Autopsy R8 Roast & Toast and Changes for GWS R9

Best

  • 1: Nick Vlastuin

    Votes: 5 2.6%
  • 4: Dustin Martin

    Votes: 22 11.6%
  • 5: Jack Ross

    Votes: 6 3.2%
  • 7: Liam Baker

    Votes: 26 13.7%
  • 8: Jack Riewoldt

    Votes: 5 2.6%
  • 10: Shane Edwards

    Votes: 21 11.1%
  • 11: Jason Castagna

    Votes: 4 2.1%
  • 12: David Astbury

    Votes: 2 1.1%
  • 14: Bachar Houli

    Votes: 11 5.8%
  • 15: Jayden Short

    Votes: 35 18.4%
  • 16: Jake Aarts

    Votes: 78 41.1%
  • 17: Daniel Rioli

    Votes: 29 15.3%
  • 19: Tom Lynch

    Votes: 6 3.2%
  • 21: Noah Balta

    Votes: 4 2.1%
  • 25: Toby Nankervis

    Votes: 46 24.2%
  • 26: Riley Colier-Dawkins

    Votes: 9 4.7%
  • 29: Shai Bolton

    Votes: 162 85.3%
  • 31: Rhyan Mansell

    Votes: 11 5.8%
  • 33: Kamdyn McIntosh

    Votes: 26 13.7%
  • 34: Jack Graham

    Votes: 23 12.1%
  • 35: Nathan Broad

    Votes: 11 5.8%
  • 50: Marlion Pickett

    Votes: 21 11.1%

  • Total voters
    190
  • Poll closed .
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All Aust

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Poor accuracy for gettable goals affecting team moral, keeps hunting teams in with a sniff. Looking at you George but also looking at JR8, Lunch and Dusty. JR8 on notice. Note to Dusty... You are a footy genius, make all oppositions wet their pants, they have no answer. So when you are in range mate, kick the snag.

Out: George Shedda
In: Grimes Naish
 

RobsJourney

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We lose so much footy smarts with Edwards out of the side

He’s the biggest out yet


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We got by last year without Nank, Edwards, Prestia, Houli for a good chunk of the season, as well as Cotchin missing a lot of games.

We'll be okay :)

Something went seriously wrong last Friday and I'm thinking aberration.

14 scoring shots to half time and 4 for the rest of the game. No way Geelong is that good, we just stopped dead.
 
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This is a bit over the top & you don't know your facts.



Dusty would be AA, no question - along with Bolton who would be there abouts. There's 2 players. Our other players who are generally AA players - Prestia, Houli, Vloss, Grimes, Cotchin - all of them have been injured, theres a good reason why its "only 2" - but at 2, that is normal.
2017 we had 2 in the 40 and final team
2019 - 4 in the 40 and 2 in the team
2020 we had 3 in the 40 @ 1 in the final team

The one bloke who made it every year for us was Dimma & that is because we are a system team, not a talent one. This is still the same for us.

The GWS game is nothing like an elimination final. Its exactly what it is - a round 9 match between 2 teams who are hitting at .500. We are hitting at 50% atm with, on average 5 out of our top 15 players missing the majority of our matches.

Saying we are no chance against Brisbane in Brizzy is laughable. We have played more games at the Gabba in the last 18 months than anywhere, including our greatest Grand Final win. Of course we are a chance against them.

As it stands we are looking at Soldo, Cotchin, Lambert, Edwards, Prestia all missing for more weeks - thats 5 starting 18 players., more than 1/4 of our best team. That is our main issue.

The problem we have is not a lack of "AA" calibre players - its a lack of growth from out 20-30th best players. Ross, RCD, Chol, Naish, Dow, CCJ, to cover the injuries we have endured. None of them have worked a way into the frame of being considered a "top 20" player in our team. All our issues is a lack of movement in our internal player rankings. I know Ross has a lot of lovers here, but i honestly see him as a classic mid 2000's richmond plodder. we like him as he is a lil tuff, but ultimately he is too slow with hand and foot, makes poor decisions and is incapable of being a rotation player as he is only capable of playing 1 position, 1 way.


Our forward structure needs to be re-worked ASAP as it sucks. We need find out if its broken, or if Lynch is just so badly out of form that it cant function.

Our backline can't be judged until we see it complete, which we haven't yet. Grimes, Vloss, Broad, Houli, Balta, Baker, Astbury, Short.... they all haven't played a game together yet. The 2 most important blokes in that list is Grimes and Vloss & they haven't played a full game together yet.

I do agree that our obsession to grow internally has left us short now. that system relies on 3 to 4 players each year managing to move into our "best 25" for the first time. This year we really haven't seen it. Mansell is around there, but with a full team in i don't see him 22 still, but happy to persist with him for this reason. RCD also the same - thought he had little to no impact against Geelong, but there is something there and without that internal growth from a few blokes in his tier of the side, i think we are not going to be able to finish the regular season where we need to be to make a proper run at it in the finals.

When you are a "system" team - you have to commit to it for the entire year and live & die by that sword. We need to put as much of our talent in the midfield as possible & start hoping that those 25-40 listed players can make improvement to fill in the rest of the positions. Our future relies on Mansell, RCD, Naish, Dow, CCJ, Stack,Ross, Ralphsmith, Martyn, Rioli jnr, Garthwaite, Chol, Miller, Eggs - to step up.

IF we cannot get that growth from those blokes, then the anus will fall out of our team, possibly this year - but most likely next. There is not enough talent there to replace Cotchin, Prestia, Riewoldt, Grimes, Astbury, Houli - unless these players can step up. Based on the current form and situation, we could be looking at a change of up to 10 players from our list between 2021 and 2022.... in anyone's language, that is a full rebuild

It will come from RCD, CCJ, Mansell, or Stack (One or two of the three). My money is on RCD with some A grad support next to him and Mansell slotting in moving Baker forward and Arts to the VFL side. CCJ or Soldo later in the season once we organise our other structures (Hardwick is holding this back for now while we sort through how other teams are attacking us this year and new rules etc.).

In terms of fully rebuilding, if we fully utilise our draft hand and also grab a free agent funded through Houli retiring and substantial Riewoldt/Cotchin pay-cuts, we will be fine to contend again next year then maybe fall from there. Ultimately we will need to spend 3-4 years licking up some top 5 picks then recruiting A grade FA's in year 4-5 of the rebuild to re-load, there is no other way to it or you may end up like a Hawthorn or best case, Geelong (which may not be that bad if they won it this year but if they don't they are in for some serious pain).
 

RobsJourney

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That's 3 aberrations out of our 4 losses. We start well then completely fall apart. At this rate we'll be doing well just to make the 8.
Good point, it could be alarming...

Then again, we played s**t against Sydney all game, wasn't like we dropped off, we just played s**t and they played amazing.

I missed the Melbourne game but according to my mate we shoulda been further ahead and they got a couple of gifts, then never looked back. We still beat them for inside 50s and weren't far off in scoring shots, despite losing Lambert and Dusty.

I reckon we'll pick it up, we'll make the 8.

We torched the Saints and didn't stop all game.

We were fantastic against the Dogs.
 
Jun 28, 2017
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That's 3 aberrations out of our 4 losses. We start well then completely fall apart. At this rate we'll be doing well just to make the 8.


yes, its starting to look like us and GWS are going to be battling it out for the last spot in the 8.

we still have to play Brisvegas twice, West coast in WA, GWS at giants stadium and Geelong at the G

could very easily lose all 5 of those games.
 

69vintage

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Some good points .
As you say we have plenty of AA caliber players the only problem is none of them are playing anywhere near good injuries too some but most just out of form .Dusty is a great player just not seeing it enough this year .
Grimes has been average Floss injured
Short average ,Balta average maybe because our system is not up to standard this year and our midfield is not applying enough pressure except against the Dogs which let us set up behind the ball and kill the slow ball in .
Disagree on beating Brisbane in their current form .We had a great record against them with a good side but not with what we have at the moment .
I rate Brisbane as the second best team behind Port at the moment .
This is a bit over the top & you don't know your facts.



Dusty would be AA, no question - along with Bolton who would be there abouts. There's 2 players. Our other players who are generally AA players - Prestia, Houli, Vloss, Grimes, Cotchin - all of them have been injured, theres a good reason why its "only 2" - but at 2, that is normal.
2017 we had 2 in the 40 and final team
2019 - 4 in the 40 and 2 in the team
2020 we had 3 in the 40 @ 1 in the final team

The one bloke who made it every year for us was Dimma & that is because we are a system team, not a talent one. This is still the same for us.

The GWS game is nothing like an elimination final. Its exactly what it is - a round 9 match between 2 teams who are hitting at .500. We are hitting at 50% atm with, on average 5 out of our top 15 players missing the majority of our matches.

Saying we are no chance against Brisbane in Brizzy is laughable. We have played more games at the Gabba in the last 18 months than anywhere, including our greatest Grand Final win. Of course we are a chance against them.

As it stands we are looking at Soldo, Cotchin, Lambert, Edwards, Prestia all missing for more weeks - thats 5 starting 18 players., more than 1/4 of our best team. That is our main issue.

The problem we have is not a lack of "AA" calibre players - its a lack of growth from out 20-30th best players. Ross, RCD, Chol, Naish, Dow, CCJ, to cover the injuries we have endured. None of them have worked a way into the frame of being considered a "top 20" player in our team. All our issues is a lack of movement in our internal player rankings. I know Ross has a lot of lovers here, but i honestly see him as a classic mid 2000's richmond plodder. we like him as he is a lil tuff, but ultimately he is too slow with hand and foot, makes poor decisions and is incapable of being a rotation player as he is only capable of playing 1 position, 1 way.


Our forward structure needs to be re-worked ASAP as it sucks. We need find out if its broken, or if Lynch is just so badly out of form that it cant function.

Our backline can't be judged until we see it complete, which we haven't yet. Grimes, Vloss, Broad, Houli, Balta, Baker, Astbury, Short.... they all haven't played a game together yet. The 2 most important blokes in that list is Grimes and Vloss & they haven't played a full game together yet.

I do agree that our obsession to grow internally has left us short now. that system relies on 3 to 4 players each year managing to move into our "best 25" for the first time. This year we really haven't seen it. Mansell is around there, but with a full team in i don't see him 22 still, but happy to persist with him for this reason. RCD also the same - thought he had little to no impact against Geelong, but there is something there and without that internal growth from a few blokes in his tier of the side, i think we are not going to be able to finish the regular season where we need to be to make a proper run at it in the finals.

When you are a "system" team - you have to commit to it for the entire year and live & die by that sword. We need to put as much of our talent in the midfield as possible & start hoping that those 25-40 listed players can make improvement to fill in the rest of the positions. Our future relies on Mansell, RCD, Naish, Dow, CCJ, Stack,Ross, Ralphsmith, Martyn, Rioli jnr, Garthwaite, Chol, Miller, Eggs - to step up.

IF we cannot get that growth from those blokes, then the anus will fall out of our team, possibly this year - but most likely next. There is not enough talent there to replace Cotchin, Prestia, Riewoldt, Grimes, Astbury, Houli - unless these players can step up. Based on the current form and situation, we could be looking at a change of up to 10 players from our list between 2021 and 2022.... in anyone's language, that is a full rebuild

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Rocco sifreddi

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I am unlikely to get to many live games from Tas this yr. Can't pick this up on the TV, angles and all so thank you for this. Is it a mids / ball little control issue that the forwards cant read or the mids looking up to no forwards leading up?
More of the forwards not leading , but some stages we butchered the chance going forward
Eg, rioli not quickly giving it to lynch , ross getting caught with the ball when he was streaming forward, the connection between our forwards and mids aren't there.
 

Coach_Required

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FB: Astbury, Balta, Broad

HB: Vlastuin, Grimes, Houli

C: McIntosh, Martin, Short

HF: Rioli, Lynch, Baker

FF: Aarts, Riewoldt, Caddy

FOL: Nankervis, Pickett, Bolton

INT: RCD, Mansell, Graham, CCJ

In: Caddy, CCJ, Grimes

Out: Ross, Castagna, Edwards (inj)

If Mansell doesnt come up from the head high Selwood knock then I'd keep Ross in and play as another mid.

I'd use CCJ as back up for Nank, and extra height around the ground, means Nank can push back more and plug up any holes.


How I think it should be verses how I think it will go are 2 different things however.


Wouldnt be surprised to just see Edwards (inj) & Mansell out, Caddy & Naish in.
 
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It's been tried a few times, we all wanted it. He just doesn't work there. Also has no match fitness and a suspect knee, he'll last half a game in the middle.
This is the biggest sign it's a premiership year....

Every year we cry out when Prestia and cotchin are injured for vlaus in the middle... We try it once and it's awful, we scrape along and then month later we are firing on all cylinders and storm home to the cup
 

tiggywigs

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Caddy in as the hydbrid mid/forward replacement for Ross makes sense to me.
CCJ and Grimes in for Mansell and George.
Use Baker as the replacement pressure forward and increase the aerial threat with CCJ (they have a short defence).
Will also allow Nank a chance to recharge and play his ruck rover role more effectively.
 
Oct 15, 2009
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I'm putting both of those down as losses. We'll be playing Brisbane missing key players, out of form, and with them now in form, and with West Coast...when was the last time we beat them in Perth?
1620623339067.png
 

Grrr

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Reckon Mansell is due for a spell. Not giving us much at HB really. Got some nice attributes but 5 games is a good run for your first up series of games. We had to put Baker back to try and sure us up last week, who is a much better player at this stage.
Out Edwards and Mansell
In: Grimes and .... the cupboard is very bare for in form VFL players, with most just back from injury or looking for fitness or both. Don't really trust Naish. Maybe Stack is the closest because you know he is quality at least and can play multiple positions.
 

Lynchy04

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Caddy has to play now surely as we don't have any other experienced players/bodies to come in
 

RobsJourney

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Can anyone do me a massive favour?

Last year, when Tom Hawkins pushed off Balta and Soldo did his ACL, someone posted other GIFs of Hawkins blatantly pushing his man into oncoming blokes on purpose.

I can't seem to find the right thread though, but I'm debating with a Geelong supporting mate who doesn't reckon Hawkins does it.


EDIT: I have the footage of the Soldo incident already, but I remember there being footage/GIFs of other times Hawkins has done it.

EDIT: Nevermind I found it, all good!
 
Last edited:

Carnis

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In the games we have lost, we have been unstitched by the oppo's accurate disposals, which they can achieve due to our zoning defence up and down the ground. Geelong, in particular, are big and tall, so they could out-grab and out-muscle. Our guys were chasing and swarming much harder, to little effect, and by about half way through they were dead on their feet. Have a look at the sweat that was dripping off them at half time, Dusty especially. By then, the oppo was in front, their tails were up and they got their second-wind, and against the exhausted Tiges it became a rout. I think we've got to get taller and close the gaps on the oppo players to keep the ball to ground. Also, is Dusty playing injured?
 
Last edited:

jetbhag

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Mansell gets head knock from Selwood no free-kick, then mansell drops three marks in a row resulting in Geelong goals. Seems like he had something along the lines of a concussion.

In saying that Frank Grimes to replace Mansell and maybe CCJ to replace Edwards so Pickett can play onball.
 
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i think maybe we are being stubborn about the stand rule bullshit.
until this year our man on the mark was a big part of forcing them long down the line, cue turnover game and the structures are in place to capitalise.
it's true that midfield pressure will be down with gut runners out injured, but to me we almost simulate this with the way we don't prevent these 15m kicks out of our backline.
week in week out i am watching oppos get it to their forward wing with tiny precise kicks and we haven't manned up one of them, it's stupid. freezing the mark has opened up the short inside kick and we seem to not have woken up. by the time the oppo is at forward wing they have a frozen zombie on the mark and all the time in the world [having taken a mark there] to pinpoint one of their leading forwards, who are expecting the kick.
i know its passe and all that, but geez we need to make them kick long out of their defence by manning up the short inside diagonal option. relying on the turnover game when its already deep in their 50 is chancey at best.
 

lumpinee

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Some good points .
As you say we have plenty of AA caliber players the only problem is none of them are playing anywhere near good injuries too some but most just out of form .Dusty is a great player just not seeing it enough this year .
Grimes has been average Floss injured
Short average ,Balta average maybe because our system is not up to standard this year and our midfield is not applying enough pressure except against the Dogs which let us set up behind the ball and kill the slow ball in .
Disagree on beating Brisbane in their current form .We had a great record against them with a good side but not with what we have at the moment .
I rate Brisbane as the second best team behind Port at the moment .

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hmmm...on what ive seen i think Melbourne and Geelol will play off.first time Geelol have had Higgins,Smith and Cameron play together and with
bighead to come back i think the shrewd recruiting will see them challenge the sheees who have the perfect balance of talls n smalls for the G
we need most of best back in the next 3 weeks otherwise it'll get away from us,we're capable if everyones available...hope im wrong
 
Last edited:
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Mansell gets head knock from Selwood no free-kick, then mansell drops three marks in a row resulting in Geelong goals. Seems like he had something along the lines of a concussion.
He also crashed into Broad as he was attempting to mark, causing yet another dropped mark in our defensive 50.
 

lumpinee

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In the games we have lost, we have been unstitched by the oppo's accurate disposals, which they can achieve due to our zoning defence up and down the ground. Geelong, in particular, are big and tall, so they could out-grab and out-muscle. Our guys were chasing and swarming much harder, to little effect, and by about half way through they were dead on their feet. Have a look at the sweat that was dripping off them at half time, Dusty especially. By then, the oppo was in front, their tails were up and they got their second-wind, and against the exhausted Tiges it became a rout. I think we've got to get taller and close the gaps on the oppo players to keep the ball to ground. Also, is Dusty playing injured?
yes,i have it that he has an issue behind the knee,its not debilitating but is a hinderance,and he cant shake it off,apparently its troubled him
the whole season
 
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