Play Nice Random Chat Thread IV

[Snake_Baker]

Mate they need something that will never happen an independent oversight committee.

They're always an afterthought.

 

[DesertRoo]

They're always an afterthought.

And limited in scope..

 

[Snake_Baker]

And limited in scope..

Just enough for the foxes to again appear invisible to the chickens.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

No, I wouldn't put you on that list based on your posting. You do seem a bit reactionary though to the idea of systemic racism existing within the police, and I couldn't help but notice at the time that you consistently supported posts by Tas and K4E that espoused the view that there is no systemic racism in policing because hey, they hire black cops, and it must just be a few bad apples.

Plus, you posted some fairly critical and judgemental comments that also contained misinformation about how the incident of Rayshad Brooks played out. He didn't "violently resist" police. He grabbed a taser and then ran. I watched the footage. He threw his arm back for a split second from about 30 feet away, and then he kept running. They shot him in the back and killed him.

And then you had a go at ferball, who, as a person of colour, is someone I view as far more qualified than any white person to describe what constitutes racism.

But you seem to be assuming right off the bat that I'm talking about you, so I'm not sure what that says.

Anyways, I'm not here to fight with anyone. Yes, the problem with police is inappropriate training. It's also systemic racism. It doesn't have to be either/or. It can be both. Police culture lends itself to violence, and violence is rooted in power relations, and racism is an exercise of power. All of these things are systemic problems within police.

You have a real funny way of not picking fights.

Do not reword and add stuff to my arguments to change its ethos for your benefit and my disservice. And if you are going to insult me and then insinuate that I, or others, are racist in previous posts, at least have the fortitude to tag them. If you are going to call someone a racist, you better have some evidence.

Critical race theory is a toxin.

 

[Val Keating]

Lol the cops are full of shit. “Poisoned”

 

[Val Keating]

No wonder they’ve got itchy trigger fingers. They even think people at fast food places are out to get them haha.

 

[Sopwiths North]

You have a real funny way of not picking fights.

Do not reword and add stuff to my arguments to change its ethos for your benefit and my disservice. And if you are going to insult me and then insinuate that I, or others, are racist in previous posts, at least have the fortitude to tag them. If you are going to call someone a racist, you better have some evidence.

Critical race theory is a toxin.

Fair enough. Not sure why I would tag a person who hid the post where he denies the existence of systemic racism behind a spoiler tag though.

You've sided with the police throughout most of your comments on here, and you've also danced around the fact that systemic racism exists by blaming everything on socioeconomic roots and left vs right politics. As I've said to Mr. Nyah, it's all of these things. To deny the existence of systemic racism in today's world means you are either in abject denial, are incredibly tone deaf, or you think that the way we treat Black and Indigenous people is okay, and that millions of protesters are wrong.

There are many problems with our institutions, yes. Systemic racism is definitely one of them. Do you agree that it exists, or not?

 

[Snake_Baker]

 

[Royal Flush]

Been diagnosed with tone deafness.


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[Scallop Industry Thug]

 

[Snake_Baker]

Been diagnosed with tone deafness.

 

[Royal Flush]

Gee and I thought you needed an arts degree to join this echo chamber club.



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[Royal Flush]

Had turn the volume down.

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[Tas]

SA Police punch man during arrest

South Australia Police have launched an internal investigation after an officer was filmed appearing to punch an Aboriginal man on the ground during an arrest last night.

www.news.com.au

It is like there are people who think "how can I make a bad situation worse". Should be fired for stupidity alone.

Deserves a whole lot more than to be fired, police union is going to be the stumbling block in getting rid of shit cops. There is no justification AT ALL under ANY circumstance for a police officer to strike someone, even if they resist arrest. If they resist arrest then charge them for resisting, there are a page long length of additional crimes that come from resisting arrest or being physical with the police.

The police should assume everyone resisting has mental health issues, because many of them do, most people fatally shot by police have mental health problems. We have done a lot of work in terms of training to de-escalate here in Australia but there are still some bad cops that are hard to get rid of, because they abuse the protections put in place to protect good cops from being unfairly terminated. We still have a long way to go, the quality of policing and the standard of care varies dramatically based on where you live here, the places with poorer access to resources have the biggest problems.

I would hope that every police officer handles the public like they would wish other officers to handle their own loved ones in the same situation. That isn't something that is happening, and it should. Police aren't just there to enforce the laws, they are there to protect the community and you don't protect someone with problems by assaulting them.

 

[Val Keating]

Charles Manson would be proud.

One of the terrorists was a USAF sergeant. Mental

 

[Snake_Baker]

Gee and I thought you needed an arts degree to join this echo chamber club.

It helps.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Fair enough. Not sure why I would tag a person who hid the post where he denies the existence of systemic racism behind a spoiler tag though.

You've sided with the police throughout most of your comments on here, and you've also danced around the fact that systemic racism exists by blaming everything on socioeconomic roots and left vs right politics. As I've said to Mr. Nyah, it's all of these things. To deny the existence of systemic racism in today's world means you are either in abject denial, are incredibly tone deaf, or you think that the way we treat Black and Indigenous people is okay, and that millions of protesters are wrong.

There are many problems with our institutions, yes. Systemic racism is definitely one of them. Do you agree that it exists, or not?

The spoiler tag was due to the length of the post and those that didn’t want to read a lengthy post; as if that was the actual reason.

So let me get this right. I am a racist for supposedly ‘siding’ with the police and disagreeing about the scale of racism? Surely you, firstly, realise how nutty that is and, secondly, that my arguments on this subject are a hell of a lot more nuanced than ‘siding with the enemy’. Imagine being called a racist for wanting to defend the police members that aren’t total garbage, whilst still identifying significant policie training and retention issues that lead to unnecessary loss of life.

I hated what happened to Floyd, that poor Australian girl killed by a black cop a few years back, David Dorn, other police deaths and injuries, the murder rates, the despondent suicides, the political extremes wielding their power and all those who suffered during these events. It is called trying to ensure that the basic human rights for every individual, regardless of their background, are at least highlighted and, therefore, being morally consistent in ensuring that every individual life matters.

Why should I waste my time writing a detailed answer to someone who calls me a racist for having the nerve to disagree with your narrow worldview. Not to mention, you have clearly mentioned several times now that you don’t care about my evidence, despite my posts almost always containing a mixed methodological approach.

I am simply just done with you, and anyone else, that agrees with an assessment that has unfairly and completely shitted on my character.

Don’t bother responding, I am done with you and this infernal thread.

 

[DesertRoo]

Fair enough. Not sure why I would tag a person who hid the post where he denies the existence of systemic racism behind a spoiler tag though.

You've sided with the police throughout most of your comments on here, and you've also danced around the fact that systemic racism exists by blaming everything on socioeconomic roots and left vs right politics. As I've said to Mr. Nyah, it's all of these things. To deny the existence of systemic racism in today's world means you are either in abject denial, are incredibly tone deaf, or you think that the way we treat Black and Indigenous people is okay, and that millions of protesters are wrong.

There are many problems with our institutions, yes. Systemic racism is definitely one of them. Do you agree that it exists, or not?

Systemic racism exists in America because poor white folk were convinced by wealthy farm owners, poor black folk would take their jobs/women.

Unless you can see the root cause of the issue here, you’ll be constantly stuck screaming at clouds.

 

[Tas]

No, I wouldn't put you on that list based on your posting. You do seem a bit reactionary though to the idea of systemic racism existing within the police, and I couldn't help but notice at the time that you consistently supported posts by Tas and K4E that espoused the view that there is no systemic racism in policing because hey, they hire black cops, and it must just be a few bad apples.

The reality is, even if we had every police officer be indigenous, everyone in command be indigenous, every politician be indigenous people like you would claim there was still systemic racism in the police force because you are ideologically conditioned to accept it, regardless of the reality. No amount of data will make a spit of difference.

While we still have crimes, particularly crimes to the extent that occur currently in indigenous communities, there is going to be a significant interaction between the police and the community. This isn't just about people cruising around to abuse the indigenous, they are usually calling the police asking for help. For every criminal there are numerous more victims of criminals and in the indigenous community that means there are a lot of people who are victims who do not want to be and want help to prevent them from being killed or abused. We need to have a functional police force that can help them.

Most of our police forces have both Aboriginal Community Liaison Officers and Police Aboriginal Liaison Officers that are used to build solid foundations between the police and the communities. We go out of our way to keep Aboriginal youths out of jail, avoid criminal records, we have many programs between Police and Aboriginal Youths, like the boxing program in Redfern which is about repairing relationships between the community and Police.

I think here in Australia there is a genuine desire to have healthy and happy Indigenous communities and every instance of abuse is investigated, significantly more resources go towards it which highlights why incidents of abuse are much lower now than they for non-indigenous.

I just don't think you can transfer USA or Canadian guilt and dump it on Australia. Sure, we still have incidents of abuse, we still have poorer treatment in regional areas where they lack the resources but there is a genuine desire and action here to improve things. There is far less being done in terms of Aboriginal on Aboriginal care and progress than is made between Police and the public. There is way too much Indigenous on Indigenous crime and that is causing the Police to be involved. It is probability and statistics, every interaction is another percentile chance of an encounter going wrong, no matter how cautious you are, even if the incident rates are much lower than they between Police and non-indigenous, people only need one bad case to wheel out the systemic racism trope. It is systemic if the data say it is. It is a value, a fact, not a feeling.

Plus, you posted some fairly critical and judgemental comments that also contained misinformation about how the incident of Rayshad Brooks played out. He didn't "violently resist" police. He grabbed a taser and then ran. I watched the footage. He threw his arm back for a split second from about 30 feet away, and then he kept running. They shot him in the back and killed him.

That person should never have been shot at, the whole incident is disgusting. There are so many bad cases in the USA where police do not treat people as human beings. They should approached this guy looking to help him, it wouldn't have killed them to have one officer take his keys, drive him home with the other following in the car, have a chat to him about drinking, try and get him into an AA program. Instead he is dead, tragic waste of life, the police there aren't trained to help the community, they are just there to enforce laws, with a heavy hand.

And then you had a go at ferball, who, as a person of colour, is someone I view as far more qualified than any white person to describe what constitutes racism.

I thought Ferball said he wasn't indigenous. Apologies if I confused him for someone else.

Anyways, I'm not here to fight with anyone. Yes, the problem with police is inappropriate training. It's also systemic racism. It doesn't have to be either/or. It can be both. Police culture lends itself to violence, and violence is rooted in power relations, and racism is an exercise of power. All of these things are systemic problems within police.

I am curious, where is this "system racism"? Is it in the politicians that appoint the police? The chief of police? The chain of command? Rank and File?

There has to be some kind of level of authority that promotes it, condones it, protects it. Rather than just use a bogeyman term, quantify it, pick any police force, even in Minneapolis. There has to be something tangible behind the claims. People must be doing something to promote this system of oppression. Who are these people? Look at the cases in question, what has been the response to them, what are the reactions and why. It has to be more than a bogeyman, it is not like we have KKK running around running the show.

I just want people to peel back the rhetoric and look at the people involved, at the end of the day it has to be something tangible and not just a feeling. There are reasons why things break down or don't work as we would like. I just require there to be evidence and the greater the claim, the more evidence is required. If I said Aliens were responsible and mind controlling us you wouldn't accept my feelings, you would want some pretty hard evidence it was happening. I have a hard time believing democratic states, left enough to consider defunding police, with black representation on the council, black chief of police and many black police officers are pushing some narrative of being racist within the police force. It doesn't make sense, who are these bad actors making this happen.

You claimed that I have the opinion that there is no systemic racism, that isn't my opinion. Nobody has shown there is systemic racism. As terrible as the deaths and abuse of black people have been in the USA, they kill and abuse everyone regardless of race or gender. If there is a conspiracy to abuse a particular race more than others as a system of hate, surely we would know about it, people infiltrated KKK, neo-nazi groups. Where is this source of hatred coming from?

 

[Tectonic]

Legit nutcase that lady

 

[Snake_Baker]

Systemic racism exists in America because poor white folk were convinced by wealthy farm owners, poor black folk would take their jobs.

Unless you can see the root cause of the issue here, you’ll be constantly stuck screaming at clouds.

The British utilised it magnificently as a means of wedge politics, and it still carries on in the U.S. today.

Anything that serves to distract the masses from the ultimate issue, the have's & have not's.

 

[Val Keating]

The British utilised it magnificently as a means of wedge politics, and it still carries on in the U.S. today.

Anything that serves to distract the masses from the ultimate issue, the have's & have not's.

The Brits were brilliant at that wherever they went.

 

[Snake_Baker]

The Brits were brilliant at that wherever they went.

The number one weapon in the arsenal of a tiny island that ruled the world.

Keep the masses looking at each other, and not at us while we're robbing them.

True western working class politics is in bad need of a "night of the long knives" in order to purge itself of the fevered egos and academic frauds that have derailed the movement.

 

[Val Keating]

The number one weapon in the arsenal of a tiny island that ruled the world.

It’s amazing what they did. Navy and politics.

 

[DesertRoo]

The British utilised it magnificently as a means of wedge politics, and it still carries on in the U.S. today.

Anything that serves to distract the masses from the ultimate issue, the have's & have not's.

The tutsi and hutu in Rwanda is a fantastic study . Especially if you figure out if the two groups never existed prior to colonial time.