Racial inequality in America

[iBeng]

 

[Evolved1]

The standard of some of our public schools is atrocious. Education should be one of our primary goals, and I'll gladly pay higher taxes to raise the bar. If the public schooling system is adequate, private schools become unnecessary.

 

[Evolved1]

Are things any better in Australia?

If you compare Aboriginal stats vs black Americans, the picture isn't pretty.

For those of you who watched the Adam Goodes documentary, what were your thoughts? I see a lot of parallels between the US and Australia.

 

[HAPPY BUDDHA]

Are things any better in Australia?

If you compare Aboriginal stats vs black Americans, the picture isn't pretty.

For those of you who watched the Adam Goodes documentary, what were your thoughts? I see a lot of parallels between the US and Australia.

When I was at school the curriculum followed basic Christian concepts.
None of this identifying as something you are not and definitely none of this dropping our own beliefs or traditions to accommodate foreign ways.

You really expect aboriginals to bend over all over again for the new minority on the block screaming about injustice??

 

[Evolved1]

When I was at school the curriculum followed basic Christian concepts.
None of this identifying as something you are not and definitely none of this dropping our own beliefs or traditions to accommodate foreign ways.

You really expect aboriginals to bend over all over again for the new minority on the block screaming about injustice??

i appreciate the response. I don't quite understand what you mean, but you've piqued my curiosity.

1. What do you mean by "basic Christian concepts"?
2. Who is asking you to drop your beliefs or traditions to accommodate foreign ways, and what beliefs or traditions are you being asked to drop?

I don't have a strong understanding of aboriginal culture, but I'm trying to learn. There are parallels between racial prejudice in the US and Australia imho.

 

[HAPPY BUDDHA]

i appreciate the response. I don't quite understand what you mean, but you've piqued my curiosity.

1. What do you mean by "basic Christian concepts"?

Mother & Father inclusive household.
Respect for authority.
Manners.

2. Who is asking you to drop your beliefs or traditions to accommodate foreign ways, and what beliefs or traditions are you being asked to drop?

1. example; Merry Christmas must now be known as ‘Happy Holidays’. (Christmas was something I had to just “deal with” as a minority) so I dealt with it.
2. National anthem does not require attendance at school (something I had ZERO chance avoiding as a minority) yet dealt with it.
3. Raising the flag. (something I was put in detention for not participating in as a minority) yet again, dealt with it.

These are just some instances of our basic social concepts being eradicated to accommodate minorities.

I don't have a strong understanding of aboriginal culture, but I'm trying to learn. There are parallels between racial prejudice in the US and Australia imho.

America has always been a melting pot. Aboriginal Australians are only recently being subjected to more than white Christian values. Impossible to think they could now just suddenly adapt all over again because the world says so.

 

[Evolved1]

Mother & Father inclusive household.
Respect for authority.
Manners.

1. example; Merry Christmas must now be known as ‘Happy Holidays’. (Christmas was something I had to just “deal with” as a minority) so I dealt with it.
2. National anthem does not require attendance at school (something I had ZERO chance avoiding as a minority) yet dealt with it.
3. Raising the flag. (something I was put in detention for not participating in as a minority) yet again, dealt with it.

These are just some instances of our basic social concepts being eradicated to accommodate minorities.

America has always been a melting pot. Aboriginal Australians are only recently being subjected to more than white Christian values. Impossible to think they could now just suddenly adapt all over again because the world says so.

I agree with you about the decline in manners. The nuclear family isn't really a Christian concept. The bible and its deity are quite accepting of polygamy.

Respect for authority is an interesting one. While I agree there has been a decline in respect towards authority, I don't see that as a bad thing. Not all sources of authority deserve respect. I'm not a big fan of the authoritarian and disrespectful approach by SOME members of the police force fwiw.

I think the happy holidays vs Merry Christmas debate is a red herring. I'm an anti-theist and I'll say merry Christmas to others with no issue. Have you ever had negative feedback as a result of saying merry Christmas to someone?

Social dynamics of our society are fluid; they're constantly evolving. As a tolerant society, I think we should try to accommodate and treat all people equally irrespective of religion, gender, sexual preference, or race.

 

[HairyO]

No, but the public schools shouldnt be ever considered the lowest denominator

So we need to ban teacher unions. Because that is exactly their goal. Everyone the same, at the lowest level.

 

[HAPPY BUDDHA]

I agree with you about the decline in manners. The nuclear family isn't really a Christian concept. The bible and its deity are quite accepting of polygamy.

My experience with growing up in a solid household with a definite father figure & mother learning respect and good old fashioned teaching between what is right & wrong absolutely erases anything else I have seen since In regards to single parent families and upbringing of children.

Respect for authority is an interesting one. While I agree there has been a decline in respect towards authority, I don't see that as a bad thing. Not all sources of authority deserve respect. I'm not a big fan of the authoritarian and disrespectful approach by SOME members of the police force fwiw.

So where do you draw the line? School, sports coaches, employers?

I think the happy holidays vs Merry Christmas debate is a red herring. I'm an anti-theist and I'll say merry Christmas to others with no issue. Have you ever had negative feedback as a result of saying merry Christmas to someone?

Totally missing the point. Why must these centuries old traditions be changed now?

Social dynamics of our society are fluid; they're constantly evolving. As a tolerant society, I think we should try to accommodate and treat all people equally irrespective of religion, gender, sexual preference, or race.

Accommodate or be dictated to?

Try this accepting of everything in China, Saudi Arabia or Korea.

They won’t have a bit of it.

Would you say they are wrong because they stick to their beliefs? Or are they respected because of them?

 

[Evolved1]

My experience with growing up in a solid household with a definite father figure & mother learning respect and good old fashioned teaching between what is right & wrong absolutely erases anything else I have seen since In regards to single parent families and upbringing of children.

Why should your subjective experiences be the standard for all people who live in this nation?

So where do you draw the line? School, sports coaches, employers?

There's a balance to everything. Respect for authority vs respect from authority. That's where I draw the line.

Totally missing the point. Why must these centuries old traditions be changed now?

Centuries old traditions are probably in need of an update in line with societal shifts, no? In the same way that women now work and vote, and interracial marriages are accepted as the norm, other outdated and unnecessary traditions can be dumped too.

Accommodate or be dictated to?

Accommodate. In what ways, do you feel you're being dictated to?

Try this accepting of everything in China, Saudi Arabia or Korea.
They won’t have a bit of it.
Would you say they are wrong because they stick to their beliefs? Or are they respected because of them?

I have no power or vote to influence what happens in China, Saudi Arabia, or Nth Korea.

They're certainly not respected for their human rights records. Do you respect them for sticking to traditions?

 

[Evolved1]

So we need to ban teacher unions. Because that is exactly their goal. Everyone the same, at the lowest level.

Do you have evidence for that claim?

 

[HAPPY BUDDHA]

Why should your subjective experiences be the standard for all people who live in this nation?
There's a balance to everything. Respect for authority vs respect from authority. That's where I draw the line.
Centuries old traditions are probably in need of an update in line with societal shifts, no? In the same way that women now work and vote, and interracial marriages are accepted as the norm, other outdated and unnecessary traditions can be dumped too.
Accommodate. In what ways, do you feel you're being dictated to?
I have no power or vote to influence what happens in China, Saudi Arabia, or Nth Korea.

They're certainly not respected for their human rights records. Do you respect them for sticking to traditions?

Ok I see you are on the front foot now.
You have a strong opinion either on or against everything I have said whereas before I thought you simply just asking genuine questions.

Why such subterfuge?

Just for clarity what type of employment do you hold and what political leaning do you have?

 

[HairyO]

Do you have evidence for that claim?

The Australian public school system decline over the last 30 or 40 years.

Learning was replaced with feeling. Because that is what leads to all great discoveries.

 

[Evolved1]

Ok I see you are on the front foot now.
You have a strong opinion either on or against everything I have said whereas before I thought you simply just asking genuine questions.

Why such subterfuge?

Just for clarity what type of employment do you hold and what political leaning do you have?

I consider my questions genuine. I'm opinionated and can come across strongly so, but my views are also up for debate. Challenging my opinions with those who think differently is something I try to do regularly so that I can be sure they stand up to scrutiny.

I work full time in a field of science, and my political views are probably best described as a mix of anarchistic, socially left, fiscally conservative mess. I've been called out for being far right and far left, so make of that what you will.

Why do you consider my questions non-genuine?

 

[Evolved1]

The Australian public school system decline over the last 30 or 40 years.

Learning was replaced with feeling. Because that is what leads to all great discoveries.

You mentioned the teachers union in the post I replied to. How is it relevant?

 

[HAPPY BUDDHA]

I consider my questions genuine. I'm opinionated and can come across strongly so, but my views are also up for debate. Challenging my opinions with those who think differently is something I try to do regularly so that I can be sure they stand up to scrutiny.

I work full time in a field of science, and my political views are probably best described as a mix of anarchistic, socially left, fiscally conservative mess. I've been called out for being far right and far left, so make of that what you will.

Why do you consider my questions non-genuine?

So after attempting to portray yourself as an open minded soul you are simply nothing more than a professional trouble maker. Congratulations.

 

[Evolved1]

So after attempting to portray yourself as an open minded soul you are simply nothing more than a professional trouble maker. Congratulations.

Your failure to provide convincing arguments doesn't make me closed-minded or a "professional trouble maker".

It just means that you lack the knowledge to support your views. Ignorance can be fixed with education, so your predicament isn't permanent.

 

[HAPPY BUDDHA]

Your failure to provide convincing arguments doesn't make me closed-minded or a "professional trouble maker".

It just means that you lack the knowledge to support your views. Ignorance can be fixed with education, so your predicament isn't permanent.

“Convincing arguments”.?
Oh sweetie, I’m sorry you feel my thoughts are something you need to argue over.

Go on with your bad self now

 

[Evolved1]

“Convincing arguments”.?
Oh sweetie, I’m sorry you feel my thoughts are something you need to argue over.

Go on with your bad self now

Meh.

Is that the best you've got? I know you can do better. Show me.

 

[HAPPY BUDDHA]

Meh.

Is that the best you've got? I know you can do better. Show me.

 

[Evolved1]

View attachment 901755

Mate, I wish I had that much hair.

 

[Ants]

Universal incomes are a terrible idea until we have extremely cheap and highly effective automation which is still some time away (although we are moving in that direction). You think about these issues deeply. This is a good thread. But you continuously miss/ignore the role of effort. It needs to be a part of the analysis.


Until we have widespread cheap automation we need to incentivise work though increasing taxes on non work income (like wealth/inheritance taxes) and reducing income taxes. Universal incomes disincentivize work. The opposite of what is currently needed. There is work for almost everyone of working age and a large amount of dependents that need to be supported by workers.
For the small portion of people who cant currently work that are of working age we should offer bigger welfare. But not give large free incomes to those who can work. It discourages them to work. This places greater burden on everyone else to support the dependents and provide protections.

Universal incomes is a solution to a future problem. Not todays problem

I'm not sold on UBI, although I can see where there could be significant government efficiencies from removing means testing and rolling unemployment benefits/social support/pensions all into a single, non-means tested payment that could replace a lot of lower and middle class welfare. Amongst other things you would remove the huge marginal tax rates of increasing wages that can exist when people lose benefits and pay more tax. Plus means testing is very expensive for the government to do, across so many different benefits.

But specifically on your points in bold. If you compare the Scandinavian countries to the USA, they have significantly stronger safety net and unemployment benefits. Yet their labour participation rate is roughly the same (see below). Is there any real evidence that reducing unemployment benefits actually increases workforce participation? I mean, one of the things we see when an economy is improving is sometimes unemployment doesn't fall as fast as expected because people re-enter the workforce. That implies that unemployment benefits doesn't impact their decision making, as they're not actually claiming it. It seems to be far more driven by the availability of work.

Labor force participation rate, total (% of total population ages 15+) (national estimate) - Denmark, Finland, Norway, Sweden | Data

Labor force participation rate, total (% of total population ages 15+) (national estimate) - Denmark, Finland, Norway, Sweden from The World Bank: Data

data.worldbank.org

(scandinavian countries at the top, the USA is further down with a rate of 63.1% in 2019).

 

[awaremind]

Mate, I wish I had that much hair.

You come across as smarter imo