Votes: 11 5.8%
  • 15: Jayden Short

    Votes: 35 18.4%
  • 16: Jake Aarts

    Votes: 78 41.1%
  • 17: Daniel Rioli

    Votes: 29 15.3%
  • 19: Tom Lynch

    Votes: 6 3.2%
  • 21: Noah Balta

    Votes: 4 2.1%
  • 25: Toby Nankervis

    Votes: 46 24.2%
  • 26: Riley Colier-Dawkins

    Votes: 9 4.7%
  • 29: Shai Bolton

    Votes: 162 85.3%
  • 31: Rhyan Mansell

    Votes: 11 5.8%
  • 33: Kamdyn McIntosh

    Votes: 26 13.7%
  • 34: Jack Graham

    Votes: 23 12.1%
  • 35: Nathan Broad

    Votes: 11 5.8%
  • 50: Marlion Pickett

    Votes: 21 11.1%

  • Total voters
    190
  • Poll closed .

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IceT

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Having watched the replay, while Broad's dropped mark was uncharacteristic, Rioli's decision to stop our run and allow Geelong to re group in defence is not.
He's never going to have as clear an unopposed option ahead of the footy as Lynch was, yet he still wants to grand stand and hold up play unnecessarily ensuring our forward line will be flooded by the time the ball gets there. No wonder Ross had no options running forward. He does this more often than not and it's a blight on our coaching staff that he still does it.

Ross can't hit targets by foot, and his reflexes are too slow for AFL level.

While Vlaustin can be excused for it being his first game back, I've been concerned about his brain fades since last year, remember his tackle against Port in the final as an example. He's doing too many dumb things that were not a part of his game pre 2019.

And Short has been sub standard too often this year. For a player who runs past team mates getting cheap handball possessions he turns it over way too often. Didn't do that much last year.

Castagna started the season in top form, blitzing it in the pre season. Seems to be a liability recently, not even providing good defensive pressure.

I still think the third 1/4 was an aberration, we were shown up by their 3 pronged forward line, Cameron running as far as the wing picking up marks unopposed while our 3 tall defenders stayed back.

Geelong have shown their hand, we'll learn as usual and with the return of our stars, order will be restored on the return bout.
 
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Maurice Mitchell

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Having watched the replay, while Broad's dropped mark was uncharacteristic, Rioli's decision to stop our run and allow Geelong to re group in defence is not.
He's never going to have as clear an unopposed option ahead of the footy as Lynch was, yet he still wants to grand stand and hold up play unnecessarily ensuring our forward line will be flooded by the time the ball gets there. No wonder Ross had no options running forward. He does this more often than not and it's a blight on our coaching staff that he still does it.

Ross can't hit targets by foot, and his reflexes are too slow for AFL level.

While Vlaustin can be excused for it being his first game back, I've been concerned about his brain fades since last year, remember his tackle against Port in the final as an example. He's doing too many dumb things that were not a part of his game pre 2019.

And Short has been sub standard too often this year. For a player who runs past team mates getting cheap handball possessions he turns it over way too often. Didn't do that much last year.

Castagna started the season in top form, blitzing it in the pre season. Seems to be a liability recently, not even providing good defensive pressure.

I still think the third 1/4 was an aberration, we were shown up by their 3 pronged forward line, Cameron running as far as the wing picking up marks unopposed while our 3 tall defenders stayed back.

Geelong have shown their hand, we'll learn as usual and with the return of our stars, order will be restored on the return bout.
I’m not a Rioli basher but you’re spot on about him and holding up play. That was terrible. I saw young Taylor at GWS do the same yesterday. If there is an option ahead, move it on.

He’s generally ok when theball is in motion; why can’t he think quickly in a dead ball situation as well. It’s always said forwards love receiving from forwards because forwards know what forwards want.

Not Daniel, and he has always done it. Momentum killer.
 

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Waca Jr

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Reckon we'll need Pickett the midfielder now that Edwards is injured, rather than Pickett the backup ruck.

OUT: Edwards, Mansell, Castagna
IN: Coleman-Jones, Grimes, Ralphsmith

Grimes, Astbury, Broad
Houli, Balta, Vlastuin
McIntosh, Graham, Pickett
Baker, Riewoldt, Aarts
Rioli, Lynch, Bolton
Nankervis, Martin, Ross
CCJ, RCD, Ralphsmith, Short


We playing too many smalls now? Or just overreacting given we had a sh*t game? We are obviously missing 4 of a Premiership midfield...




22 I'd like to see soon...

Grimes, Astbury, Broad
Houli, Balta, Vlastuin
Edwards, Cotchin, Lambert
Stack, Riewoldt, Bolton
Rioli, Lynch, Rioli
Nankervis, Martin, Prestia
CCJ, Graham, Pickett, Baker (or Short)

emg/ Short (or Baker), Castagna, McIntosh, Mansell


- Our best defensive starting 6 on the field.
- Play one of Short or Baker as the extra seventh defender. Yes yes, I know, but, we can't play them all. We are sorely missing a genuine 3rd forward target with elite marking/kicking skills, and missing the 2nd ruck, so we have to do it this way.
- CCJ back up ruck.
- Rioli double-act.
- Stack in as that extra dangerous forward that we sorely miss.
- Kmac out and Edwards up to a wing.
Kidding yourself if you think K Mac is not best 22. Better side with him in it. His versatility is a requirement
 

mauricerioli

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I’m not a Rioli basher but you’re spot on about him and holding up play. That was terrible. I saw young Taylor at GWS do the same yesterday. If there is an option ahead, move it on.

He’s generally ok when theball is in motion; why can’t he think quickly in a dead ball situation as well. It’s always said forwards love receiving from forwards because forwards know what forwards want.

Not Daniel, and he has always done it. Momentum killer.
It must be a team rule, or him and Aarts are instructed to do it because Aarts did it against the Dogs too.
 
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Having watched the replay, while Broad's dropped mark was uncharacteristic, Rioli's decision to stop our run and allow Geelong to re group in defence is not.
He's never going to have as clear an unopposed option ahead of the footy as Lynch was, yet he still wants to grand stand and hold up play unnecessarily ensuring our forward line will be flooded by the time the ball gets there. No wonder Ross had no options running forward. He does this more often than not and it's a blight on our coaching staff that he still does it.

Ross can't hit targets by foot, and his reflexes are too slow for AFL level.

While Vlaustin can be excused for it being his first game back, I've been concerned about his brain fades since last year, remember his tackle against Port in the final as an example. He's doing too many dumb things that were not a part of his game pre 2019.

And Short has been sub standard too often this year. For a player who runs past team mates getting cheap handball possessions he turns it over way too often. Didn't do that much last year.

Castagna started the season in top form, blitzing it in the pre season. Seems to be a liability recently, not even providing good defensive pressure.

I still think the third 1/4 was an aberration, we were shown up by their 3 pronged forward line, Cameron running as far as the wing picking up marks unopposed while our 3 tall defenders stayed back.

Geelong have shown their hand, we'll learn as usual and with the return of our stars, order will be restored on the return bout.
I'm almost certain that it's coaching directives... Over the last few years when things look sh*te it seems like we play conservatively to try and allow our defence to be ready for a counter. Our ball movement is super sideways and lots of waiting. We seem adverse to risk.

Whether it's a thing that coincides with training blocks and we try and control the tempo of the game to suit us and it goes wrong I dunno.

It's eerily similar to the corresponding games in previous years though.

We don't really put the green light up very often early in the season for attack
 

Tiger_Of_Old

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Can understand the Short comment but Baker no way. Reckon like a couple of his mates Short has escaped scrutiny because others have been so poor.
The side as a whole apart from the Port game and 2nd half against the dogs has been sloppy.But what else is new at this time of the year for us.
 

RobsJourney

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Kidding yourself if you think K Mac is not best 22. Better side with him in it. His versatility is a requirement
With the new rules, being able to win possessions is crucial. KMac gets 10 to 15 a game max, it's just not enough.

I love Kmac. Just like Graham I've always been one to continue to sing his praises and want him in the side even when some are potting him on here, eg. back when Kmac was ousted in 2019 and early last season.

But I don't think he is offering enough at the moment.
 

RobsJourney

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I genuinely think with Grimes back in bring in Stack to play the half back role and put Vlastuin on the ball. We need some grunt around the footy and the kids aren’t going to do it.
We've tried it before. Sadly Vlastuin has shown he is not a midfielder and is clearly an intercept defender. He was way off match fitness against Geelong and was a bit out of position at times.

He'll be right. I still think having 8 defenders in the side is too many though.
 

RobsJourney

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Can understand the Short comment but Baker no way. Reckon like a couple of his mates Short has escaped scrutiny because others have been so poor.
Yeah, I'd actually love to get a breakdown of Short's involvement and how good he is defensively. He gets the ball a fair bit and gains a lot of distance, but he just bombs it most of the time. Are his numbers hiding the fact that perhaps he is harming us more than he is helping us?

I personally think we're playing too many defenders.
 

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RobsJourney

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That led directly to 3 horrendous mistakes that all resulted in goals.

So now if you're over the ball and get hit in the head...nothing to see here, m' lord.
Stupidly, I actually emailed the club and quoted the stats someone put on here, about us being -290 in the past 4 years compared to the Pies +303. I also mentioned the Mansell incident as one clear example of us being reamed.

Told them they should "politely enquire" with the powers that be. Dunno why I bothered to be honest but I'm just sick of it. It showed in the Dogs game when we get an even free kick count (or even win it for a change), what we can do when we get a fair run at things.

When we use up all our effort only to give away frees and then not receive them at crucial times when they are there, it hurts us a lot, especially now with such a decimated midfield that can't keep running both ways.
 

Grechy

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We've tried it before. Sadly Vlastuin has shown he is not a midfielder and is clearly an intercept defender. He was way off match fitness against Geelong and was a bit out of position at times.

He'll be right. I still think having 8 defenders in the side is too many though.
Didn't Vlastuin get drafted as a mid? We need something else in the middle or GWS will pound us in there again.
 

69vintage

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Spot on ,Sloppy is absolutely how we have played this year .Near enough is good enough ain't going to cut it .
All our main rivals improved in the off season .
Daniher Brisbane
Allir ,Fantasia Port
Cameron ,Higgins ,Smith at the cats although they did lose Ablett and Taylor .
We have relied on internal growth for improvement and only Bolton on the whole list has improved.
Premiership sides have at least 3-4 AA players Bolton would be our only player in the 40 man squad .
We're a bottom of the 8 side at the moment with no chance of making the top 4 .The next 4 weeks will determine our season we need 3 wins .
Giants almost elimination Final
Brisbane up there no chance we might as well rest a heap of players and get them ready for Adelaide and Essendon at home .
The side as a whole apart from the Port game and 2nd half against the dogs has been sloppy.But what else is new at this time of the year for us.
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Tiger_Of_Old

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Spot on ,Sloppy is absolutely how we have played this year .Near enough is good enough ain't going to cut it .
All our main rivals improved in the off season .
Daniher Brisbane
Allir ,Fantasia Port
Cameron ,Higgins ,Smith at the cats although they did lose Ablett and Taylor .
We have relied on internal growth for improvement and only Bolton on the whole list has improved.
Premiership sides have at least 3-4 AA players Bolton would be our only player in the 40 man squad .
We're a bottom of the 8 side at the moment with no chance of making the top 4 .The next 4 weeks will determine our season we need 3 wins .
Giants almost elimination Final
Brisbane up there no chance we might as well rest a heap of players and get them ready for Adelaide and Essendon at home .

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Still think we'd beat any side with all our players available.
Our depth is being tested due to our success.
Not to worried if we don't win it this year.
Want i don't want is too fall off the cliff like Bris & Hawthorn.
 

69vintage

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Our best football was 2019 with 2 ruckman in the side .We need to get CCJ or Chol into the team and give Nank a spell up forward .It's poor planning if we don't play any of them then Nank get's injured and we have to bring them in and first ruck them on their own .
Still think we'd beat any side with all our players available.
Our depth is being tested due to our success.
Not to worried if we don't win it this year.
Want i don't want is too fall off the cliff like Bris & Hawthorn.
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Tiger_Of_Old

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Our best football was 2019 with 2 ruckman in the side .We need to get CCJ or Chol into the team and give Nank a spell up forward .It's poor planning if we don't play any of them then Nank get's injured and we have to bring them in and first ruck them on their own .

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Totally agree.
We need CJ(Most obvious)
 

Wooden Robot

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Didn't Vlastuin get drafted as a mid? We need something else in the middle or GWS will pound us in there again.
Has shown virtually nothing in a midfield role before, other than one game.
He's a defender and a first-class one.
Add to that, was seriously lacking match fitness on Friday night. Be lucky to get a quarter out of him in an on-ball role in that state of match fitness.
 

All Aust

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3 of our starting mids out, quality midfielders
No team has the depth to cover those
Forget our defense was poor, they were under
Seige with no pressure in the midfield they couldn't do anything more
I was at the game , Cameron, Hawkins, rohan
Always lead up to the ball carrier, why we aren't
Doing this is getting beyond a joke now.
I am unlikely to get to many live games from Tas this yr. Can't pick this up on the TV, angles and all so thank you for this. Is it a mids / ball little control issue that the forwards cant read or the mids looking up to no forwards leading up?
 

RJK Tiger

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Spot on ,Sloppy is absolutely how we have played this year .Near enough is good enough ain't going to cut it .
All our main rivals improved in the off season .
Daniher Brisbane
Allir ,Fantasia Port
Cameron ,Higgins ,Smith at the cats although they did lose Ablett and Taylor .
We have relied on internal growth for improvement and only Bolton on the whole list has improved.
Premiership sides have at least 3-4 AA players Bolton would be our only player in the 40 man squad .
We're a bottom of the 8 side at the moment with no chance of making the top 4 .The next 4 weeks will determine our season we need 3 wins .
Giants almost elimination Final
Brisbane up there no chance we might as well rest a heap of players and get them ready for Adelaide and Essendon at home .

On SM-G950F using BigFooty.com mobile app

This is a bit over the top & you don't know your facts.



Dusty would be AA, no question - along with Bolton who would be there abouts. There's 2 players. Our other players who are generally AA players - Prestia, Houli, Vloss, Grimes, Cotchin - all of them have been injured, theres a good reason why its "only 2" - but at 2, that is normal.
2017 we had 2 in the 40 and final team
2019 - 4 in the 40 and 2 in the team
2020 we had 3 in the 40 @ 1 in the final team

The one bloke who made it every year for us was Dimma & that is because we are a system team, not a talent one. This is still the same for us.

The GWS game is nothing like an elimination final. Its exactly what it is - a round 9 match between 2 teams who are hitting at .500. We are hitting at 50% atm with, on average 5 out of our top 15 players missing the majority of our matches.

Saying we are no chance against Brisbane in Brizzy is laughable. We have played more games at the Gabba in the last 18 months than anywhere, including our greatest Grand Final win. Of course we are a chance against them.

As it stands we are looking at Soldo, Cotchin, Lambert, Edwards, Prestia all missing for more weeks - thats 5 starting 18 players., more than 1/4 of our best team. That is our main issue.

The problem we have is not a lack of "AA" calibre players - its a lack of growth from out 20-30th best players. Ross, RCD, Chol, Naish, Dow, CCJ, to cover the injuries we have endured. None of them have worked a way into the frame of being considered a "top 20" player in our team. All our issues is a lack of movement in our internal player rankings. I know Ross has a lot of lovers here, but i honestly see him as a classic mid 2000's richmond plodder. we like him as he is a lil tuff, but ultimately he is too slow with hand and foot, makes poor decisions and is incapable of being a rotation player as he is only capable of playing 1 position, 1 way.


Our forward structure needs to be re-worked ASAP as it sucks. We need find out if its broken, or if Lynch is just so badly out of form that it cant function.

Our backline can't be judged until we see it complete, which we haven't yet. Grimes, Vloss, Broad, Houli, Balta, Baker, Astbury, Short.... they all haven't played a game together yet. The 2 most important blokes in that list is Grimes and Vloss & they haven't played a full game together yet.

I do agree that our obsession to grow internally has left us short now. that system relies on 3 to 4 players each year managing to move into our "best 25" for the first time. This year we really haven't seen it. Mansell is around there, but with a full team in i don't see him 22 still, but happy to persist with him for this reason. RCD also the same - thought he had little to no impact against Geelong, but there is something there and without that internal growth from a few blokes in his tier of the side, i think we are not going to be able to finish the regular season where we need to be to make a proper run at it in the finals.

When you are a "system" team - you have to commit to it for the entire year and live & die by that sword. We need to put as much of our talent in the midfield as possible & start hoping that those 25-40 listed players can make improvement to fill in the rest of the positions. Our future relies on Mansell, RCD, Naish, Dow, CCJ, Stack,Ross, Ralphsmith, Martyn, Rioli jnr, Garthwaite, Chol, Miller, Eggs - to step up.

IF we cannot get that growth from those blokes, then the anus will fall out of our team, possibly this year - but most likely next. There is not enough talent there to replace Cotchin, Prestia, Riewoldt, Grimes, Astbury, Houli - unless these players can step up. Based on the current form and situation, we could be looking at a change of up to 10 players from our list between 2021 and 2022.... in anyone's language, that is a full rebuild
 
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