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[aidancdaman]

Funny thing is, they're either private school w***ers (funny for me to say) or bloody New Zealanders .

If somebody HAS to support their national cricket side for the sake of standing by one's own country, then by the same logic, that same person HAS to stand by, say federal government's policy. Should a North Korean who HAS to support the nations football team HAVE to stand by the abhorrent human rights record of the nation?

He probably does, but that's another story.

 

[Gibbsy]

On the bright side, I haven't seen the term "un-Australian" used when referring to him, so that speaks well of the intelligence of the board, at least.

That may be bringing the intelligence up but there's a hell of a lot dragging it right back down.

Personally, I respect SA for his decision. Yes, we're lucky to be born in such a great country. But that doesn't automatically mean one must be forced in to supporting their national side. It is a matter of preference and should always, always, be the individual's choice.

 

[jethro11]

It is a matter of preference and should always, always, be the individual's choice.

One of the great things about our country, and hopefully it will be like that forever

 

[aidancdaman]

That may be bringing the intelligence up but there's a hell of a lot dragging it right back down.

This place is Mensa compared to half the people you meet in Auckland.....

Just realised how good the Black Keys sound. And it took me this long to discover them.....I should really hit myself for that.

 

[Silent Alarm]

Still for the life of me cannot understand how someone can dislike a national team. I'm with SHP that it is almost quite disrespectful. You don't have to follow or support them but to support against them is wrong imo. Hoping Australia lose the cricket is really no different to supporting against us in the Olympics and I can guarantee you couldn't bring yourself to do that. You don't have to watch the cricket or get behind us but how can you support against us? If you really do hate us, just keep it to yourself its not something to be proud of and go boasting around. You all know that I don't like soccer and will be lucky to watch 5 minutes of the world cup but I still don't go around supporting England or the USA or something. I still would prefer us to win over anyone else but just aren't all that bothered if we lose

How is it disrespectful? This nation prides itself on being free. Free thought allows me to do believe in the things I want to. I'm not conspiring against the nation. I want Australia to prosper -- Australia the country. I am under no social or legal obligations to follow a national sports team.

Australia has so many people of ethnic backgrounds. I have an Italian friend with an Italian family. They always support Italy in the World Cup, as opposed to Australia. So many ethnic groups in Australia are much like this. If you asked them their thoughts on our country, they'd almost definitely endorse it. They don't despise Australia or Australian people. They're a part of Australia. Yet apparently this is "disrespectful" and "something not to be proud of". That is just insane.

For your information, I don't support Australia at the Olympics. But I just don't find the Olympics interesting. I find it relatively boring, cringeworthy, and overblown.

Some of your thoughts and ideologies are absolutely scary. Perhaps you should keep your one-eyed, narrow view of Australianism to yourself. You are no more Australian than me. You do not have the right to attempt to constitute what makes an Australian an Australian. Gain a wider perspective. Australianism is embedded in a number of different alleys -- not just your conceited ones.

 

[PAFC_04]

How is it disrespectful? This nation prides itself on being free. Free thought allows me to do believe in the things I want to. I'm not conspiring against the nation. I want Australia to prosper -- Australia the country. I am under no social or legal obligations to follow a national sports team.

Australia has so many people of ethnic backgrounds. I have an Italian friend with an Italian family. They always support Italy in the World Cup, as opposed to Australia. So many ethnic groups in Australia are much like this. If you asked them their thoughts on our country, they'd almost definitely endorse it. They don't despise Australia or Australian people. They're a part of Australia. Yet apparently this is "disrespectful" and "something not to be proud of". That is just insane.

For your information, I don't support Australia at the Olympics. But I just don't find the Olympics interesting. I find it relatively boring, cringeworthy, and overblown.

Some of your thoughts and ideologies are absolutely scary. Perhaps you should keep your one-eyed, narrow view of Australianism to yourself. You are no more Australian than me. You do not have the right to attempt to constitute what makes an Australian an Australian. Gain a wider perspective. Australianism is embedded in a number of different alleys -- not just your conceited ones.

And the king of twisting posts and taking out only what he wants strikes again! Determined to make me look like some sort of psychotic maniac, he returns in the usual heroic manner...

You aren't under any obligations as such to support the team but its just an unwritten law. I don't have a problem with you not following them or disliking some aspects but wanting them to lose is just... 'strange'. They wear the coat of arms proudly and are determined to do the best to represent our country. They do it for national pride, for you and me and every other citizen of our great country. Whether you like it or not, they are representing you and if you ever got to the stage of playing international cricket, it would be in a baggy green. You don't have to love every single player but at least respect the team and its importance in our culture, that's all I ask. Go ahead and enjoy watching Sachin make 200* against us because even I will enjoy that (to an extent). Just keep the slamming to yourself, as you've said it isn't constructive and for 99% of our cricket watching population its quite hurtful. If I was out there representing the country, fighting for our pride I would cringe at these comments. As I said just show a bit of respect towards the team, that's all Don't have to love em, just don't hate on em

And for your Italian friends, good on em. If you weren't such a selective listener you would've read my post to Andonis. Twisting at its best, yet again If you were born in another country or have relatives and heritage from another country then the same thing applies, show your own pride and support your own country. Don't have a problem at all with them supporting their country of origin, provided that they show a bit of respect to Australia and understand that they will probably be the minority in this country. Naturally I'm sure they probably favour Australia when Italy isn't playing anyway.

Once again, like football or soccer or cricket or any other sport, the Olympics doesn't have to be your thing. Fair enough that you don't watch or support it, there's nothing saying you have to and I respect that. Personally I love them, as its a great opportunity to watch different sports and feel national pride, but we're different and that's cool As long as you don't go out supporting against us or being angry when we lose, no issue whatsoever

Never said that I'm "more Australian" or telling you how to live your life or whatever, just giving my own opinion which you don't seem to respect. Stop thinking you're so much better than me. You question and even abuse me for my opinions but as soon as I slam yours you reply "it's a free country, we are all entitled to our own opinions" and get all defensive. Bit hypocritical?

Really think you're going over the top by saying that my opinions are "absolutely scary". Don't have any idea what I've said to prompt that bullshit?!? As I've said, you take what you want, blow it up and then pinpoint on tiny aspects. That's pretty offensive tbh, just because you don't understand me as a person. You make so many assumptions of me that its ridiculous and ****ing annoying too! Because I don't agree with everything you say and do does not make me "wrong" or "narrow-minded". If I'm not one to question you, how can you question me as a person?

 

[Andonis1997]

Wow...

 

[PAFC_04]

Meh, could be cardworthy but this bloke's been giving me the shits with all his assumptions of me. Gotta be getting the point across...

 

[Willo #6]

We've had this argument numerous times before, why have it again? Everybody just has different opinions, there's no right or wrong. Let's move on, there's much more interesting things to discuss.

 

[TheDoctor11]

Both of you, cool your jets. You've both got different opinions, no need to start huge fights over them.

 

[Silent Alarm]

And the king of twisting posts and taking out only what he wants strikes again! Determined to make me look like some sort of psychotic maniac, he returns in the usual heroic manner...

You aren't under any obligations as such to support the team but its just an unwritten law. I don't have a problem with you not following them or disliking some aspects but wanting them to lose is just... 'strange'. They wear the coat of arms proudly and are determined to do the best to represent our country. They do it for national pride, for you and me and every other citizen of our great country. Whether you like it or not, they are representing you and if you ever got to the stage of playing international cricket, it would be in a baggy green. You don't have to love every single player but at least respect the team and its importance in our culture, that's all I ask. Go ahead and enjoy watching Sachin make 200* against us because even I will enjoy that (to an extent). Just keep the slamming to yourself, as you've said it isn't constructive and for 99% of our cricket watching population its quite hurtful. If I was out there representing the country, fighting for our pride I would cringe at these comments. As I said just show a bit of respect towards the team, that's all Don't have to love em, just don't hate on em

And for your Italian friends, good on em. If you weren't such a selective listener you would've read my post to Andonis. Twisting at its best, yet again If you were born in another country or have relatives and heritage from another country then the same thing applies, show your own pride and support your own country. Don't have a problem at all with them supporting their country of origin, provided that they show a bit of respect to Australia and understand that they will probably be the minority in this country. Naturally I'm sure they probably favour Australia when Italy isn't playing anyway.

Once again, like football or soccer or cricket or any other sport, the Olympics doesn't have to be your thing. Fair enough that you don't watch or support it, there's nothing saying you have to and I respect that. Personally I love them, as its a great opportunity to watch different sports and feel national pride, but we're different and that's cool As long as you don't go out supporting against us or being angry when we lose, no issue whatsoever

Never said that I'm "more Australian" or telling you how to live your life or whatever, just giving my own opinion which you don't seem to respect. Stop thinking you're so much better than me. You question and even abuse me for my opinions but as soon as I slam yours you reply "it's a free country, we are all entitled to our own opinions" and get all defensive. Bit hypocritical?

Really think you're going over the top by saying that my opinions are "absolutely scary". Don't have any idea what I've said to prompt that bullshit?!? As I've said, you take what you want, blow it up and then pinpoint on tiny aspects. That's pretty offensive tbh, just because you don't understand me as a person. You make so many assumptions of me that its ridiculous and ****ing annoying too! Because I don't agree with everything you say and do does not make me "wrong" or "narrow-minded". If I'm not one to question you, how can you question me as a person?

I never twisted your words. You literally said it is disrespectful to dislike a national sporting team. I basically reinforced my belief that the comment you made was illogical. I only "took what I want" because they were the bits I disagreed with. Most arguments do not rebute the original statement 100% -- they challenge the points of a disagreed ethic. And that is precisely what I have done. If you don't understand the basic fundamentals of argument, don't attack my argument for being fallacious.

Cultures have many unwritten laws. I can name some atrocious ones. Just because it is, according to you, unwritten, does not make it appropriate. And the thing is, 'respecting' a sporting team is not an unwritten law. That is so crazy. How many people in Australia contribute to our nation without liking sport? It's not unpatriotic and it's not un-Australian. I don't care if they wear the national crest. I don't hate the crest. I dislike the culture of the team and the players who make up the team. If the Australian cricket team was comprised of respectful, fair, and genuine people, I'd not dislike them.

And do you really believe Australian cricketers think of the every day, middle class bogan? They think about their spot in the XI and hope they can make some money. There's no fault in that at all. But to suggest they're doing it 'for us' is very naive.

Please, do not portray a cricket team as "fighting for [Australia's] pride". I find that disrespectful. Our nation is forged on so much. Our pride will not made or broken by well paid sportsmen with large ego's. Seriously, the idea of them 'fighting' is absurd. Cricket is a game. In the grand scheme of our country and our world, it is minuscule.

"...for 99% of our cricket watching population its quite hurtful". Please. If you're sincerely offended by the pattern of support one shows toward a sports team, you shouldn't be into sports. I'm not hurt when someone says they hate Fremantle. I'm not hurt if someone says Fremantle are an embarrassment. This is sport. It can mean so much. And for sport to mean much, that's a very special bond. But to be hurt by comments? I believe that shows immaturity and a lack of perspective. The world can hurt you. What someone says about your sports team should not ever hurt you like other things can.

I do not hold disdain for Australia's cricket team because they're the team of Australia. I hold disdain because I don't like what they represent. I find their actions somewhat arrogant. If they were the English team, I would feel the same way. Do you actually realise that?

"Selective listener". The post to Andonis was just that -- a post to Andonis. It was not directed at me. It was not a part of the wall of text that I rebutted. That's why I directly quoted you -- because my post was in reference to that.

Why should an Italian-Australian show respect to the Socceroos? They can support the Azzuri. But these people do all they need to be a respectful Australian: They pay their tax, they're not societal menaces, and they don't conspire against the country itself. They simply do not like a team comprised of Australian players. They don't hate Australian people, or Australia as a country. There is no need for them to respect our sporting teams. As long as they respect Australian law -- and that's not some "this is our country do what we say" garbage. That is just an application to all Australian citizens.

And you are telling me how to live my life. You're implying that I am disrespectful because I don't like Australia's cricket team. In fact, this little excerpt literally shows you attempting to make me do something:

"Show a bit of respect / Don't have to love 'em, just don't hate them"

If that isn't giving directions on someone's life, what is?

I never said I'm better than you, and I'm not a bigot, so I don't think I am better than you. Don't cast such assertions.

I "slammed" you because you were rude. You had no tolerance for my opinion. You criticised me and implied that I was un-Australian and disrespected my nation of birth. That's offensive and you've no right to tell me what I am and what I am not. Perhaps if you respected me in the first place, I wouldn't rebute your insensitivity toward difference. I don't care what you think of soccer or anything. But I do care about your aloof attitude and pedestal -- I do not like your self-approved position of power. That's why I'm criticising you. I don't care what sport you like. I do care about your levels of respect toward another human being.

Your belief was narrow minded. Not everyone cares about sport. Not everyone respects a national team. I said your beliefs were wrong because they simply are. There are no two ways about it. Supporting a cricket team does not pigeonhole your Australianism or national pride.

I don't understand your last sentence. But I think you're trying to say that you never questioned me. And ugh... if that's what you think... then okay mate.

 

[TheDoctor11]

Guys. ENOUGH.

 

[Omegaville]

I remember seeing Australia lose a match by 1 run... chasing 180-odd the Aussies managed to collapse to 7/72 and 9/140-odd until Tim May and Craig McDermott dug in and almost got home. McDermott was last man out when a Courtney Walsh delivery struck the grille of his helmet, David Williams (wicket keeper) claimed the catch, and the umpire gave him out. ROBBED. No referrals or independent umpires in 1993. That match was Justin Langer's debut, too.

A year later I saw South Africa set Australia 117 to win... and the Aussies managed to screw that up and go all out for 111.

If I were picking the team, in light of today's result...
OUT: Hughes, Ponting, Hussey, Haddin.
Keep the bowlers - they haven't done anything wrong, have toiled hard and bowled out teams pretty cheaply.

Hughes has got no idea. One bowler has sussed him out, it's fair to say other bowlers are watching this and have written their notes. I haven't seen a batsman exposed like this since Michael Bevan copped short balls in England in 1997.

Hussey got a million chances in his last rough patch and got through. It shouldn't happen again. Lessons should be learnt from Marcus North's tenure.

Haddin is a hopeless keeper - he doesn't dive for the ball like Healy used to, I regularly see him standing and watching the ball go past the slips. Can't forgive his golden duck in South Africa, with his team 5/10 or something ridiculous, he walks out and tries to smack the ball out of the park rather than play watchfully.

Ponting should have been given the khyber after the Ashes... but he was given a chance just so he might see sense and go on his own terms. But instead there's this romantic notion that he'll make one more century. It ain't gonna happen.

Am running out of patience with Khawaja too. He isn't having an impact, getting out before he becomes truly set. I'd get rid of Clarke if he wasn't the captain, too.

Are there batsmen out there? Sure. The in form guys would be:

Peter Forrest
Wade Townsend
Michael Klinger
Chris Rogers

Chris Hartley is a shoo-in with the gloves, although Pete Nevill's having a great season with the bat.

Dan Christian should be the automatic choice for all-rounder, and deserved to be picked at this time last year. Handy bowler but damaging #6 batsman. I can see why he didn't get into the Hobart test XI, it was going to be a tight squeeze, but offing a couple of batsmen now should help.

Shane Watson is a muppet.

 

[PAFC_04]

Could say so many things about that last post to me but I won't. Still think my opinions are being generalised and made to sound worse than what they actually are but I'll be responsible...

 

[Andonis1997]

Facepalm.jpg It's getting old! You guys are acting like 6 y.o. brothers!
Look, come on. Doc's layed down the law guys. Let's get back On Topic and forget all about this.

 

[PAFC_04]

Seriously considering leaving forever, so much politics its not even funny. At least a spell of a few months off could be nice. Really keen for summer to kick off properly so I can enjoy myself. Its been pretty uneventful so far Hopefully the party I'm going to on Saturday should kick things off properly

And btw Andonis, there is no topic to get back onto haha

 

[Andonis1997]

Oh... Get back to being random?

 

[PAFC_04]

Haha yeah

 

[Ochre]

Fremantle are an embarrassment.

good call

 

[workhorse]

I remember seeing Australia lose a match by 1 run... chasing 180-odd the Aussies managed to collapse to 7/72 and 9/140-odd until Tim May and Craig McDermott dug in and almost got home. McDermott was last man out when a Courtney Walsh delivery struck the grille of his helmet, David Williams (wicket keeper) claimed the catch, and the umpire gave him out. ROBBED. No referrals or independent umpires in 1993. That match was Justin Langer's debut, too.

A year later I saw South Africa set Australia 117 to win... and the Aussies managed to screw that up and go all out for 111.

If I were picking the team, in light of today's result...
OUT: Hughes, Ponting, Hussey, Haddin.
Keep the bowlers - they haven't done anything wrong, have toiled hard and bowled out teams pretty cheaply.

Hughes has got no idea. One bowler has sussed him out, it's fair to say other bowlers are watching this and have written their notes. I haven't seen a batsman exposed like this since Michael Bevan copped short balls in England in 1997.

Hussey got a million chances in his last rough patch and got through. It shouldn't happen again. Lessons should be learnt from Marcus North's tenure.

Haddin is a hopeless keeper - he doesn't dive for the ball like Healy used to, I regularly see him standing and watching the ball go past the slips. Can't forgive his golden duck in South Africa, with his team 5/10 or something ridiculous, he walks out and tries to smack the ball out of the park rather than play watchfully.

Ponting should have been given the khyber after the Ashes... but he was given a chance just so he might see sense and go on his own terms. But instead there's this romantic notion that he'll make one more century. It ain't gonna happen.

Am running out of patience with Khawaja too. He isn't having an impact, getting out before he becomes truly set. I'd get rid of Clarke if he wasn't the captain, too.

Are there batsmen out there? Sure. The in form guys would be:

Peter Forrest
Wade Townsend
Michael Klinger
Chris Rogers

Chris Hartley is a shoo-in with the gloves, although Pete Nevill's having a great season with the bat.

Dan Christian should be the automatic choice for all-rounder, and deserved to be picked at this time last year. Handy bowler but damaging #6 batsman. I can see why he didn't get into the Hobart test XI, it was going to be a tight squeeze, but offing a couple of batsmen now should help.

Shane Watson is a muppet.

It's been discussed to death in the cricket forum and the general consensus is that nobody really wants to drop half the side and take 4 debutants into a Boxing Day test.

IMO
- Hughes has to go no questions. Complete technical flaw that needs time and attention to correct.

- Haddin has to go. Mediocre keeper and an average batter that is constantly defended for his 'attacking game' when he fails.

- Khawaja, Ponting and Hussey should play but are all very lucky. Patience with Khawaja is wearing thin. He looks very good once he plays himself in. Definitely needs to fire on Boxing Day or its back to shield cricket.

- Hussey is a proven match winner that has continually stepped up when his spot in the team is challenged (r.e Ashes last summer) Hopefully he can deliver next test or unfortunately Huss (I love ya) but it's time to go.

- Ponting (as with Hussey) has credits in the bank that will most likely see him play in the team regardless of his contributions until he improves his scores or retires. I hope he announces retirement at the end of the summer before the next test and he can glide worry-free through the Indian series and make some runs.

- I don't really think that Mitchell Starc is quite ready for test cricket. Really raw young guy that I think can be an exceptional player, with more shield games under his belt.

Replacements
- If fit, Watson to replace Hughes and open with Warner.
- If Watson isn't fit, Marsh in to bat at 3 and Khawaja open.
- If Marsh nor Watson are fit, Ed Cowan gets a very well deserved test call-up.

- At this stage, Matthew Wade should replace Haddin. I believe Tim Paine is a more complete player but at the moment injuries are a big concern so Wade gets the nod. (At a later date - after Hussey/Ponting have retired - I wouldn't mind Paine and Wade both playing for Australia but one of them as a specialist batsmen - most likely Paine - I think its a great idea and has worked for countries like New Zealand (McCullum/Young) South Africa (Boucher/DeVilliers) and Sri Lanka (Sangakarra/Jayawardne).

- As for bowlers, I don't mind seeing Starc play but I think that 3 aggressive bowlers may be a little risky against India because if Sehwag or Tendulkar get on top of them, who is there to tie up one end.
Even though he has hit a form slump, hopefully Trent Copeland bowls well in the exhibition games and may get a call up.

I'm hoping the lineup looks something like this

1. Warner
2. Watson/Cowan
3. Marsh/Khawaja
4. Ponting
5. Clarke
6. Hussey
7. Wade
8. Siddle
9. Pattinson
10. Copeland/Starc
11. Lyon

 

[PAFC_04]

Just to let you all know, now that I've calmed down I've realised that I was probably in the wrong and said some pretty stupid and harmful stuff Yes, I made a dick of myself and I've PM'd SA and the Doc to apologise for my actions. Hopefully there'll be no more of this childish shit from myself and the board can move on as per normal, as if nothing ever really happened Sorry to the rest of you guys who've had to put up with this too

 

[Andonis1997]

You're starting to sound like Ben Cousins: I'd like to apologise for my actions, to the Richmond Football Club, to the fans, the members and the AFL for what I have done. I understand now that I did the wrong thing, and I am truly and utterly sorry.

 

[Silent Alarm]

Me and PAFC are now in love, have a beach side shack in Frankston, and are ready to welcome a new child into our life.

 

[PAFC_04]

You're starting to sound like Ben Cousins: I'd like to apologise for my actions, to the Richmond Football Club, to the fans, the members and the AFL for what I have done. I understand now that I did the wrong thing, and I am truly and utterly sorry.

Haha, not sure what he'd be apologising to Richmond for though? Wouldn't it be West Coast

Me and PAFC are now in love, have a beach side shack in Frankston, and are ready to welcome a new child into our life.

 

[E92_]

Facepalm.jpg It's getting old! You guys are acting like 6 y.o. brothers!
Look, come on. Doc's layed down the law guys. Let's get back On Topic and forget all about this.

Anything is a topic in this thread...

good call