Play Nice Random Chat Thread: Episode III

[Val Keating]

s**t he’s back out there

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

What's politically correct got to do with anything I said there? The focus is less on the left/right thing than blaming the media for sensationalizing and antagonising and causing so many problems, which you actually do quite a bit, and again here when you say that they're one of the problems. I coudln't disagree more. In fact, I would argue that the problem is the sustained and baseless attacks on prestigious media organisations from, well, everywhere that has eroded trust. "Everything" was an exaggeration, sure.

I didn't jump down your throat, or at least didn't intend to, but it's pretty tiring to see the 'left media' blamed for something that probably CNN or the NYT reported on. And that's not just you, but a cumulative thing. Reporting on something doesn't mean they're sensationalizing it. I don't understand why the media is so often the focus when they're simply doing their jobs. It takes the focus off the people who the stories are actually about.

I use politically correct in its original manner and context, using the proper terminology/degrees of etc. Wasn't my main point and shouldn't have been part of my original post, as it wasn't a fair summation.

In fact, I would argue that the problem is the sustained and baseless attacks on prestigious media organisations from.

Disagree, it is the lack of accountability of the Murdoch press and others have enjoyed for so long in publishing poorly verified stories that has eroded trust; people lying to you tends to do that. The Rebel Wilson defamation case is a prime example of the tabloid like nature of the media and some people having an absolute gut full of it. Look at the AFL media, it is utterly saturated with tabloid garbage and gossip like rumours. The general populace tends to thrive off drama like the sheep that they are, but not everyone accepts that type of world.

In saying all that, the somewhat privileged position of the media (in terms of some extra defamation legal protections in regards to keeping the government and its services accountable) has generated some untowards angst towards the media and has definitely fed into the current 'fake news' narrative. Notice how I don't often use the term fake news term, it is a rubbish concept.

Reporting on something doesn't mean they're sensationalizing it

Never said it did, nor have my posts inferred that notion. It is the presenting of arguments with limited viewpoints, limited evidence, using sources that fit into a certain narrative (i.e. exploiting drama), etc., that develops an almost propaganda like narrative or dramatise an event and this annoys a lot of people. Some media corporations and journalists act as virtual partisan mouthpieces or are pushing a certain agenda in line with their corporate masters or producers. Fox is the foremost example of this. It is why you see every Tom, Dik and Harry launching their own sites/blogs/channels, as they are tired of the narratives being spun. People don't pick on the media for the sake of it, there's plenty of fire to the smoke, so to speak.

You want to defend the fourth estate, good for you, there are plenty of good journalists out there, but there's plenty of vocal crap ones too. The fourth estate is not what it used to be and it is evolving into a billion different voices on the internet. Whether that improves the situation or not, is up for debate.

 

[tazaa]

Bradbury champions

 

[Snake_Baker]

When did the ok hand signal get labeled as a white power sign? FMD the internet is cactus.

Started as a 4chan in-house prank and a lot of the left leaning media took the bait.

The politically correct are in fact the new nazis.

I'm not even slightly kidding either. They are dangerous.

 

[Snake_Baker]

 

[Orange Peanut]

****. Klay Thompson looks like he’s done a knee

**** he’s back out there

Pretty unbelievable that both these things were true!

 

[Themanbun]

What's politically correct got to do with anything I said there? The focus is less on the left/right thing than blaming the media for sensationalizing and antagonising and causing so many problems, which you actually do quite a bit, and again here when you say that they're one of the problems. I coudln't disagree more. In fact, I would argue that the problem is the sustained and baseless attacks on prestigious media organisations from, well, everywhere that has eroded trust. "Everything" was an exaggeration, sure.

I didn't jump down your throat, or at least didn't intend to, but it's pretty tiring to see the 'left media' blamed for something that probably CNN or the NYT reported on. And that's not just you, but a cumulative thing. Reporting on something doesn't mean they're sensationalizing it. I don't understand why the media is so often the focus when they're simply doing their jobs. It takes the focus off the people who the stories are actually about.

I know this is probably a little different to the social side of the 'mainstream' media's reporting, but I have seen multiple news organisations owing allegiance to various owners try and whip up a neoliberal coup in a country close to my heart. They did not care about the truth when it was pointed out to them by locals on the ground.

We all remember the stage when many of these organisations fed into a (falsified) narrative and led to the invasion of Iraq, and the deaths of many thousands of innocents in the process. Cast your mind back further and we've got the Vietnam War, the anti-communist hysteria during the Cold War, and numerous other narratives that many (I guess not all) organs of the media ran with to convince a population to assent to shedding innocent blood the world over.

As the other poster said, there's a lot of smoke to this fire. Do I like what has come out of it, with YouTube cranks making s**t up as they go? No. I don't. But if you ask some of the families of the innocents across the world who've perished at the hands of media driven hysteria, they'd probably tell you that 'fake news' isn't a new phenomenon, and those 'prestigious media' organisations have been involved in their fair share of it.

 

[ferball]

It was started by a bunch of your standard centrist conservative internet trolls and it took on a life of its own. The media took it as 'projecting' after they found out they were duped. The actual far-right leeched onto the concept and started using themselves as an attempt at backdoor like recruiting, which failed in its attempt, but succeeding in convincing people in the media and internet that it was a white power symbol. It is why some people consider 4chan as a far-right site, when in reality, it probably isn't.

4chan was never a far right site. It was never political just full of smart arse s**t stirrers.

If it had a political bent it was anti-authoritarian. Who knows what happened once the started ******* about with pr0n and sigil magic, Pepe the Frog and an old, dead Egyptian god tho.

 

[ferball]

No, modern history. Think Australia buying expensive weapons from the Yanks and inviting ourselves to their wars.

Hope there is a chapter on why the JST should be replaced with drones.

 

[ferball]

I don't understand you jumping down my throat on the occasions that I am not politically correct in my terminology.

'the left-wing media' being at fault for everything'
I have never said that they were and I rather you didn't put words in my mouth. It is a gross over-simplification and, somewhat, condescending in tone. I have been fairly consistent since day 1 of the GE thread.

The media, in general, has a lot to answer for in over-sensationalising topics and worsening an already tenuous political climate, mostly for viewership and, for some, partisan activism. The media is being used as a political tool by some, as it has always done.

As for the left-right stuff, I have also made it clear, that the right has been as virtually as bad as the left in using divisive identity politics, albeit in different ways. The reason I probably spend more time on the left, is because people on this site often question my stance on the left and, therefore, I defend my arguments. I have been nuanced in my posts on differing political variants and philosophies. Generally, this has been respectful.

As for the other stuff, refer to my second response to VK. The fact is, a decent percentage of the visual media got it wrong reporting on the origins of it all. They took the bait the first time and, afterwards, the far-right leeched on like the cretins they are.

What you call the "left leaning media" isn't left leaning at all tho. The Overton window has moved so far to the right this century that it gets called that but isn't actually left leaning at all. Green left weekly is left leaning media. All of those other things are capitalist enterprises that fundamentally support capitalism and individuality over any form of non state collectivism and the only form of state collectivism they support are the states we live in as part of a modern market economy.

The media that doesn't like the alt lite isn't left wing. Its centrist. Hillary Clinton isn't left wing. She is a war mongering, Wall st stooge.

Doesn't stop people calling her one tho and as a result the "centre" moves further to the right. There is no true centre.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Hope there is a chapter on why the JST should be replaced with drones.

It is one of my case studies.

https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/loyal-wingman-drone-wont-solve-raafs-biggest-challenge/

Who knew a short range multi-purpose fighter, with no sovereign strategic weapons and nearly entirely dependent on American logistics, would be so contrary to our needs...

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

What you call the "left leaning media" isn't left leaning at all tho. The Overton window has moved so far to the right this century that it gets called that but isn't actually left leaning at all. Green left weekly is left leaning media. All of those other things are capitalist enterprises that fundamentally support capitalism and individuality over any form of non state collectivism and the only form of state collectivism they support are the states we live in as part of a modern market economy.

The media that doesn't like the alt lite isn't left wing. Its centrist. Hillary Clinton isn't left wing. She is a war mongering, Wall st stooge.

Doesn't stop people calling her one tho and as a result the "centre" moves further to the right. There is no true centre.

The spectrum has definitely evolved into blurry lines.

 

[ferball]

The spectrum has definitely evolved into blurry lines.

We measure reality in at least 3 dimesions, and its almost functionally impossible to do stuff (ie build and engineer things) without accounting for all three dimensions.

Yet our political spectrum is a "left - right" spectrum where no one really gets either side (or relativity). The abc's political compass was at least a start (even tho its a poor copy of other ones and they themselves are flawed.)

Left right - collective/individual probably works as one axis, then you could have an authoritiarian/libertarian one, with civil liberties, drug use, taxation etc etc. That is two but there needs to be more. Conservative/Progressive maybe ... if it applied to social things but then it conflicts with the libertarian/authoritarian one. there are others but I've got to go out now so i'm not gonna chase them up yet. (Plus I'd rather hear what other epople think would make good ones.)

It would be much better for the country and for political debate imo.

People who disagreed on one spectrum would probably find common ground on another and at least see a potential for working together instead of against each other all the time because of essentially one set of arbitrary differences in the way they see the world.

 

[ferball]

It is one of my case studies.

https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/loyal-wingman-drone-wont-solve-raafs-biggest-challenge/

Who know a short range multi-purpose fighter, with no sovereign strategic weapons and nearly entirely dependent on American logistics, would be so contrary to our needs...

At least the f -111 scared the Indonesians. Genuinely. capable of wiping out their government if they tried anything ith us in the last third of last century and they knew it.

We're not really potential enemies with anyone else. Well anyone else we can realistically fight.

(And lets face it if we want to stand on our own two feet we need WMDs. Even I recognise that and I'm about as anti war as you can get.)

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

At least the f -111 scared the Indonesians. Genuinely. capable of wiping out their government if they tried anything ith us in the last third of last century and they knew it.

We're not really potential enemies with anyone else. Well anyone else we can realistically fight.

(And lets face it if we want to stand on our own two feet we need WMDs. Even I recognise that and I'm about as anti war as you can get.)

We’ve mostly fought in anti-insurgency and regional stabilisation campaigns since 1945, yet we continued to buy expensive weapon platforms, they easily fit into American task groups and conventional warfare operations.

My PhD is going to answer why we keep doing it to ourselves.

The F-111 was a superb aircraft. The raaf wanted to fit nukes to it, Menzies and co wouldn’t have a bar of it. Hell, the raaf even wanted nukes fitted to their sabre jets.

 

[Val Keating]

That was a good episode. Also learned during that episode that Twitter killed the handle of the person in your aviator

 

[Snake_Baker]

That was a good episode. Also learned during that episode that Twitter killed the handle of the person in your aviator

.........and these people complain about ****ing Nazi's?!

THEY are the REAL danger.

 

[Val Keating]

.........and these people complain about ****ing Nazi's?!

THEY are the REAL danger.

He’s right about the people writing the algorithms for Twitter & Facebook being the most powerful people in the world right now. Scary s**t

 

[Val Keating]

Loved this.

 

[Val Keating]

Can play

(Language warning)

 

[ferball]

He’s right about the people writing the algorithms for Twitter & Facebook being the most powerful people in the world right now. Scary ****

Yet they were nobodies 15 years ago (when Joe still had some psychedelic cred). That's a bigger lession to take from the moment now - that power has never been so easy to get a handle on if you think innovatively and use your brains.

Ravikant is interesting - that thing about politics and tribalism ... it can be solved in a society that doesn't view all politics on the one binary spectrum very easily. Don't identify with a side, identify with the ideas you'd be prepared to die for and support the ones you think should be supported. These days people forget the Liberals ended the White Australia policy, staged the '67 referendum, enacted Whitlam's land rights legislation and started a "regional solution" (like the one Gillard tried and Abbott's party voted against to leave gillard in the s**t regarding boat people) for Vietnamese boat faring refugees following the fall of south Vietnam.

Those ideas are antithetical to LNP politics today and could never be supported by that party (or the ALP if they wanted to win an election.) Simply because of that tribalism and all or nothing attitude he is talking about.

But if you completely disengage then the people with power will get away with all sorts of s**t that won't bother you until it does bother you and its too late to act on it.

But the best thing in that exert was the last line.

People should do that more.

You won't catch Joe really pushing that tho. Too much cash in brainwashing people.

 

[Val Keating]

Yet they were nobodies 15 years ago (when Joe still had some psychedelic cred). That's a bigger lession to take from the moment now - that power has never been so easy to get a handle on if you think innovatively and use your brains.

Ravikant is interesting - that thing about politics and tribalism ... it can be solved in a society that doesn't view all politics on the one binary spectrum very easily. Don't identify with a side, identify with the ideas you'd be prepared to die for and support the ones you think should be supported. These days people forget the Liberals ended the White Australia policy, staged the '67 referendum, enacted Whitlam's land rights legislation and started a "regional solution" (like the one Gillard tried and Abbott's party voted against to leave gillard in the **** regarding boat people) for Vietnamese boat faring refugees following the fall of south Vietnam.

Those ideas are antithetical to LNP politics today and could never be supported by that party (or the ALP if they wanted to win an election.) Simply because of that tribalism and all or nothing attitude he is talking about.

But if you completely disengage then the people with power will get away with all sorts of **** that won't bother you until it does bother you and its too late to act on it.

But the best thing in that exert was the last line.

People should do that more.

You won't catch Joe really pushing that tho. Too much cash in brainwashing people.

There’s a lot to unpack there Ferbs

 

[ferball]

Yeah there is ...

Thats a 21st century problem in general I reckon.

Mathematics - algorithms in general, have been really important over the last 30 years.

I used to do a bit of search engine optimisation based solely on intuition and a feel for how the google algorithms worked but a bit over a decade ago they got really different really quickly. Probably because a lot of people got involved with trying to do SEO.

Google began to tweak its algorithms to control messages around the same time iirc. The people doing the same thing with twitter and facebook today are younger versions of the people doing that (some individuals are most likely still involved with but there is a decade of young hungry maths wizzes competing as well.) facebook and Twitter weren't really effective platforms back then, they'd just begun their rise to power.

The things that will hold the same place in a decade aren't even on our radar yet, and the people that will be writing the algorithms that control how they sort information are in many cases probably in early high school right now. But they will have that sort of power by the time they finish high school and do a few years of MIT or something practical.

Before Search Engines then social media maths dominated Wall st. People came out of prestigious maths institutions and walked into jobs in big financial firms doing all sorts of really complex maths, writing cutting edge software on cutting edge hardware and then making heaps of cash. Some people blame those people for the GFC. Micheal Lewis (Liar's Poker and Moneyball) might be one of them but I'm not 100% sure. He's not a fan of high frequency trading.

 

[Chadwiko]

The politically correct are in fact the new nazis.

I'm not even slightly kidding either. They are dangerous.

Total nonsense.

 

[Val Keating]

White power?