Play Nice Random Chat Thread: Episode III

[DesertRoo]

Do you plan on stretching this to the limits of ambiguity in order to reclaim some credibility?

1) The British made an art form out of race patriotism.
2) Please don't pollute Darwin's name.
3) There was no program of aboriginal genocide in Australia.

You can’t look at Darwin without including his cuz francis galton.
the fact aboriginals were seen as sub human and used in experimentation for the justification of a master race is pretty disturbing.

 

[Snake_Baker]

British colonization isn’t for everyone.
I’m educated by it but others who choose it’s not for them who are we to judge?

You never had a choice anyway mate.

As for the aboriginals, they were conquered by a superior technology, as has happened countless other times to various peoples throughout history.

"Feeling guilt" about this in 21st century Australia is absurd.

 

[Snake_Baker]

You can’t look at Darwin without including his cuz francis galton.

Should we blame Marie Curie for the A bomb while we're at it?

the fact aboriginals were seen as sub human and used in experimentation for the justification of a master race is pretty disturbing.

Ever heard of "the Irish"?

 

[DesertRoo]

Should we blame Marie Curie for the A bomb while we're at it?



Ever heard of "the Irish"?

Ok we won’t call it a genocide, how about 1000s of mass shootings, over a few decades, guided by a philosophy of a superior race with a don’t ask don’t tell policy with authority?
causing a 90% reduction in population.

 

[tazaa]

You never had a choice anyway mate.

As for the aboriginals, they were conquered by a superior technology, as has happened countless other times to various peoples throughout history.

"Feeling guilt" about this in 21st century Australia is absurd.

In communication only.
Which has been around for centuries.

I’m only beneficial as our native language has become the psuedo world language.

My point is I just don’t believe British colonization has been the bees knees the west has made us all believe.

Greeks taught us trade. Arabs taught us numbers.

The British were ruthless conquerors.

You can understand how the Indigenous Australians, the Indian Americans, Asians, Africans and Middle Easterns would look back at colonial rule and think for it to go * itself.

Where I agree with you however is if it wasn’t the British it would have been the French, or the Spanish or the Dutch or whoever was atop the world at the time to go round invading foreign lands.

But it just so happens to be our time in which it’s occurred and the worlds ****ed either way.

 

[ferball]

I'm not "acting" like anything. YOU are reacting emotionally in accordance with your brainwashing.

It would have been nothing for the British to wipe out the aboriginals if they were actually committed to that path.

It's a fallacy.

Bullshit. Have you ever been outside of Victoria? Australia is huge, made up of hundreds of different bits of country. The reason they (the Australian Fed post 1901 and the colonies beforehand) didn't wipe everyone out is cos they weren't capable. Not cos of lack of trying.

Whatever you say about this is wrong and irrelevant anyway. You're only doing it to stir people up.

 

[Snake_Baker]

You need to read up on some British Empire history.

If they were committed to the cause of the genocide of aboriginals, then it would have been achieved.

They controlled a large chunk of the planet.

The fact that it was never achieved is because there never was any such policy.

People misinterpret the mistreatment (in contemporary terms) of the aboriginals as "genocide". It's complete bullshit. It has no proof. No serious intellectual would even entertain the thought.

A + 7.5 x pineapple / B, does not = genocide. No such account exists anywhere in the historical archives.

 

[ferball]

Ok we won’t call it a genocide, how about 1000s of mass shootings, over a few decades, guided by a philosophy of a superior race with a don’t ask don’t tell policy with authority?
causing a 90% reduction in population.

It was genocide. There are nations that don't exist any more because they were wiped out. Whole lines of genetics wiped out.

And in many of those cases it wasn't so much technological superiority as basic dog behaviour. Befriending people over years or decades then poisoning their water or giving them poisoned food.

What happened in Australia was pretty similar to Ireland, and everywhere else Europeans went.

 

[ferball]

You need to read up on some British Empire history.

If they were committed to the cause of the genocide of aboriginals, then it would have been achieved.

They controlled a large chunk of the planet.

The fact that it was never achieved is because there never was any such policy.

People misinterpret the mistreatment (in contemporary terms) of the aboriginals as "genocide". It's complete bullshit. It has no proof. No serious intellectual would even entertain the thought.

A + 7.5 x pineapple / B, does not = genocide. No such account exists anywhere in the historical archives.

Like I said, your comments are factually incorrect and irrelevant.

 

[Val Keating]

You people are aware that Australia was a British colony up until at least 1942, aren't you?

Tell me that some of you are at least aware of that.

So what?

It was genocide. There are nations that don't exist any more because they were wiped out. Whole lines of genetics wiped out.

And in many of those cases it wasn't so much technological superiority as basic dog behaviour. Befriending people over years or decades then poisoning their water or giving them poisoned food.

What happened in Australia was pretty similar to Ireland, and everywhere else Europeans went.

Unfortunately people see Australia as one country then when it was more like Europe in that it was many countries made up of many different peoples.

 

[Snake_Baker]

What happened in Australia was pretty similar to Ireland, and everywhere else Europeans went.

I have read historical accounts that the most murderous actions committed by the British in these times was by placing warring clans in prisons together leading to them murdering themselves.

Are you one of those people who is under the hallucination that aboriginals were skipping about hand in hand and hugging kangaroos when the British arrived?

As for "civilizations", the greatest detrimental factor to aboriginal history was the lack of a written language.

Like I said, your comments are factually incorrect and irrelevant.

Yes, because everything I have ever read on the subject, and its related matters, is inferior to a couple of sentences uttered by someone on the internet known as "ferball".

If you actually believe you have an issue, then take it up with the English.

 

[ferball]

In communication only.
Which has been around for centuries.

I’m only beneficial as our native language has become the psuedo world language.

My point is I just don’t believe British colonization has been the bees knees the west has made us all believe.

Greeks taught us trade. Arabs taught us numbers.

The British were ruthless conquerors.

You can understand how the Indigenous Australians, the Indian Americans, Asians, Africans and Middle Easterns would look back at colonial rule and think for it to go fu** itself.

Where I agree with you however is if it wasn’t the British it would have been the French, or the Spanish or the Dutch or whoever was atop the world at the time to go round invading foreign lands.

But it just so happens to be our time in which it’s occurred and the worlds f’ed either way.

All those European peoples you mentioned. The empires they all controlled were essentially different branches of the same families of northern central European aristocrats.

There is essentially no difference between them. They are interchangeable.

 

[Snake_Baker]

So what?

It's an issue to take up with England, not contemporary Australia.

Aboriginal Australia no longer exists.

 

[ferball]

So what?



Unfortunately people see Australia as one country then when it was more like Europe in that it was many countries made up of many different peoples.

That's right. Europe and even India, (tho really everywhere from the Hindu Kush to Bali) is the same.

Its a myth that the British would have succeeded at conquering every mob in Australia. There were still indigenous people for whom British (or Australian) rule was irrelevant till after ww2. Its not a conquest if you stock a flag on one end of a continent and pretend you own the whole thing.

Some might even say the "British" still can't control places like Palm Island really, let alone the back of the Lockyear valley.

Just thinking about how much effort it took to get a handle on the black economy around Nimbin and really all that was was cosmetic.

The "British" can't even control "Britain".

All this crap is part of the mythology of legitimising the Australian Federal State. That thing that's run out of Canberra.

The closest thing to proper functioning anarchistic societies, ie ones that don't bow to the power of the state, are indigenous tribal societies like those in Australia and Asia, Africa or the Americas. Even European ones like the N'dranghetta and Sicilian Mafia or some bikie gangs.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Its a myth that the British would have succeeded at conquering every mob in Australia.

Its a myth that it was ever even attempted. A complete fallacy.

For starters, Mabo would not exist if that was the case.

/discussion.

 

[DesertRoo]

It was genocide. There are nations that don't exist any more because they were wiped out. Whole lines of genetics wiped out.

And in many of those cases it wasn't so much technological superiority as basic dog behaviour. Befriending people over years or decades then poisoning their water or giving them poisoned food.

What happened in Australia was pretty similar to Ireland, and everywhere else Europeans went.

The systematic destruction and displacement of a people. Is the very definition of genocide. I honestly don’t see how you can see it another way.

it was shocking, it happened, it’s part of the past of Australia, it’s something that we should acknowledge, so we can move forward and grow together as a nation.

 

[Snake_Baker]

The systematic destruction and displacement of a people. Is the very definition of genocide. I honestly don’t see how you can see it another way.

it was shocking, it happened, it’s part of the past of Australia, it’s something that we should acknowledge, so we can move forward and grow together as a nation.

You are taking massive historical liberties with these comments.

You are alluding to:

a) an entire people/s (there's actually 3 anthropological classes of aborigines). This is unmitigated bullshit.
b) the entirety of the state machinery across the entire landscape. This is unmitigated bullshit.

"Rabbit Proof Fence" is not the entirety of British/aboriginal history. It was a case by case selective process that occurred in sections of the country.

Wording like "systematic destruction..........of a people" is an absurd overemotional overreach. I genuinely believed that you were more intelligent than this.

 

[ferball]

I have read historical accounts that the most murderous actions committed by the British in these times was by placing warring clans in prisons together leading to them murdering themselves.

Any campaigner can write a historical account. Doesn't make it accurate. And I'm not denying those things happened. Its why so many missions are so violent today. Places like Roeburn and Palm Island have populations of blackfellas who have been at war with each other since before western "civilisation".

Any historical account that says that was the "worst" thing is still wrong tho.

Are you one of those people who is under the hallucination that aboriginals were skipping about hand in hand and hugging kangaroos when the British arrived?

They were violent, brutal, anarchistic societies so naturally they had more honour and integrity than contemporary western society.

In many cases they (or whats left of them,) still do.

As for "civilizations", the greatest detrimental factor to aboriginal history was the lack of a written language.

Good thing we have the oldest book in the world hey.

Yes, because everything I have ever read on the subject, and its related matters, is inferior to a couple of sentences uttered by someone on the internet known as "ferball".

Probably.

Its certainly looking that way at this point.

 

[DesertRoo]

You are taking massive historical liberties with these comments.

You are alluding to:

a) an entire people/s (there's actually 3 anthropological classes of aborigines). This is unmitigated bullshit.
b) the entirety of the state machinery across the entire landscape. This is unmitigated bullshit.

"Rabbit Proof Fence" is not the entirety of British/aboriginal history. It was a case by case selective process that occurred in sections of the country.

Wording like "systematic destruction..........of a people" is an absurd overemotional overreach. I genuinely believed that you were more intelligent than this.

Your argument has turned into semantics..
I don’t understand what the hold up is for calling it what it was.
This reminds me of arguing with one of my Jewish friends about the Arminian Genocide, he didn’t want to acknowledge it basically because he thought it would lessen the impact of the Holocaust.

yes genocide happens all the time but I don’t understand the point of denying it’s existence.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Any campaigner can write a historical account. Doesn't make it accurate.

You are no different in that case.

And I'm not denying those things happened. Its why so many missions are so violent today. Places like Roeburn and Palm Island have populations of blackfellas who have been at war with each other since before western "civilisation".

Yyyyyyep.

Any historical account that says that was the "worst" thing is still wrong tho.

I have done a bit of reading on this matter, and my view is that settlers were mostly responsible for such acts, which occurred in a wilderness on the other side of the planet and far away from the "civilised" world, without the knowledge, or care, of the state machinery. This was not unusual in wilderness environments of this time. The state is predominately guilty of being negligent, but this does NOT define genocide.

They were violent, brutal, anarchistic societies so naturally they had more honour and integrity than contemporary western society.

Oh please, spare me the ****ing bullshit ferby. My aboriginal mates don't even pull this bullshit. Stop ****ing romancing.

The aboriginals are arguably the world champions of domestic violence and "other" matters. Is there "honor and integrity" in that?

In many cases they (or whats left of them,) still do.

I am more than aware of that. IMO, inter clan violence and anger is far greater than aboriginal anger towards "British" Australia.

Good thing we have the oldest book in the world hey.

The aboriginals were the authors of the Etruscan gold book? The Book of Kells? The Sumerian clay tablets?

Probably.

Its certainly looking that way at this point.

Based on what? The popularity of twits?

 

[Royal Flush]

The systematic destruction and displacement of a people. Is the very definition of genocide. I honestly don’t see how you can see it another way.

it was shocking, it happened, it’s part of the past of Australia, it’s something that we should acknowledge, so we can move forward and grow together as a nation.

Of the 55 historical genocides listed in Wikipedia, the Queensland Aboriginal genocide lists at 45.

So yes it can be called a genocide.

"Shocking" it was, but no more or less then most of the planet during this time in history.



It's been acknowledged and amends is being made generations later.

I agree that the grievance should be made toward the British Empire, and further compensation sought.

60% of the Australian population has British heritage , many Australalians today have no connection to any previous white Australia policy , or genocide of indigenous.

At what point do we determine the levels of guilt and amends are enough?

Years ago I worked in the same job with a mate, same position, same organisation, same gross pay.
He took home in his net pay an extra $180 per week .
I asked him how, he said he's indigenous.



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[Snake_Baker]

Your argument has turned into semantics..
I don’t understand what the hold up is for calling it what it was.
This reminds me of arguing with one of my Jewish friends about the Arminian Genocide, he didn’t want to acknowledge it basically because he thought it would lessen the impact of the Holocaust.

yes genocide happens all the time but I don’t understand the point of denying it’s existence.

Step by step you have drawn out the associations of this subject to the point now where the shark has been officially jumped.

Do some more research on the subject. Not just self reinforcing research either, balanced research.

 

[DesertRoo]

I have done a bit of reading on this matter, and my view is that settlers were mostly responsible for such acts, which occurred in a wilderness on the other side of the planet and far away from the "civilised" world, without the knowledge, or care, of the state machinery. This was not unusual in wilderness environments of this time. The state is predominately guilty of being negligent, but this does NOT define genocide.

Genocide doesn’t have to be state sponsored.
if the settlers caused the genocide, its still so, that doesn’t change if it did or didn’t happen.

I don’t get the denial but I at least thought you’d be all over the reasons and philosophy why it happened thou.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Of the 55 historical genocides listed in Wikipedia, the Queensland Aboriginal genocide lists at 45.

So yes it can be called a genocide.

If historical estimates of around one million aboriginals present on the continent upon British arrival are accurate, then all that can be stated is that the British were massive failures at "genocide" in comparison to their efforts elsewhere.

 

[Royal Flush]

If historical estimates of around one million aboriginals present on the continent upon British arrival, then all that can be stated is that the British were massive failures at "genocide" in comparison to their efforts elsewhere.

Lowest estimate 10k
Highest estimate 60k

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