Play Nice Random Chat Thread IV

[SMaturin]

This is starting to read like exposition in Homage To Catalonia.

 

[Val Keating]

Is there any good reason why they’re not letting them protest? What are they afraid of? Personally I think the government over there has backed themselves into a corner by declaring the protests an unlawful assembly. Terrible decision.

Go after the looters sure, but they’re not. They’re going after the protesters. Probably the worst tactical decision made by the US government under Trump....and that’s saying a lot.

 

[giantroo]

Redirect Notice

 

[sbdan]

Redirect Notice

Not a contributing factor, but just might give those coppers the means to get off.

Could you imagine the sh!tstorm if they do

 

[Gameova_]

Redirect Notice

That covid gets around. Man so many probably Have it but no symptoms

 

[DesertRoo]

No they haven’t because they don’t offer a political program. There is barely even a they.

There’s multiple interest groups, and labelling them antifa is just accepting institutional labelling by trump, police and the military state.

Bullshit... fundamentally it’s a Marxist ideology.
Although I agree with you antifa is an imaginary enemy aimed at the middle class of America, but these kids that are identifying as antifa are being used.

Strangely enough the same thing happened with the rise of Franco and Hitler. Them commies/redshirts are taking over, and all it’s doing is shoring up his base .... What’s that saying if you scream long and aloud enough about something people will start to believe it..

 

[see see]

Not a contributing factor, but just might give those coppers the means to get off.

Could you imagine the sh!tstorm if they do

No need to use your imagination, just refer LA after the Rodney King verdict. Multiply that over dozens of cities.

Don't be surprised if history repeats itself. Then the current stuff will look like a boy scout jamboree.

 

[giantroo]

The #Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison has elevated charges against the officer who knelt on George Floyd's neck to second degree murder and also charged the other 3 cops who were involved.


The other officers at the scene — Tou Thao, J Alexander Kueng and Thomas Lane — were each charged with aiding and abetting second-degree murder while committing a felony, and with aiding and abetting second-degree manslaughter with culpable negligence. Both charges are categorized as "unintentional" felonies.

Four fired Minneapolis police officers charged, booked in killing of George Floyd

The new charges come just two days after Gov. Tim Walz asked Ellison to take over the prosecution in the killing of George Floyd.

m.startribune.com

 

[Tas]

Where did you read that? It's certainly not true.
View attachment 886514

Traumatic Stress in Police Officers

The objective of this book is to demonstrate how adopting a career perspective can provide a more comprehensive conceptualization of traumatic stress processes as they apply to police officers and agencies and provide a framework that can be used to guide research and intervention agenda in ways...

books.google.com.au

Still on Patrol After Two Decades, Valued but Rare (Published 2011)

Officer Peter J. Figoski, 47, who was killed on Monday, had been on the force for 22 years. A relative handful of police officers remain on patrol assignments in their 40s.

www.nytimes.com

Also, can I see a link to the antifa website please

I don't recall where i saw the number, i searched google and saw a number of responses with a relatively short career span. That books is more than a decade old but I would expect a radical shift in the short-term despite the events of the last decade.

Antifa operate like terrorist cells, it is dispersed to make it difficult to bring the organisation down. You can go to the Antifa facebook page, like anyone who looks to recruit. They make it pretty clear there intention is more anti-capitalist than anti-fascist.

 

[Sopwiths North]

Police brutality has existed as long as there has been police, everywhere in the world. It is not something unique to America. My point of the state issue is the state police is a state jurisdiction, say you are elected as president of the USA, if you attempted to force some kind of change to the police, you would be dragged to court and blocked, much like with what has happened every time Trump has attempted to do something he has lacked jurisdiction.

My amusement at the Trump derangement syndrome exists because in almost every facet Obama was as bad, if not worse, and nobody ever called out his s**t. Because he has a silver tongue and understands the political game, people excused him for every atrocity under the sun, some felt they couldn't criticise him because he was black. I think if you treat people differently or hold them to a lesser standard you would someone else then to me that is soft racism, the bigotry of low expectation. I think if Trump said what people on the left wanted to hear but did what he has done regardless then people would have been less hysterical about him. If optics is the only issue then the country is never going to change.

The vast majority of black deaths come from Democratic strongholds and black people largely give the Democrats their votes by default regardless of their policies or their lack of track record in actually doing something to help them. Even though black people are only 13% of the population, they have significant political influence in the states where their numbers are concentrated, the same states which have violence issues, crime issues and police brutality issues. They need to use their political influence to get people elected who are actually going to produce results, regardless if those candidates are democrat, republican or independant. If you keep rewarding political parties that do nothing with your automatic vote, they are going to continue to do nothing because they have no incentive to elevate you out of the gutter if you living in the gutter guarantees them your vote.

The status quo has existed for so long because nobody is being forced to produce results. The president doesn't have the power to make the changes you think he can make, it has to come from state governments.



The Minneapolis chief of police is Medaria Arradondo, a black man. Do you think he is all for police murdering civilians, particularly black civilians? He has been chief of police since 2017. His predecessor was Janee Harteau, she was native american, openly gay and female, she ticks all the diversity boxes, she resigned after the Australian woman was shot dead by a Somali-American police officer. Why aren't all these diverse people making any difference to the Minneapolis police force despite having an active role in employing, training and micromanaging these police officers. You think someone who has the macro responsibility to run the country can micromanage ever single police force?

If the black people don't blame trump, why are they marching on Washington? What do they expect him to do when he doesn't have any authority over the state based police forces. If Obama couldn't get anything done as a Democrat, what do people honestly think Trump can do?



The protests started and continue to be peaceful.

I make the distinction between protestors and rioters/looters/thugs. I do not think they are the same people and there have been clashed between peaceful protestors and the other group as they do not want their protest associated with their criminal behaviour.

I do not believe for a minute that Floyd protestors are killing black people, like David Dorn, who was trying to protect a pawn store from being looted, or the many black business owners who had their businesses destroyed by rioters and looters. Do you think they are protesting Floyd's death by murdering black people and destroying business owned by black people?

I am not going to link it but there is video of Dorn's death, it is quite confronting and I think people need to see it if they are conflicted between the different groups. If you look at the violence inflicted on innocent civilians who had the misfortune of being in the way. To blame this on police or excuse their behaviour is surprising. They even took a puppy from a shelter, tortured it on live tv and ended up killing it by choking it to death. Calling these type of people animals is an insult to animals, animals do not know cruelty or malevolence at this level.



Do you think people mourning Floyd's death and want to see justice are the same people killing black man like David Dorn?



People on the left have a neurotic fear of fascists, which do not exist in the Republican party, but are also the same people who covert with people who do not make any attempt to hide their batshit crazy authoritarian far left ideology. People should actually go to the Antifa website and see the kind of s**t they stand for.

This fascist bogeyman doesn't exist, sane people across the world aren't afraid of a far right uprising, they are afraid of the far left lunatics, it is why almost every western country and shifting towards the right, it isn't because they want a fascist government, because we have safeguards to protect ourselves from fascists... it is the fear of the murderous regimes people on the left openly cavort with make excuses for their abhorrent behaviour. It is disturbing, to put it mildly.

What's disturbing is your insistence on twisting the horrific murder of an unarmed black man into some weird unrelated argument about left and right.

These protests are are about the deep historical structural problems of racism in the US. And yes, racially-based police brutality occurs elsewhere in the world, including here in Canada. It's why protests in solidarity are happening in over 50 countries right now.

In a way, Trump is a silver lining here. He's perhaps the most narcissistic and fundamentally incapable human being I've ever seen put in charge of a country. He's steering the ship right over the waterfall, and as a man who has never been known for his hubris, there's no reason to believe he'll attempt to change course. What comes from the fallout after he steers the ship off the edge, I can only pray is better for the country. Long overdue and meaningful change.

It's not left vs right. It's egoic imbecile at the helm vs human rights.

George Floyd was detained for being accused of trying to use a counterfeit 20 dollar bill. He was unarmed. He was handcuffed, and laid on the ground while 3 white police officers sat on top of him for 9 minutes, one with his knee over Mr. Floyd's neck. These 3 men sat on him without any care until he breathed his last breath and his bladder emptied out onto the pavement as he died.

This is not about left vs right politics. The focus needs to be kept on the issue at hand, which is racism. Political opportunism over this man's death deserves zero oxygen.

 

[Tectonic]

I don't recall where i saw the number, i searched google and saw a number of responses with a relatively short career span. That books is more than a decade old but I would expect a radical shift in the short-term despite the events of the last decade.

Antifa operate like terrorist cells, it is dispersed to make it difficult to bring the organisation down. You can go to the Antifa facebook page, like anyone who looks to recruit. They make it pretty clear there intention is more anti-capitalist than anti-fascist.

I don't consider Quora a reliable source for anything except anecdotal evidence, which is the only source I could find for your claims of 3 year average careers

My anecdotal evidence of family in the service here Australia and abroad runs counter to it anyway. There's many hats to wear in law enforcement, and a very lucrative retirement plan.

Now I've been following the melb antifascist group and slackbastard on Facebook for a long time and while yes, there is a general anti-capitalist sentiment (this is surprising? The downtrodden and marginalised have always been against the established system), the majority of posting and efforts concern counter protesting against UPF, the Lads Society, Blair Cottrell and his ilk and their penchant for instigating unrest (see their newest project at

Spoiler

national-socialist-network.info/

)<spoiler because it's not exactly a worksafe site if you are a normal human.

They also co ordinate marches such as late last year when Kumanjayi Walker lost his life in police custody in the NT.
Not once have I seen them encourage looting or destruction of private property (unless that property belongs to white nationalists)

The most they do is put their stickers or graffiti over the top of other opposing viewpoint stickers and graffiti.



The looting and destruction is not an organised antifa plot to bring down the government. It's opportunists and assholes from a broad spectrum of beliefs.

 

[Tectonic]

What's disturbing is your insistence on twisting the horrific murder of an unarmed black man into some weird unrelated argument about left and right.

These protests are are about the deep historical structural problems of racism in the US. And yes, racially-based police brutality occurs elsewhere in the world, including here in Canada. It's why protests in solidarity are happening in over 50 countries right now.

In a way, Trump is a silver lining here. He's perhaps the most narcissistic and fundamentally incapable human being I've ever seen put in charge of a country. He's steering the ship right over the waterfall, and as a man who has never been known for his hubris, there's no reason to believe he'll attempt to change course. What comes from the fallout after he steers the ship off the edge, I can only pray is better for the country. Long overdue and meaningful change.

It's not left vs right. It's egoic imbecile at the helm vs human rights.

George Floyd was detained for being accused of trying to use a counterfeit 20 dollar bill. He was unarmed. He was handcuffed, and laid on the ground while 3 white police officers sat on top of him for 9 minutes, one with his knee over Mr. Floyd's neck. These 3 men sat on him without any care until he breathed his last breath and his bladder emptied out onto the pavement as he died.

This is not about left vs right politics. The focus needs to be kept on the issue at hand, which is racism. Political opportunism over this man's death deserves zero oxygen.

Police to Floyd, with their combined 200+kgs on top of him: "get up off the ground"
Floyd: "I cant"
Police, still on top of him: "get up now"

Disturbing as all hell

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Bullshit... fundamentally it’s a Marxist ideology.
Although I agree with you antifa is an imaginary enemy aimed at the middle class of America, but these kids that are identifying as antifa are being used.

Strangely enough the same thing happened with the rise of Franco and Hitler. Them commies/redshirts are taking over, and all it’s doing is shoring up his base .... What’s that saying if you scream long and aloud enough about something people will start to believe it..

They’re not Marxist. Some may be. They’re not paid by Soros. They don’t have a website.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

I don't recall where i saw the number, i searched google and saw a number of responses with a relatively short career span. That books is more than a decade old but I would expect a radical shift in the short-term despite the events of the last decade.

Antifa operate like terrorist cells, it is dispersed to make it difficult to bring the organisation down. You can go to the Antifa facebook page, like anyone who looks to recruit. They make it pretty clear there intention is more anti-capitalist than anti-fascist.

Can you link to the Facebook page?

 

[Tectonic]

Can you link to the Facebook page?

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.

www.facebook.com

That's got about 3,000 people.
Here's the Melbourne one with 6k followers

Melbourne Antifascist Info | Melbourne VIC

Melbourne Antifascist Info, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia. 6,482 likes. We're here to promote anti-racist & antifascist happenings around Wurundjeri Country / Melbourne <3

www.facebook.com

For comparison Toronto has 300 followers

There's also this one
https://www.facebook.com/antifascistint/
With 21k followers.

The only one I have seen advocating violent rioting is -big suprise- an ultras page

Ultras Against Racism

Ultras Against Racism. 56,002 likes · 3,304 talking about this. Different Roots, One Game - Ultras Against Racism Send us antifascist/antiracist materials of your

www.facebook.com

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.

www.facebook.com

That's got about 3,000 people.
Here's the Melbourne one with 6k followers

Melbourne Antifascist Info | Melbourne VIC

Melbourne Antifascist Info, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia. 6,482 likes. We're here to promote anti-racist & antifascist happenings around Wurundjeri Country / Melbourne <3

www.facebook.com

For comparison Toronto has 300 followers

There's also this one
https://www.facebook.com/antifascistint/
With 21k followers.

The only one I have seen advocating violent rioting is -big suprise- an ultras page

Ultras Against Racism

Ultras Against Racism. 56,002 likes · 3,304 talking about this. Different Roots, One Game - Ultras Against Racism Send us antifascist/antiracist materials of your

www.facebook.com

The Melbourne one basically shares links and rally times. The focus on antifa is political programming.

 

[Tectonic]

The Melbourne one basically shares links and rally times. The focus on antifa is political programming.

Thought that was pretty clear

 

[DesertRoo]

They’re not Marxist. Some may be. They’re not paid by Soros. They don’t have a website.

The Melbourne one basically shares links and rally times. The focus on antifa is political programming.

These two statements are diametrically opposed, start with the violence/excitement and stay for the philosophy. Without the philosophy they wouldn’t be able to suck so many people in.. they wouldn’t have the extremist element.
Although the word trump is seeming enough of a trigger word these days.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

These two statements are diametrically opposed, start with the violence/excitement and stay for the philosophy. Without the philosophy they wouldn’t be able to suck so many people in.. they wouldn’t have the extremist element.
Although the word trump is seeming enough of a trigger word these days.

What’s the philosophy? It’s not Marxism.

 

[Snake_Baker]

LOL. That's such an awful thing to do to your daughter.

It's abuse!

Creating identity issues in a young child because it suits some airhead who should not have been allowed to breed in the first place.

 

[DesertRoo]

What’s the philosophy? It’s not Marxism.

Really?? Classic Marxism is social revolution arising in response to contradictory and inefficient society. This revolutionary change is the vehicle for fundamental society-wide changes and ultimately leads to the emergence of new economic systems...

they’re not pushing to fix the system they’re in are they?

 

[DesertRoo]

It's abuse!

Creating identity issues in a young child because it suits some airhead who should not have been allowed to breed in the first place.

Never understood the idea that in order to build oneself up you must cut someone down.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Really?? Classic Marxism is social revolution arising in response to contradictory and inefficient society. This revolutionary change is the vehicle for fundamental society-wide changes and ultimately leads to the emergence of new economic systems...

they’re not pushing to fix the system they’re in are they?

They’re not capable of formulating a political program to govern anything. They don’t claim to.

 

[DesertRoo]

They’re not capable of formulating a political program to govern anything. They don’t claim to.

As again, if their goal is to remove a duly elected government, what next?
there’s going to be a massive power vacuum that needs to be filled.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

As again, if their goal is to remove a duly elected government, what next?
there’s going to be a massive power vacuum that needs to be filled.

They’re not positioning themselves as an alternative government.