Racism alive & well in Aussie Army it seems

hoss

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#51
medusala said:
Multiculturalism is working brilliantly in Holland, Bosnia, Israel, Sri Lanka, Burma etc etc. Not.

Have a look at crime figures by ethnic group in Australia then explain to me if multiculturalism is such a raging success why do certain ethnic groups have such apalling criminal tendencies compared to the rest of us.
Blaming multi-culturalism for the problems in those countries is extremely naive and simplistic Medhead. Couldn't have anything to do with other factors could it?
 

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medusala

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#52
lasher said:
i am appalled that in 2004 a vast majority of australians are racist and non educated towards aboriginal people...we could learn so much from these people about caring for land , flora and fauna usages and learing about our natural wildlife but instead we treat them like shi# and with no respect...

Caring for the land, flora and fauna? They were responsible for the extinction of animal species such as the giant wombat and their caring for the environment consisted of slash and burn. They werent able to grow crops let alone invent the most simple of tools. Thus not exactly sure what we can learn from them. You may care to expand on this.
 

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#53
hoss said:
Blaming multi-culturalism for the problems in those countries is extremely naive and simplistic Medhead. Couldn't have anything to do with other factors could it?
What other factors are involved in the current trouble in Holland other than Islamic extremists murdering a film maker? What other issues were involved in the civil war in Sri Lanka, Bosnia, Israel/Palestine etc?

Why are there race riots in the UK and the USA? Surely the fact they are called "race" riots is some sort of pointer.

When discussing the Islamic world many commentators point to Turkey as an example of moderation, where the army guarantees secular govt, membership of NATO etc etc. However in the last 100 years the Turks have slaughtered millions of their own countrymen of different ethnic backgrounds in Armenians, Greeks and Kurds. Join the dots.

Multiculturalism simply doesnt work. Name some examples that have been successes.
 
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#54
Well medusala's spot on with that, but if we don't see those assorted problems coming from multiculturalism, then what do we see? You'll still end up with a society that's harder to govern, because you try to satisfy everyone but please nobody, which is exactly what its inventors (namely the Canadian Liberal gov't) are finding out right now.
 

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#55
Multi-culturalism is working in most of the world. It works in Australia, the US, Uk, Canada and numerous other countries.

Politics (usually greed) and religion are the cause of most problems, not multi-culturalism.
 

hoss

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#57
Race riots in the UK or USA are very rare and are usually caused because people feel oppressed. Often the riot starts from taunting by far right neo nazis.

I've lived in NYC, Perth and London and multi-culturalism is a great thing. I've visited Toronto many times and it is a very multi-cultural city with no problems.

It's in the political interest of Jack van Tongeran types to make multiculturalism fail.

The one people that would agree with your sentiments however are Australian Aboriginals. Maybe we should all just go back to our "own" countries.
 

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#58
hoss said:
Race riots in the UK or USA are very rare and are usually caused because people feel oppressed. Often the riot starts from taunting by far right neo nazis.

I've lived in NYC, Perth and London and multi-culturalism is a great thing. I've visited Toronto many times and it is a very multi-cultural city with no problems.

It's in the political interest of Jack van Tongeran types to make multiculturalism fail.

The one people that would agree with your sentiments however are Australian Aboriginals. Maybe we should all just go back to our "own" countries.
Complete nonsense. Race riots in places like Brixton, Detroit, LA etc had nothing to do with Neo Nazis.

I live in London and have lived in Toronto. Multiculturalism has been an abject failure in Canada, dont know how you can claim there are no problems.
 

hoss

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#59
medusala said:
I live in London.
Phew! Thought you might have been Jack van tongeren. Didn't want my house blown up.

Weren't the LA riots caused by police brutality? What sparked the Brixton riots?

So how many days per year do different cultures work, play and get along together in London, Toronto, LA, Sydney etc. And how many days per year are there riots? Would think that multiculturalism is working fine.
 

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GGGRRRHHH don't get me started about the way Aboriginals are treated here in WA, I am appalled to hear so called normal aussies, calling them coons, boongs, even little children are called that in the streets, it tears my heart out, how the hell are they going to become a part of our society, when they are denigrated so badly. :(

Then people wonder why they don't become a part of our society, maybe because us whites don't want them to.
 
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#61
The Oldham riot was sparked by a clearly racist attack on a white pensioner by Asian youths, again showing that racism isn't the sole property of one group. There is a lack of integration in these areas, because immigrants aren't encouraged to integrate.

Burnley, which is a very poor area (40% unemployment IIRC), is a good case of tensions being caused by one group getting favourable treatment, because the council was spending money on a predominently Asian council estate. There were two large council estates, one white and the other Asian.

Multiculturalism's failure in Canada hasn't manifested itself in things like race riots or serious crime problems, but in the above-mentioned governance problems and polarisation of the federal political scene since the 1993 election. The Reform Party (which later became the Canadian Alliance, which merged with the Tories) was born out of the western provinces' disenchantment with Ottawa's policies, because they felt they weren't being given a fair go. They didn't want the idea of multiculturalism or "distinct societies" and wanted all Canada's provinces to be treated equally. On the other hand you have the Bloc Quebecois, whose goals are pretty obvious, which actually became the official opposition in 1993 because they won most of Quebec's seats. Both gained ground at the expense of the Tories.

This has been cited as one of the main reasons the Liberals have been able to win four terms in office despite the majority of Canadians not voting for them (and haven't done so since 1968).

Well, two years later they had the referrendum in Quebec, and the "non" vote barely won out because the minority of Quebeckers who weren't Francophones (e.g. Anglos, ethnics and aboriginals) almost solidly voted "non". You also had that comment from the then premier of Quebec, Jaques Parizeau about the sort of votes which got the "oui" proposition defeated.

If that isn't a reflection of a divided society, then what is it? That has to be the as damning an indictment of multiculturalism as any.
 

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medusala

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#62
hoss said:
Multi-culturalism is working in most of the world. It works in Australia, the US, Uk, Canada and numerous other countries.

Politics (usually greed) and religion are the cause of most problems, not multi-culturalism.
Why is multiculturalism working in the UK? Why are the Toxteth, Brixon, Bradford etc race riots such a good thing? Is the practice of muslim leaders demanding jihad and preaching hatred a good thing? Is the massive drug and crime problems amonst blacks in the inner cities a good thing? Is the constant hatred and fighting between Sikhs and muslims in west london such a good thing? Is Christmas celebrations being banned in primary schools due to fear of offending minorities a good thing?

Its not working now and wont in the future. The Roman Empire is probably as good as example as you will find, however this succeeded for a long time primarily because the Romans assimilated people into their culture as happened to a large extent in Britain.

You still cant explain why a multicultural society is better than a monocultural assimilated one. The only thing anyone can ever come up with is lots of restataurants.

BTW how can you say religion isnt a problem yet multiculturalism isnt? Surely muslems for example are a different "culture".
 

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Thread starter #63
David Votoupal said:
The Oldham riot was sparked by a clearly racist attack on a white pensioner by Asian youths, again showing that racism isn't the sole property of one group. There is a lack of integration in these areas, because immigrants aren't encouraged to integrate.

Burnley, which is a very poor area (40% unemployment IIRC), is a good case of tensions being caused by one group getting favourable treatment, because the council was spending money on a predominently Asian council estate. There were two large council estates, one white and the other Asian.

Multiculturalism's failure in Canada hasn't manifested itself in things like race riots or serious crime problems, but in the above-mentioned governance problems and polarisation of the federal political scene since the 1993 election. The Reform Party (which later became the Canadian Alliance, which merged with the Tories) was born out of the western provinces' disenchantment with Ottawa's policies, because they felt they weren't being given a fair go. They didn't want the idea of multiculturalism or "distinct societies" and wanted all Canada's provinces to be treated equally. On the other hand you have the Bloc Quebecois, whose goals are pretty obvious, which actually became the official opposition in 1993 because they won most of Quebec's seats. Both gained ground at the expense of the Tories.

This has been cited as one of the main reasons the Liberals have been able to win four terms in office despite the majority of Canadians not voting for them (and haven't done so since 1968).

Well, two years later they had the referrendum in Quebec, and the "non" vote barely won out because the minority of Quebeckers who weren't Francophones (e.g. Anglos, ethnics and aboriginals) almost solidly voted "non". You also had that comment from the then premier of Quebec, Jaques Parizeau about the sort of votes which got the "oui" proposition defeated.

If that isn't a reflection of a divided society, then what is it? That has to be the as damning an indictment of multiculturalism as any.
So again I ask you, what is your solution, only have one race in every country, just kill off any other race, that is the only way you can live with no conflict of race.
 

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#64
hoss said:
Phew! Thought you might have been Jack van tongeren. Didn't want my house blown up.

Weren't the LA riots caused by police brutality? What sparked the Brixton riots?

So how many days per year do different cultures work, play and get along together in London, Toronto, LA, Sydney etc. And how many days per year are there riots? Would think that multiculturalism is working fine.
As per usual any critic of multiculturalism is branded a racist nazi. Immigration and multiculturalism are different concepts. I am in favour of attracting the best and brightest to Australia, its a good idea but they must adapt to the Australian way of life. The Romans were switched on in this regard, the Empire couldnt have succeeded without immigrants, mercenaries etc. However these immigrants were assimilated into Roman society.

Re Brixton riot (and there have been a few), the last one was caused by a black burglar being caught and taken into custody (only after attempting to stab a police officer) and having a hear attack. The black community constantly claim the police pick on them. As one head of police commented a few years ago, of course we arrest a higher % of black youths, they are less than 5% of the popluation yet account for over 2/3rds of all violent crime in London. Political pressure however has dictated that now police in London have to fill in a form and give it to you if you are stopped and searched giving a reason why just so ethnic minorities arent offended. Thus multiculturalim is significantly affecting the ability of police to carry out their job.
 

hoss

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#65
Multi-culturalism works.

Australia is a young country, made up of 100's of different cultures and ethnic backgrounds. Many 1st and 2nd generation Australians and nearly all 3rd, 4th , 5th generation Australians clearly see themselves as "Aussies". proud of the ethnicity, yes, but first and foremost Aussies.

It is a pointless debate we're having as the worlds countries will always be multi-cultural. If we can slowly get rid of racism, intolerance etc it will only get better.

Yes, maybe Australia would be better off as a single Aboriginal culture country, but it never will be. We can only move forwards.
 
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#66
mantis said:
So again I ask you, what is your solution, only have one race in every country, just kill off any other race, that is the only way you can live with no conflict of race.
Well I'm in favour of allowing in only people who have something to contribute, and will accept and partake in Australian culture.

I am also in favour of abolishing any special treatment policies, and am opposed to contradictory and hyopcritical policies.

Another good example of problems associated with multiculturalism- the mess that's been Australian soccer for many years, until Frank Lowy thankfully stepped in to sort it out. David Hill tried to sort out the problem of clubs being too ethnically based but then got crucified for it, but Lowy's been able to carry out the plan so far successfully.
 

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#67
medusala said:
As per usual any critic of multiculturalism is branded a racist nazi. Immigration and multiculturalism are different concepts. I am in favour of attracting the best and brightest to Australia, its a good idea but they must adapt to the Australian way of life. The Romans were switched on in this regard, the Empire couldnt have succeeded without immigrants, mercenaries etc. However these immigrants were assimilated into Roman society.

Re Brixton riot (and there have been a few), the last one was caused by a black burglar being caught and taken into custody (only after attempting to stab a police officer) and having a hear attack. The black community constantly claim the police pick on them. As one head of police commented a few years ago, of course we arrest a higher % of black youths, they are less than 5% of the popluation yet account for over 2/3rds of all violent crime in London. Political pressure however has dictated that now police in London have to fill in a form and give it to you if you are stopped and searched giving a reason why just so ethnic minorities arent offended. Thus multiculturalim is significantly affecting the ability of police to carry out their job.
Agree with some of that. Multiculturalism should never be an excuse for "positive discrimination." All should be equal.

Get out of the house and enjoy London for what it is. A great city enriched with a huge number of different cultures. Don't let the proliferance of "modern day" terrorists cloud your judgement of multiculturalism. Terrorists are just crazed murderers using culture, politics or religion as an excuse.

BTW, don't take things to heart. The Jack comment was tongue in cheek -sorry.
 

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Thread starter #69
David Votoupal said:
Well I'm in favour of allowing in only people who have something to contribute, and will accept and partake in Australian culture.

I am also in favour of abolishing any special treatment policies, and am opposed to contradictory and hyopcritical policies.

Another good example of problems associated with multiculturalism- the mess that's been Australian soccer for many years, until Frank Lowy thankfully stepped in to sort it out. David Hill tried to sort out the problem of clubs being too ethnically based but then got crucified for it, but Lowy's been able to carry out the plan so far successfully.
WTF why are you talking about soccer. :mad:

Do you think it is fair that white australians, look down on Aboriginals.

Or they won't accept people coming here by boat looking for a better life.
 

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Thread starter #70
hoss said:
Go to the Brixton markets, then out for a tandoori. Finish off with a nice piece of baklava. Yum.
Thank goodness for other cultures, I love Thai , Chinese, Lebabese, Japanese, bugger I love all the new foods these immigrants have introduced. :D
 

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#71
hoss said:
Multi-culturalism works.

Australia is a young country, made up of 100's of different cultures and ethnic backgrounds. Many 1st and 2nd generation Australians and nearly all 3rd, 4th , 5th generation Australians clearly see themselves as "Aussies". proud of the ethnicity, yes, but first and foremost Aussies.

It is a pointless debate we're having as the worlds countries will always be multi-cultural. If we can slowly get rid of racism, intolerance etc it will only get better.

Yes, maybe Australia would be better off as a single Aboriginal culture country, but it never will be. We can only move forwards.
I think you have a different view of what constitutes "multiculturalism". The aspects that disturb me are things like SBS, specific ethnic funding and govt depts, family reunion immigration category, Ethnic specific businessman of the year, bleating by both sides over Israel etc etc.

RE 1st and 2nd generation Aussies, I constantly hear people refer to themselves as Greek Australian, Italian Australians etc. Though readily admit its better than the UK where alot of people still refer to themselves as Bengali, Gujarati, Pakistani, Jamaican etc even though they were born in the UK. Its a truism that certain cultures assimilate far more easily than other. I agree with you that religion is a massive hurdle. You only have to read the posts of Lestat and Miller CHF etc to realise that their cultures are worlds apart.

You are incorrect re all countries being multicultural. Japan are Norway are both extremely homogenous (and not to mention successful).

I had a think about it and did come up with a successful example of multiculturalism. Switzerland (which I think is the longest running democracy) and its three distinct cultures and possibly Belgium.
 

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#72
I will always hope that it can work. Like I've stated previously, I don't agree with positive discrimination in any form. This happens not only under the guise of multiculturalism, but in job opportunities for males, females etc. Jobs should always be won on merit, not tokenism.

It's always very hard to find a specific cause in world problems - the "troubles" in N Ireland for example - Is the cause religion, culture, politics or just madmen on both sides wanting to kill people?
 

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#74
hoss said:
Multi-culturalism works.
yeah right, just take a tour thru western sydney and see the wonderful multiculturalism at work. after a while your not sure if your still in oz or in beruit or saigon.

multiculturalism was invented by moonbats like al grasby and gough whitlam who wanted to be social engineers and resape society in their image. unfortunately they brought in all the foreign cultures not compatible with ours resulting in the gettoisation of sydney further compounded by those socialist moonbats' encouagement of foreigners to keep their peculiar cultures instead of integration.

we can see now what happens in europe when too many incompatible foreigners like muslims are allowed in, resulting in social anarchy and ethnic violence.

thanks for that al and gough.
 
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#75
I wouldn't say Gough was the creator- I think he merely took what his then Canadian counterpart Pierre Trudeau had created, and then implemented it in Australia. Blissfully unaware of what it would cause, though at that time it's full affects eiether in Canada or Australia weren't yet realised.
 
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