Play Nice Random Chat Thread: Episode III

[muttley45]

No mate. Look at your average politician, get a grasp of the constitutional realities of law in this country, then think this through a bit more.

Suitable question for a Referendum, take the pollies out of the equation, and take it to the people ?

 

[Sopwiths North]

It's because of so called "society moral progress" that we can't even say a harmless joke anymore, nor can a woman expect to receive a compliment at work for wearing a nice dress, nor can one even express their view on the web forum without being called a bigot by those who don't even know what the word means.

There is a difference between not accepting racism, to being a politically correct organization that forgets its purpose in society, which is to bring people together by winning games of football!

I recall total strangers in blue and white gear of all races and colours hugging each other at the MCG on the 28th of September1996, followed by sheer ecstasy at Arden St, where nobody dressed in our colours would feel unwelcome, and I say that as someone who's only been in the country for 6 years at the time.

You can say all the harmless jokes you like EH. But racist jokes are not harmless. And I understand about the not being able to tell a woman she looks nice anymore without fear of some sort of terrible accusations of assault. I get that. As a woman, I really do, because I'll be the first one rolling my eyeballs at some of people who have used the me too hashtag as an excuse to out anyone who's even remotely pissed them off in the past. But that doesn't mean there wasn't a long overdue need for change in the level of awareness, and a genuine wrong done to those who started the movement. Life is about greys, and part of being a human being is deciphering what sort of stuff is appropriate and what is not. It's how we grow, and progress to (hopefully) becoming better as a species.

I loved the last paragraph of your post. It says a lot about your country, and a lot about North supporters on that day. Good things. And I've said it previously, but I'll say it again, in case you missed where I posted it - there is no reason why the success of our club, both financially, and in "its purpose" as you say, has to be mutually exclusive of things like The Huddle. Or a woman's team. Or equal rights. We can have both. Which we do, and in my opinion, quite successfully.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Suitable question for a Referendum, take the pollies out of the equation, and take it to the people ?

You need to read some more about the constitutional arrangements of this country. Your scenario isn't feasible, but let's say it did occur at a referendum, once it is applied in the constitution it is open for the politicians to do whatever they like with it.

We need to cut power to the politicians, not give them more power. Particularly the power of life and death.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Maybe my opinion on Wells Fargo is biased because one of the podcasts I listen to did an episode on them recently. A lot of the people in the upper echelon of that company should be in jail, instead they got huge retirement funds.

You’re not biased, they are scum bags, but just not in the case of being responsible for ICE.

 

[Chadwiko]

On the age thing...

Age when first elected to Parliament:

Winston Churchill: 26 - Flawed Hero
Paul Keating: 25 - Communist
Franklin Roosevelt: 28 - Socialist
Jacinda Ardern: 28 - Inexperienced socialist
John F Kennedy: 29 - Appeaser
George Washington: 26 - Hero
Tony Blair: 30 - Great leader

Edited in bold with how I assume Groin guru sees all those listed

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Edited in bold with how I assume Groin guru sees all those listed

Should be anarchist next to Keating

 

[Val Keating]

You’re not biased, they are scum bags, but just not in the case of being responsible for ICE.

Nope. That was ramped up under Obama then put on roids and turned into concentration camps by Trump

 

[Val Keating]

Should be anarchist next to Keating

Slave owner next to Washington

 

[iSmack]

We need to cut power to the politicians, not give them more power. Particularly the power of life and death.

Fully in agreement with respect to your point on reducing and checking the power of politicians.

I have to say though, the tragic circumstances of last week were a testing of character for many....and dare I say a moment of truth for many politicians in Australia.

Firstly, Scott Morrison....talk about a glass jaw... Runs his mouth hurling accusation at ordinary Muslims with respect to Islamic terrorism as if they were the culprits, but kicks and screams foul play when his accused of actually, figuratively and factually speaking, is called out for trying to leverage hate against the community for political points...

Also, the silence from politicians on both sides is staggering.....

What happened to the gusto, proclamations from flag tattered podiums about the "threat to our way of life"?

Do we really want to be governed by people who place the political benefits gained by pandering to a bunch of bogans, drongos and Nazis over the lives of doctors, engineers and students just because they happen to be Muslims?

I was really looking forward to round one this weekend but the state of affairs of late has dampened my week...

 

[Event Horizon]

You can say all the harmless jokes you like EH. But racist jokes are not harmless. And I understand about the not being able to tell a woman she looks nice anymore without fear of some sort of terrible accusations of assault. I get that. As a woman, I really do, because I'll be the first one rolling my eyeballs at some of people who have used the me too hashtag as an excuse to out anyone who's even remotely pissed them off in the past. But that doesn't mean there wasn't a long overdue need for change in the level of awareness, and a genuine wrong done to those who started the movement. Life is about greys, and part of being a human being is deciphering what sort of stuff is appropriate and what is not. It's how we grow, and progress to (hopefully) becoming better as a species.

I loved the last paragraph of your post. It says a lot about your country, and a lot about North supporters on that day. Good things. And I've said it previously, but I'll say it again, in case you missed where I posted it - there is no reason why the success of our club, both financially, and in "its purpose" as you say, has to be mutually exclusive of things like The Huddle. Or a woman's team. Or equal rights. We can have both. Which we do, and in my opinion, quite successfully.

To be fair, I am not against us having a woman's team and I am definitely not against equal rights. I am just against a huge overkill that's been happening in society in general, and made its way to AFL and our club as well. I will not be touching the gay marriage debate here, as I have zero interest of discussing this on a footy forum (just using this as an example), but I will say that changing the AFL logo to a YES was needless gimmick that is part of today's society. That saddens me, that instead of real actions, today's society values nice fake gestures and pretending to be doing something that you have no business being involved in the first place.

I would much prefer to see the ruthless streak in the club. The win at all cost attitude. Something that made Hawthorn the most successful club in the modern era. But somehow our club's transformation into a nice fluffy entity (nothing wrong with the Huddle as such) has coincided with the onfield era where we don't stand for much anymore. Yes we have a few players that typify what North is all about, but as a team we aren't the same. I'd like us to be the side that win lose or draw will make you bruised and sorry that you came up against us. I miss the Pagan era drive and determination. And I would say, given that organizations are very much built on culture, a lot of this modern culture, has filtered through into all levels of the club.

Going back to the woman's team, even though I am not a big watcher of that, and don't know all the names, I loved our recruiting drive and sending the message to the AFLW world that we mean business. We aren't entering this competition just to continue building the Tasmania relationship or to tick the new age image of the club, which I must admit what I feared initially. Yes it's unfortunate we didn't make the finals, but at least we went all in, and came up short. I want to see that at all levels.

 

[Snake_Baker]

I would much prefer to see the ruthless streak in the club. The win at all cost attitude. Something that made Hawthorn the most successful club in the modern era. But somehow our club's transformation into a nice fluffy entity (nothing wrong with the Huddle as such) has coincided with the onfield era where we don't stand for much anymore. Yes we have a few players that typify what North is all about, but as a team we aren't the same. I'd like us to be the side that win lose or draw will make you bruised and sorry that you came up against us. I miss the Pagan era drive and determination. And I would say, given that organizations are very much built on culture, a lot of this modern culture, has filtered through into all levels of the club.

100% agree.

A higher propensity of female involvement (gender quotas etc.) undermines that ruthless streak.

 

[tazaa]

Negative does not necessarily mean inaccurate or incorrect. Take for example, this point from the study:
The negative reports showed that, over the six-month sample period, Muslims were often conflated with terrorism, thereby fueling a stereotype that ‘Muslims are terrorists’.


What do they mean by negative reports? Did they separate the concepts of threat and actual attacks (was not made implicitly clear)? Does this include attacks by ISIS/Hamas etc and the fact that some Islamic based terror groups have strong ties to extreme Islam or the fact that they committed acts of terror, often in the name of Allah? Looking at the study, they are pursuing the argument that the media are not blatantly racist, but are overusing stereotypes, which is true, but definitely not to the degree that the study states.

Looking at quite of the few media source cited, what is considered a negative report pushing stereotypes is very questionable. i.e. A CA report on Mosque Mayhem, that was about embezzlement and inner feuds within one mosque. Wasn't the greatest report in the world, but highlighted how most of the mosque goers were upset about money earmarked for community projects was being siphoned off by one of the mosque leaders. The community project part would be considered a strong positive from my perspective as not many people would be aware of Islamic community support and values. Another supposed negative report was on bigamy, there was nothing factually incorrect about it and had a picture/video of a Mormon family from Big Love at the top of the article. That article stated that it only some Muslims support it, which is generally pretty correct.


In saying all that, I agree with the vibe that the media needs an overhaul. I think the problem with the MSM runs much deeper as it senstationalises and dramatises everything to attract viewers. Most outlets have an agenda and there is definitely select sections of the media who race bait. I'm not sure racial quotas as that philosophy is tied to bull crap like white male privilege. In the end, some people hear want they want to hear in regards to news reports, irregardless of their accuracy.

I agree with everything you said K4E.

And in fact all your above examples in isolation have extreme merit.

And again it reverts back to the sensationalism surrounding the rhetoric behind the reporting. It needs to stop.
Vilification has risen to upteenth levels and all for the sake of a dollar.

I mean you only need to scour the bogan brain dead comments sections of MSM social media platforms to find sadly underprivileged and stricken Australians, failing to find a purpose in life and so they latch on to this agenda becomes it gives them a sense of belonging. What has compounded is unparalleled hate that has been fuelled to the point some bloke has ended the lives of 50 people.

MSM is dying. Newspapers are dying. The only audience left are those vulnerable enough in life to believe every word said to them.
As easy it is for a young Muslim to become infiltrated and turn to extremism its just as easy for a White male to venture the same way.

 

[Sopwiths North]

To be fair, I am not against us having a woman's team and I am definitely not against equal rights. I am just against a huge overkill that's been happening in society in general, and made its way to AFL and our club as well. I will not be touching the gay marriage debate here, as I have zero interest of discussing this on a footy forum (just using this as an example), but I will say that changing the AFL logo to a YES was needless gimmick that is part of today's society. That saddens me, that instead of real actions, today's society values nice fake gestures and pretending to be doing something that you have no business being involved in the first place.

I would much prefer to see the ruthless streak in the club. The win at all cost attitude. Something that made Hawthorn the most successful club in the modern era. But somehow our club's transformation into a nice fluffy entity (nothing wrong with the Huddle as such) has coincided with the onfield era where we don't stand for much anymore. Yes we have a few players that typify what North is all about, but as a team we aren't the same. I'd like us to be the side that win lose or draw will make you bruised and sorry that you came up against us. I miss the Pagan era drive and determination. And I would say, given that organizations are very much built on culture, a lot of this modern culture, has filtered through into all levels of the club.

Going back to the woman's team, even though I am not a big watcher of that, and don't know all the names, I loved our recruiting drive and sending the message to the AFLW world that we mean business. We aren't entering this competition just to continue building the Tasmania relationship or to tick the new age image of the club, which I must admit what I feared initially. Yes it's unfortunate we didn't make the finals, but at least we went all in, and came up short. I want to see that at all levels.

I hear you on all points EH, and I understand your yearning for the drive and determination you've seen in the past. I still don't think you can blame whatever faults you perceive in team performance on the Huddle, or the club's choice to endorse various causes. I still feel we can have both, and that the latter doesn't make us any less driven. I just don't see it as a cause and effect that way.

 

[Heaps of fun]

It's because of so called "society moral progress" that we can't even say a harmless joke anymore, nor can a woman expect to receive a compliment at work for wearing a nice dress, nor can one even express their view on the web forum without being called a bigot by those who don't even know what the word means.

There is a difference between not accepting racism, to being a politically correct organization that forgets its purpose in society, which is to bring people together by winning games of football!

I recall total strangers in blue and white gear of all races and colours hugging each other at the MCG on the 28th of September 1996, followed by sheer ecstasy at Arden St, where nobody dressed in our colours would feel unwelcome, and I say that as someone who'd only been in the country for 6 years at the time.

Got out of South Africa in the 90s huh? Haha just joking.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

I agree with everything you said K4E.

And in fact all your above examples in isolation have extreme merit.

And again it reverts back to the sensationalism surrounding the rhetoric behind the reporting. It needs to stop.
Vilification has risen to upteenth levels and all for the sake of a dollar.

I mean you only need to scour the bogan brain dead comments sections of MSM social media platforms to find sadly underprivileged and stricken Australians, failing to find a purpose in life and so they latch on to this agenda becomes it gives them a sense of belonging. What has compounded is unparalleled hate that has been fuelled to the point some bloke has ended the lives of 50 people.

MSM is dying. Newspapers are dying. The only audience left are those vulnerable enough in life to believe every word said to them.
As easy it is for a young Muslim to become infiltrated and turn to extremism its just as easy for a White male to venture the same way.

I definitely agree. There is so much misinformation about Islam and muslims. I believe the west still struggles with the concept of cultural integration and Islam. The role of the media should be to encourage Islamic experts and religious leaders to come out and debate the deep-seated issues surrounding Islamic and western cultural integration. Once the general population understand the true positive and negative aspects of Islam, they would come to realise that most muslims have integrated pretty damn well into the west. On the other side, muslims will come to understand why the west is culturally different and to embrace those enhanced western values, which sometimes do clash, but also link closely, with Islamic values.

 

[tazaa]

I definitely agree. There is so much misinformation about Islam and muslims. I believe the west still struggles with the concept of cultural integration and Islam. The role of the media should be to encourage Islamic experts and religious leaders to come out and debate the deep-seated issues surrounding Islamic and western cultural integration. Once the general population understand the true positive and negative aspects of Islam, they would come to realise that most muslims have integrated pretty damn well into the west. On the other side, muslims will come to understand why the west is culturally different and to embrace those enhanced western values, which sometimes do clash, but also link closely, with Islamic values.

Well said.

The crux of it is though mate, you ask any refugee or asylum seeker where they want to live and all of them would say home. All of them. The reason as to why they migrate to Europe, the States or here and its purely safety. Nothing else but safety.

What we have seen is decades and decades of destabilization of the middle east to the point it is unsafe to stay and inhumane to live in.
The brain dead majority believe that foreigners come here to take away land or impose their cultural beliefs and its nonsense. They come here because Western governments have bombed the shit out of their homes.

Integration takes time and it works. History proves it.
Where people like Hansen and Anning come into it is they dont want these foreigners to stay. They dont want them to stay here when our governments are the reason as to why there are here in the first place. Cant have it both ways.

 

[kangaspurs]

MSM is dying. Newspapers are dying. The only audience left are those vulnerable enough in life to believe every word said to them.
As easy it is for a young Muslim to become infiltrated and turn to extremism its just as easy for a White male to venture the same way.

IMO this is not a good thing. I mean, sure, traditional media is going through a transition process atm as they adjust to the new media reality, where it's easy for everyone to have a voice, but most of the prominent media organizations not owned by Murdoch are still the best source for independent, comprehensive, thorough, fact-based journalism.

Unfortunately, the ease with which anyone can build a website and peddle whatever they want, and the trend for everyone to move away from facts and into increased amount of confirmation bias has led to a rise in categorically bullshit media organisations like Breitbart, InfoWars, Daily Stormer etc, which lie and pursue an agenda far more vehemently than most of the old MSM institutions, and have little regard for ethics in regards to coverage and truth-telling.

 

[Groin guru]

On the age thing...

Age when first elected to Parliament:

Winston Churchill: 26
Paul Keating: 25
Franklin Roosevelt: 28
Jacinda Ardern: 28
John F Kennedy: 29
George Washington: 26
Tony Blair: 30

AOC: 29

I should clarify...maturity. Some are more mature than others. Also, most of those were in a different era.

 

[giantroo]

 

[susurrar]

thats great news. it was really sounding bad last time i heard about it.

 

[ferball]

Probably be unpopular with some, but i reckon the recent event in NZ is a fair argument for the introduction of Capital Punishment.

If I want someone dead badly enough I'll do it myself and wear the consequences.

That's way too much power for the state imo.

 

[ferball]

Maybe my opinion on Wells Fargo is biased because one of the podcasts I listen to did an episode on them recently. A lot of the people in the upper echelon of that company should be in jail, instead they got huge retirement funds.

Actually on reflection I wouldn't object to the death penalty for certain acts of corporate scumbaggery.

 

[Only Forwards]

Probably be unpopular with some, but i reckon the recent event in NZ is a fair argument for the introduction of Capital Punishment.

Thing is capital punishment is expensive.

Expensive to the point the some states in the US are stopping the practice.

https://theconversation.com/the-dea...-more-and-more-expensive-is-it-worth-it-74294

 

[ferball]

Slave owner next to Washington

Slave owning choofer actually.

And PJK an anarchist? Nah, not really.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Slave owning choofer actually.

And PJK an anarchist? Nah, not really.

I was taking the piss. A good old centre left internationalist was old Keating.