Play Nice Random Chat Thread: Episode III

[Devington]

Why the hell would we want greater gun ownership in Australia in the first place? The less the better.

That's just like, your opinion, man.

 

[iSmack]

We won't stop this carnige if we solely tighten gun laws

We need to take a multi-disciplinary approach.

Reduce inequality, hunt down hate speech on the internet, in the media and government, and improve mental health services while also eradicating ownership of guns for anyone who doesn't own a farm or is part of recreational shooting club.

It's not just about getting rid of guns but also working on eradicating and or breaking up the environments that breed extremists and terrorists.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

 

[Sopwiths North]

Speech cannot be censored or punished just because of its hateful content.

But when you move beyond content, and look at the context, speech with a hateful message maybe punished, if in that context speech causes serious harm.

A good example is Abou Baker Bashir, the spiritual leader of the Bali bombers. His speech played a part in the carnige caused. I doubt anyone in Australia is defending his right to an opinion? He was rightfully convicted and jailed.

Fraser Annings comments are incorrect from a factual perspective, and also hateful with the desired outcome to make the majority fear the minority.

To have a Queensland senator agree with a calculated murderers logic for slaughtering innocent worshipers who were most likely looking for relief from a stressful day at work is disturbing on every level. But not surprising considering the trajectory of Australian politics and the bizarre introverted and in-ward facing backwater electrote that voted for him.

There are approximately 1.8 billion Muslims on earth who come from over 57 countries with different cultures, languages, education levels and denominations.

Its a known fact in any society, that newly arrived migrants have a higher birth rate.

This is a fact that applies to any migrant community that is seeking a better life. Chinese, indian, African, Eastern European. Birth rates, in practice have nothing to do with religion. My Vietnamese neighbour has 5 children. My mate who is of Irish decent and grew up in Wollongong hails from a family of 8. Religion has no direct correlation with faith.

What's interesting and has been proven by studies, is that the next generation has a markedly lower birth rate which continues to taper down as each generation progresses. And that reduction in birth rate is directly attributable to prosperity and educational attainment.

It's a fact. The more prosperous and educated the lower the birth rate.

If we're interested in a safe and harmonious society, I urge all to focus not on the content, but the context of speech. Then you will be in a better position to come to a conclusion.

Personally, I will continue going to the mosque. I don't fear white supremiscists, racists, or fear mongerers. I've lived with them in certain sections of Australian society all of my life. I've watched them.on t.v and even noticed their names on an electrote ballot.

But I'll tell you who I have a keen awareness of and absolutely ditest?

The undercover fascists, racists, anti-semites and islamophobes who I work with, are in government and lurk around these forums who hide behind honorable liberties such as free speech to encrypt and communicate their twisted logic.

These are the type that have destroyed the lands my parents came from. They are the silent drones that are cowardly, mischievous and very intuned to the encrypted messages from prominent figures of their ilk that have come to positions of power in government and the media.

Do you know how I and many people I know recognise them?

They are the exact same people who would advocate for the swift punishment and censorship of anyone who verbally supports the actions of a violent criminal who inflicts the same harm on their 'mob'.

Go the roos!

Brilliant post, iSmack. Thank you for writing this. "Freedom" and "tolerance" are aspirations, not excuses. And anyone who uses them as excuses to get away with words or acts of hatred, no matter how subtle, needs to be called out. Every single time. That's the only way true change can begin.

 

[RobZombie]

"Queensland Senator Fraser Anning has been widely condemned for his “disgusting” comments in the wake of the fatal Christchurch mosque massacre.

In a media statement issued this afternoon, Senator Anning said the attacks highlighted the “growing fear over an increasing Muslim presence” in Australian and New Zealand communities."

Where does Queensland keep finding these airheaded dickheads to run for office and why do they keep voting for them? What a disgraceful thing to say.

Almost nobody voted for him. He got 19 votes for the senate in Queensland. He was appointed by PHON to their vacancy when Malcolm Roberts got the boot.

 

[Groin guru]

Deepest condolences to Giantroo, Kiwiroo, and anyone else effected by this scum of a human being.

We won't stop this carnige if we solely tighten gun laws

We need to take a multi-disciplinary approach.

Reduce inequality, hunt down hate speech on the internet, in the media and government, and improve mental health services while also eradicating ownership of guns for anyone who doesn't own a farm or is part of recreational shooting club.

It's not just about getting rid of guns but also working on eradicating and or breaking up the environments that breed extremists and terrorists.

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Exactly. That will just spark a greater divide. More needs to be done to fix these issues. It would help if people went back to caring about people.

People want to point the blame at something or someone, but the reality is some people are just broken and are terrible humans.

 

[Flawed Genius]

people want to point the blame at something or someone, but the reality is some people are just broken and are terrible humans.

Sorry gg but this doesn't wash for mine

everything reported today suggested he was a relatively well adjusted, healthy happy Grafton personal trainer before his father died and he went overseas

theres too much evidence that suggests the internet, specifically the right wing element of it, contributed to his radicalisation. Because that's what this bloke is, a radical violent extremist

I don't buy that he falls simply into the category of a "broken, mentally ill guy". I think he knew exactly what he was doing and still does.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Deepest condolences to Giantroo, Kiwiroo, and anyone else effected by this scum of a human being.

Exactly. That will just spark a greater divide. More needs to be done to fix these issues. It would help if people went back to caring about people.

People want to point the blame at something or someone, but the reality is some people are just broken and are terrible humans.

It is a sad reality that people fed off this culture war stuff over free speech versus hate speech. Even in the aftermath, people are doubling down on their ideological stance. The near-universal condemnation of the actions is one of the few heartening aspects of such a horrible event.

Sorry gg but this doesn't wash for mine

everything reported today suggested he was a relatively well adjusted, healthy happy Grafton personal trainer before his father died and he went overseas

theres too much evidence that suggests the internet, specifically the right wing element of it, contributed to his radicalisation. Because that's what this bloke is, a radical violent extremist

I don't buy that he falls simply into the category of a "broken, mentally ill guy". I think he knew exactly what he was doing and still does.

Agreed, radicalisation and dehumanisation, it's something we saw with millions of quite sane Germans and Russians just under 90 years ago going off the authoritarian deep end, but it was propaganda, not internet back then. The internet is quite capable of creating monsters, even ones with a high degree of sanity. I would argue both sides of the ideological spectrum on the internet feed off horrible events like this. The sad reality is that there will probably be a new event next week for people to clamour over.

 

[Val Keating]

Deepest condolences to Giantroo, Kiwiroo, and anyone else effected by this scum of a human being.

Exactly. That will just spark a greater divide. More needs to be done to fix these issues. It would help if people went back to caring about people.

People want to point the blame at something or someone, but the reality is some people are just broken and are terrible humans.

How would better gun control spark greater devide? I can’t think of one good reason any civilian who doesn’t live on a farm or go hunting the need to own a gun. Even then, farmers & hunters don’t need semi automatic/automatic guns. If you’re a hunter and can’t hit it with your first shot, practice, if you’re a farmer ditto.

 

[Groin guru]

Sorry gg but this doesn't wash for mine

everything reported today suggested he was a relatively well adjusted, healthy happy Grafton personal trainer before his father died and he went overseas

theres too much evidence that suggests the internet, specifically the right wing element of it, contributed to his radicalisation. Because that's what this bloke is, a radical violent extremist

I don't buy that he falls simply into the category of a "broken, mentally ill guy". I think he knew exactly what he was doing and still does.

It was a broad statement not specifically focused on this person. But if we are talking about this - IMO it takes a broken person to do what he did and show zero remorse. You don't expect that sort of heartlessness even from trained killers. I do think there are broken people that are on a knifes edge and just need something to tip them over to a point to where they do something so terrible.

 

[Groin guru]

How would better gun control spark greater devide? I can’t think of one good reason any civilian who doesn’t live on a farm or go hunting the need to own a gun. Even then, farmers & hunters don’t need semi automatic/automatic guns. If you’re a hunter and can’t hit it with your first shot, practice, if you’re a farmer ditto.

You can't think of one but you don't speak for all people. The world is far bigger than what you think.

Gun owners view it as a matter of freedom (especially in the US). If it is taken from them it will be viewed as "the left is trying to take my freedom" - People against guns will see it as a victory = more divide. You can disagree all you want but that's what will happen and people will fuel the flame. Australia/NZ no big deal (if laws are tightened because it's not really as big of a deal in both countries (as in people seeing it as freedom etc.)), but it's a big deal in the states.

Read a little more about the second amendment and you'll understand why they are so protective of it over there.

 

[Devington]

How would better gun control spark greater devide? I can’t think of one good reason any civilian who doesn’t live on a farm or go hunting the need to own a gun. Even then, farmers & hunters don’t need semi automatic/automatic guns. If you’re a hunter and can’t hit it with your first shot, practice, if you’re a farmer ditto.

Plenty of non farm living civilians could give you plenty of reasons. They enjoy shooting as a sport or recreational activity, they are collectors with a niche, they want to be able to defend their families etc etc. Add to that the swathes that see it as an issue of personal liberty and freedom.

 

[Groin guru]

I wouldn't sweat anything Candace Owens has to say, spurs. On any subject. She's a disingenuous, painfully-transparent political opportunist who appears to be going down a now well-trodden path favoured by a bunch of people of her ilk....

Step 1: Lay claim to liberal roots
Step 2: Profess to having an ideological epiphany that turned you towards conservative politics
Step 3: Spout a bunch of controversial far-right nonsense to gain notoriety
Step 4: With notoriety duly established, begin to slowly distance yourself from far-right elements/policies in a bid for mass appeal

Yawn. She offers absolutely nothing of value to political discourse. As you may have noticed from her tweets.

The Digital Age....so much to answer for.

(Oh, and since the 'capital N word' has been brought up....she's also one of those paranoid individuals who likes to lean a little too heavily on the whole 'Cultural Marxism' thing which, to paraphrase an earlier post from K4e, is a concept drawn straight from the circa-1940's Nazi handbook.)

Swap a few words around and you have AOC. They are the same person just on opposing sides.

 

[DarkPhoenix]

 

[Val Keating]

Give ths kid a medal

 

[DarkPhoenix]

Hard to figure out your line on free speech From this

If we agree that anning is in a minority, well ok, if he thinks some muslims are set on destroying Western society isn’t he allowed his opinion

The issue with Freedom of Speech is people assume that it has no limitations because of its title.

In fact it does have limitations.

As soon as your "free speech" crosses into hate speech, libel, slander, words intended to inflame a situation with a person or groups or anything which impinges on the rights and freedoms of others you forfeit your right to free speech.

 

[KiwiRoo]

hey thanks for everyone's comments. Its nice having good neighbours !

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

The issue with Freedom of Speech is people assume that it has no limitations.

In fact it does not.

As soon as your "free speech" crosses into hate speech, libel, slander, words intended to inflame a situation with a person or groups or anything which impinges on the rights and freedoms of others you forfeit your right to free speech.

Certainly not the case, major advocates for free speech are well aware of the fact that inciting violence is not a part of free speech and that you have a right to say almost anything else, but that person must be willing to endure/accept the consequences of those words/actions in exchange for that right. Then it becomes a question of slander/libel/hate speech (which is dictated by legislation created over the past few decades and goes into areas such as employment/harassment/discrimination, etc) etc.

 

[Gameova_]

Give ths kid a medal

LOL.

 

[DarkPhoenix]

Certainly not the case, major advocates for free speech are well aware of the fact that inciting violence is not a part of free speech and that you have a right to say almost anything else, but that person must be willing to endure/accept the consequences of those words/actions in exchange for that right. Then it becomes a question of slander/libel/hate speech (which is dictated by legislation created over the past few decades and goes into areas such as employment/harassment/discrimination, etc) etc.

Yep, the problem is the everyday man, not the advocate.

People just hear "Freedom of speech" and use it as an excuse to say whatever they want or defend whoever they want.

"Freedom of Speech" is far more complicated than that

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

hey thanks for everyone's comments. Its nice having good neighbours !

New Zealand and Australia will always be brothers.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Yep, the problem is the everyday man, not the advocate.

People just hear "Freedom of speech" and use it as an excuse to say whatever they want or defend whoever they want.

"Freedom of Speech" is far more complicated than that

Most common day people just forget the consequence part and whinge that their rights are impinged upon when people call them out on their garbage.

As for the inciting violence part, I have always found that part a bit complicated and confusing, but I'm not a lawyer, so what would I know.

 

[DarkPhoenix]

Give ths kid a medal

Way too much force used.

He wasn't resisting, the arm across the throat wasn't needed at all and was applied poorly (should be crook of the elbow in line with the windpipe, not forearm pressed across it), that's how you cause permanent damage.

Absolutely no reason to hold him down as long as they did with as many people as they did when he wasn't struggling.

 

[Devington]

Give ths kid a medal

I'd rather ****ing not, to be quite honest.

We just had over one hundred people shot because of ideological violence, I'm not about to give a kid a pass just because it was with simple egg and to a dickhead.

This is exactly the type of shit the shooter wanted. More violence, no matter how minimal or petty. More justification of aforementioned violence.

 

[The Other Dean]

Swap a few words around and you have AOC. They are the same person just on opposing sides.

That's interesting. I wasn't aware of AOC's prior predilection for conservative politics, and any subsequent "epiphany" that brought about a sudden change in political direction for her.

Could you perhaps fill in the gaps for me on that?

 

[Groin guru]

I'd rather ******* not, to be quite honest.

We just had over one hundred people shot because of ideological violence, I'm not about to give a kid a pass just because it was with simple egg and to a dickhead.

This is exactly the type of shit the shooter wanted. More violence, no matter how minimal or petty. More justification of aforementioned violence.

I agree. That video is poor by all involved. The egg, the slap in return, the barry hall-like choke. The boy filming himself doing it is just stupid too. Everywhere you look people are trying to spin this terrible incident to their advantage. If it isn't a politician it's a wannabe one. If it isn't Clem ford it's another person in the media. Now we have kids filming stuff for some retweets and likes.



Pack it up ladies and gentleman. We have failed. I've moving to a cabin in the woods. You will only hear my North insights via ham radio which I will upload to Big Footy.