Play Nice Random Chat Thread: Episode III

[ferball]

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This is often the reasoning used to discredit science (look who is funding it!). That's an issue of transparency. A problem and why ethics boards exist. The issue shouldn't then lead to "well funding is an issue so let's use some hocus pocus thing highlighted by a naturopath or I read some cool things online and it worked for one or two people"

Scientific rigor and transparency are very important. The translation of knowledge is just as important. Whilst statistically significant isn't always the best method for research the last thing you want is statistical anarchy and people dancing around the point like a car salesman. Often the fluff untested stuff is peddled by an uneducated person trying to make a buck anyway.

Quoting old dead people doesn't make art relevant. But I do understand why art students will cling to it. After all, I'd be pi**ed off if I did a degree that every other field wrote off as meaningless. At least they can make chairs that restrict manspreading

Art degrees and arts degrees are different. You know that right.

Also...

Quoting old dead people doesn't make art relevant.

What does make art relevent then?

Often the fluff untested stuff is peddled by an uneducated person trying to make a buck anyway.

Very true, and why stuff that is tested is preferred by most people. That doesn't mean everything else is bullshit tho, but I'd say certainly some of it is. Having a straight spine is good for you, for example. It might not stop cancer like some chiropractors claim but it will make your life more pleasant and less painful than not having one.

Also, and since Brad's gone this is a good story.

I know how to make Goanna oil. Proper goanna oil, from dead goannas. It works on soft tissue injuries. They heal quicker. And better.

It would never be economically viable to make it and sell it. Its just not remotely reasonable or feasable. There aren't enough Goannas to cover the AFLs needs as it is. Even wholesale farming wouldn't make it economically viable. As it is killing Goannas is a shit thing to do anyway unless you are gonna eat them as well or have to protect your own chooks or whatever. Even that sucks.

So my opportunites to make it are limited to roadkill really. Fresh roadkill at that.

Its never gonna be tested. No one is ever gonna be able to use it and produce the oil in any statistically meaningful way. Unless genetics finds a way to grow particular parts of a goanna in a lab, from cheap easily accessed nutrients. Maybe that would work.

Anyone selling it would have to dilute it beyond any functional concentration to actually work (yea homeopathics) or sell something else in its place. Otherwise they'd have to wipe out local populations of animals. Therefore anyone buying it and using it or testing it will be buying bullshit in a bottle.

On top of that Goanna oil has amazing penetrative properties. On par with Twinkletoes.

So its really hard to store. You basically make it and use it or you'll lose it. So anyone selling you it in a container is probably scamming you.

Its completely reasonable that snake oil has the reputation it does and has become a a synonym for political promises and the spiels of scammers.

 

[Sopwiths North]

There's one more story from that time worth repeating.

And it fits with what you are saying about allternative treatments and western medicine.

Same guy, I was learning that form still and went into town with my wife and a friend. We were doing specific Chi Kung exercises - this one was allegedly sposed to balance your left and right brain. Whatever that means... You stand in a typical horse riding stance and hold your hands in front of your head. Put your fingertips together and hold your hands at your eye height. So your hands form a kind of similar shape to what I image your brain looks like in your skull.

Its really hard to keep your hands still in this exercise. They move and kind wiggle around alot and eventually settle. Its a good exercise and even thop the description (balancing your brain's ghemisphere's) is a little strange on the face of it - its probably a very good one. Its a great exercise for clarity of thought. MY wife starting going very weird. She felt sick, uncomfortable, and her hands were a bit freaked out especially between one pair of fingers on one hand. We stopped what we were doing. Tried again and the same thing immediately.

We stopped fully and the guy showing us said: "Go and get that checked out by a doctor. Straight away. There's something going on there you need to sort out." MY wife (well we hadn't been married yet,) freaked out. She never did get it checked either despite me hassling her a few times. (You can't push this stuff too hard tho or people just double down.) It really scared her obviously cos she never did anything like that related to body "energy" again - ie no yoga, meditation or chi kung. Stoppped doing whatever training we were doing too even tho it was just forms, kata and (mostly light) sparring.

A few years later she started having seizures and we found something in her brain using these new fangled MRI machines that had just found their way to Australia. She had a lesion in her temporal lobe that triggered (and still does) serious seizure activity and was diagnosed with epilepsy.

In the part of her brain that would be represented by the parts of her hand that went weird on her doing that exercise.

These days the term "complementary medicine" gets used alot and I can really see the value in that term.

Those exercises diagnosed her condition years before it showed itself in anything other than minor (ie unnoticeable if you have them) petite mal seizures, or day dreaming (like what inspired Kekule to visualise the benzene ring as a worm eating its own tale,) ironically enough.

Not with the accuracy of an MRI scan obviously but with enough accuracy to point to needing an MRI (tho they weren't available wheb this happened. The first local ones arrived within a year or two,) to diagnose what was specifically happening.

I understand the difficulty with scientific testing of this stuff. How do you even begin?

WE tried these experiments once, years ago around the same time, with this guy in the biomechanical/sports science department at SCU. Using another Chi Kung exercise to strengthen maximal contractions in your quads and to see if it increased fibre recruitment in a maximal contraction. 3 groups were tested. A control group that did an exercise program alone as a control, a group that did the chi kung exercises alone and no extra exercise regime and a group that did both. Unfortunately not enough people completed the exercise programs properly and there wasn't a big enough sample size to get meaningful results.

I was doing alot of work that involved covering heaps of ground up and down hills for hours a day but had been for ages. That particular exercise made climbing hills ridiculously easy. Anecdotally it worked for me. And my output (ie how many trees i planted) went up. I dunno if it was statistically significant but it was financially significant.

It was very interesting and anecdotally (I was in the group that just used the Chi kung exercise)

I feel bad for your wife ferbs, because that must have been really frightening for her. But that experience is, as you say, a really good example of how there is a place for alternative modalities when it comes to healing. I guess it comes down to fear of the unknown all the time, doesn't it - I mean, if we don't understand how something works, or we can't "prove" its existence, then it must not be legitimate or real. It's our defense mechanism to not having to deal with that which we can't explain. I don't think we can do "scientific testing of this stuff". How would you begin? I don't know. But then, I don't think we necessarily need to either - partly for reasons you outline in your goanna post, but also because I feel it's okay to just go on your own guidance with respect to your own health sometimes. Not everything has to be dictated by scientific "proof". It's okay to take responsibility for your own health and follow your own intuitive path about what sort of treatments you might need, and what you think you might want to live without. See what's out there, make your own choices. Listen to what your doctor says, sure, but also be aware of the fear-based place a lot of western medicine comes from.

You probably already know this, but CBD/THC is often really helpful for seizure disorders. Well, at least in dogs it is. I'd assume the same would be true for people.

 

[ferball]

I feel bad for your wife ferbs, because that must have been really frightening for her. But that experience is, as you say, a really good example of how there is a place for alternative modalities when it comes to healing. I guess it comes down to fear of the unknown all the time, doesn't it - I mean, if we don't understand how something works, or we can't "prove" its existence, then it must not be legitimate or real. It's our defense mechanism to not having to deal with that which we can't explain. I don't think we can do "scientific testing of this stuff". How would you begin? I don't know. But then, I don't think we necessarily need to either - partly for reasons you outline in your goanna post, but also because I feel it's okay to just go on your own guidance with respect to your own health sometimes. Not everything has to be dictated by scientific "proof". It's okay to take responsibility for your own health and follow your own intuitive path about what sort of treatments you might need, and what you think you might want to live without. See what's out there, make your own choices. Listen to what your doctor says, sure, but also be aware of the fear-based place a lot of western medicine comes from.

You probably already know this, but CBD/THC is often really helpful for seizure disorders. Well, at least in dogs it is. I'd assume the same would be true for people.

Yeah about the Cannabis. But we used to smoke heaps - but even round here its hard to maintain a constant supply without having to buy it so that's a real issue. She would say that her seizures were made worse by having to cut back after we ran out, for example. Even if its just a couple of weeks at a time. Plus smoking (- edibles are fine if you want to spend the day unable to move I spose)... but these days there are ways around that.

Of course that's an issue directly attributable to a stupid law. But also ... she can't drive without official medication. Personally I think pot would be a better option, even for driving ... that could be bias but anti epilepsy drugs seriously **** with people too.

 

[Sopwiths North]

Yeah about the Cannabis. But we used to smoke heaps - but even round here its hard to maintain a constant supply without having to buy it so that's a real issue. She would say that her seizures were made worse by having to cut back after we ran out, for example. Even if its just a couple of weeks at a time. Plus smoking (- edibles are fine if you want to spend the day unable to move I spose)... but these days there are ways around that.

Of course that's an issue directly attributable to a stupid law. But also ... she can't drive without official medication. Personally I think pot would be a better option, even for driving ... that could be bias but anti epilepsy drugs seriously fu** with people too.

Yep, spot-on ferbs, and I feel very strongly that cannabis should be legal anywhere in the world. It's an untapped gold mine when it comes to beneficial uses. And with so little side effects too, unlike some of the seizure meds your wife is on. And I know about those a bit too, cos I have an Aunt who's had 2 brain tumours removed, and they're brutal. She's not supposed to drive without them either, but she ditched them years ago because she just couldn't handle what they did to her.

The first dispensary that opened here in Canada sold out on less than 4 hours. Like, big surprise, Govt. dudes, way to be prepared. You people have NO idea - leave the growing of cannabis up to the folks who are already doing it and doing it well. They know what they're doing, but no, the govt shuts them down and tries to produce it themselves. And not only did they not come up with nearly enough to meet the demand, a lot of what they sold initially was full of mold. Really poorly handled it was in this country. But fortunately most of the pre-existing shops just ignored the govt and carried on selling anyways. Which I'm sure a great deal of people were thankful for! Haha, anyways, nobody really got too bent out of shape about it at any point. It was so prevalent here before legalisation that you really barely notice the difference. Business as usual - just legal now.

I hope Australia looks at legalising it. The sooner the better, for the sake of a lot of people, and especially your wife, and those in similar need.

 

[Groin guru]

What does make art relevent then?

This a trick question?

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Yep, spot-on ferbs, and I feel very strongly that cannabis should be legal anywhere in the world. It's an untapped gold mine when it comes to beneficial uses. And with so little side effects too, unlike some of the seizure meds your wife is on. And I know about those a bit too, cos I have an Aunt who's had 2 brain tumours removed, and they're brutal. She's not supposed to drive without them either, but she ditched them years ago because she just couldn't handle what they did to her.

The first dispensary that opened here in Canada sold out on less than 4 hours. Like, big surprise, Govt. dudes, way to be prepared. You people have NO idea - leave the growing of cannabis up to the folks who are already doing it and doing it well. They know what they're doing, but no, the govt shuts them down and tries to produce it themselves. And not only did they not come up with nearly enough to meet the demand, a lot of what they sold initially was full of mold. Really poorly handled it was in this country. But fortunately most of the pre-existing shops just ignored the govt and carried on selling anyways. Which I'm sure a great deal of people were thankful for! Haha, anyways, nobody really got too bent out of shape about it at any point. It was so prevalent here before legalisation that you really barely notice the difference. Business as usual - just legal now.

I hope Australia looks at legalising it. The sooner the better, for the sake of a lot of people, and especially your wife, and those in similar need.

All drugs should be legalised, not just cannabis.

 

[D23D]

Sopwiths North I'm with you on the holistic inter-connectedness of everything too. I've seen some odd stuff with weird body healing. The most interesting was when I hurt my hand at work once and it swelled badly quickly. It wasn't broken but it was a serious soft tissue injury of some sort. I did I.C.E it for a while but went back to work. I was driving home thru Nimbin and saw this guy I knew who was showing me a particular Tai C'hi form who i trained a bit of other stuff with.

So this is exactly what he did. He grabbed two cute female tourists asked them if they wanted to help do a quick chi healing thing (smartarse) and then we stood in a circle on the footpath and visualised the energy flowing between us in a circle. Pretty much following a standard Chinese model of chi/qi flow. (He was describing it to the girls and telling them to visualise it.) The swelling went down within about 2 minutes and it was particularly strange the way my senses became incredibly heightened. Like I'd had some strong psychedelic and it was just starting to come on but I hadn't even had a beer or joint after work let alone a tap of acid. And it was really a very clear feeling I'd associate with other things than drugs.

It could have been a really creepy vibe with those tourists but it wasn't. It was nice tho in a "thanks for helping out" way. We went our own way straight after and I never saw them again. (I gave that guy a ride home tho he may have hooked up with them later.) Bizarre the way certain points in the landscape really stood out too. Its hard to explain I guess but it was a weird (in a good way) experience. Nimbin has an epic landscape around it tho. Its in a valley in the eroded crater wall of a 23 million year old volcano which is one of the largest if not the largest land based intact caldera on earth.

My hand was still a little sore but by the time I got home it was like it had a week's healing in a couple of hours. I was at work the next day and I didn't expect to be till after the weekend.

It wouldn't have worked without those two girls. There was something about the male female male female set up ... its a long time ago and I can't really remember but I'd say we were breathing in synch but opposite to each other too. Don't quote me on that - it was the impression I had from the experience but its over 20 years ago and old memories like that are notoriously unreliable. I didn't watch them to know but if you do that chi stuff your hand should change its shape depending on whether you are breathing in or out.

Definitely the connection to the land in that spot too.

There's not many places you can do something like that in the middle of the street at 4 or 5 oclock in the arvo and no one bats an eyelid.

Funny. When two cute females hold me, I start swelling up!

 

[ferball]

Not your hands I hope, altho...

 

[Themanbun]

rickety

Are You able to shed any light on the skill level of the lower divisions of the vafa?

My ACL recovery is flying and physio reckons I should be able to get back into things next season. Looking for a pretty weak division either in vafa or NFNL so I can ease back into things.

 

[rickety]

rickety

Are You able to shed any light on the skill level of the lower divisions of the vafa?

My ACL recovery is flying and physio reckons I should be able to get back into things next season. Looking for a pretty weak division either in vafa or NFNL so I can ease back into things.

Nah mate sorry have bugger all knowledge of those leagues/levels. I play in the AFL Masters, which is a flash and fancy way of saying Over 35's I actually play in the Over 50's, being that I turn 50 later on this year. Depending on your age and your level of desire vs practicality, this may be a good way of keeping you playing footy whilst also getting good rest in between games as we only play every other sunday. The 35's are still entirely competitive and have gotten progressively like normal club footy over the years. There are a couple of rule changes, but its still the same game in all honesty

 

[Themanbun]

Nah mate sorry have bugger all knowledge of those leagues/levels. I play in the AFL Masters, which is a flash and fancy way of saying Over 35's I actually play in the Over 50's, being that I turn 50 later on this year. Depending on your age and your level of desire vs practicality, this may be a good way of keeping you playing footy whilst also getting good rest in between games as we only play every other sunday. The 35's are still entirely competitive and have gotten progressively like normal club footy over the years. There are a couple of rule changes, but its still the same game in all honesty

All good, thanks mate. I'm only 27 but my hairline screams 50.

 

[rickety]

All good, thanks mate. I'm only 27 but my hairline screams 50.

Wonder if you have given the thought of maybe being the runner for a year. Not the same as playing, but it gives you a bit of a footy fix nd some pretty good workouts, Still train at a comfortable level and give your knee another year to heal without the stress of playing

 

[Hojuman]

Guns don't kill people.

Americans kill Americans.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Let the political manoeuvring and point scoring resume.

 

[Hojuman]

Let the political manoeuvring and point scoring resume.

Send thoughts and prayers. Should appease victims families.

 

[ferball]

Guns don't kill people.

Americans kill Americans.

And people from Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, South and Central America, South East and East Asia. Parts of Africa, other parts of the middle east, the odd spot in Europe...

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

And people from Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, South and Central America, South East and East Asia. Parts of Africa, other parts of the middle east, the odd spot in Europe...

NZ, Australia...

Still a heap of unlicensed guns left in Australia.

 

[ferball]

NZ, Australia...

Still a heap of unlicensed guns left in Australia.

I meant Americans.

I don't mind guns, licensed or unlicensed.

Its the idiot using them...

America's problem is America not guns. Its a problem the rest of us to varying degrees.

Its part of American folklore to solve problems with guns not brains. Its why Homer used his pistol to turn out the lights.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

I meant Americans.

I don't mind guns, licensed or unlicensed.

Its the idiot using them...

America's problem is America not guns. Its a problem the rest of us to varying degrees.

Its part of American folklore to solve problems with guns not brains. Its why Homer used his pistol to turn out the lights.

I agree it’s a uniquely American cultural thing, but goes deeper than stuff like the right to bear arms. There’s the Puritan national origins, politics and a mix mash of other events.

Just on the Texas shooting:

Reading a part of the Texas shooter’s manifesto, he bagged both major parties and cited rhetoric linked to passive genocide. You see that later argument amongst true neo-nazi’s and far-righters. They don’t use the more nuanced arguments about cultural integration and multiculturalism of guys like GG cites, they skip it and go straight to the nuclear option of racism eugenics and socio-Darwinism. They are also often suspicious of corporatism and capitalist centric types for encouraging globalisation/higher immigration; another difference between the actual far right and your more extreme tea party and Republican types. Nazism during the Second World War was similar, but was forced out of wartime necessity to work with large corporations.

These far right people see everything as a war, the attempt to achieve their political aims through violence as they can’t achieve it through political/legitimate means. It’s part of the reason why far right attacks rose under Obama and continues under Trump, despite both administrations clamping down on far-right groups, to indifferent effect. Make of that what you will.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Plenty of other societies have lots of guns.

The U.S. problem is a cultural problem, not a gun problem.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Plenty of other societies have lots of guns.

The U.S. problem is a cultural problem, not a gun problem.

It has very deep cultural roots.

 

[Sopwiths North]

It's not just about guns, it's the hatred that being pushed out into communities - blacks, Latinos, refugees, immigrants. American politicians of colour being told to "go back to where they came from" by the country's very own Commander in Chief. Texas shooter had a white supremacist manifesto. Trump has not helped things with his recent ramping up of racist rhetoric. The US has always operated from a place of fear and a perceived need to "defend". They had an American "crime prevention expert" on the news this morning and all he talked about was how the victims had no weapons to defend themselves. Ffs there is no enemy.

 

[Snake_Baker]

 

[Sopwiths North]

None of those are acts of hatred though.

I'd bloody hope we'd respond with emotion, but if you want data on these "spectacles", okay:

There's been 253 mass shootings in the US so far this year. Mass shooting as defined by the FBI is 4 or more people killed.

That's an average of 32 mass shootings a month.

If the White House lowered the flag to half mast as it has done today for every mass shooting in the US then the flag would never be raised.

 

[Snake_Baker]

None of those are acts of hatred though.

None of those acts attract a smidgeon of the media hype, and the resulting generic SJW political responses either.