Play Nice Random Chat Thread IV

[krakouers]

I don't really know krakouers, because I'm Canadian!

sorry Sopwiths North but I can’t help it

 

[DesertRoo]

So he is actually gonna become a Lord. That is fu**en hilarious.

Yep, gotta love the brits, to be added to process he needs to be a member of parliament. He’d never get the votes in the House of Commons, so they’ll try and make him a Lord..
But regardless his mere presence will scuttle any negotiations or good faith they had with the EU before.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

I must admit, a lot are pointing out how ****ed it is a white kid can kill 2 people and walk past police (including me).

But then this sheriff, who admitteduly is a racist POS who needs to be removed, discusses the situation, and provides an illustration of how messed up the US is.

"They're responding to that, they see somebody walking towards them with his hands up, that too isn't out of the ordinary given how events have been going on," said Miskinis. "We have armed individuals out protesting or simply walking around exercising (their) right."

People walking the streets with loaded rifles is so ordinary, they didn't notice who just killed 2 people.

 

[DesertRoo]

I must admit, a lot are pointing out how f’ed it is a white kid can kill 2 people and walk past police (including me).

But then this sheriff, who admitteduly is a racist POS who needs to be removed, discusses the situation, and provides an illustration of how messed up the US is.

"They're responding to that, they see somebody walking towards them with his hands up, that too isn't out of the ordinary given how events have been going on," said Miskinis. "We have armed individuals out protesting or simply walking around exercising (their) right."

People walking the streets with loaded rifles is so ordinary, they didn't notice who just killed 2 people.

this is what I was talking about
Emerica....

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

For a bloke who was lamenting the chilling impact of political correctness to sell a book, he's sure fallen upwards a fair bit.

It's as if that was all a performance.

 

[ferball]

no, I haven’t, I was just reading about her, fascinating. I do love a good sitchin fanfare..

I was thinking of people like David Wilcox when I was writing that, seems like exactly the same story thou, give me money and I’ll tell you about a saviour.

So the day she claimed was the arrival for planet X, for years, just happened to be the day the US military conducted Operation Planet X in Iraq. It has its own Wikipedia page you can look up. I have a mate who got into huge debt because he built a shelter in the great dividing range to survive the "pole shift" that was sposed to come with it.

Her Zeta Talk radio show promoting the coming of Planet X also coincided with the rise of Los Zetas, the Mexican cartel that was formed by School of the Americas Special Forces graduates from Mexico and Guatemala.

Weird little coincidence.

 

[krakouers]

For a bloke who was lamenting the chilling impact of political correctness to sell a book, he's sure fallen upwards a fair bit.

It's as if that was all a performance.

Mr Donnelly's book is a collection of more than 60 talking points, with titles including:

• Thought police screening schoolbooks
• Culture wars: the left's university loonies
• How the PC left is rewriting history
• We must never forget the good work of Christianity
• We need to teach our kids that West is best
• Criticising safe schools does not make you homophobic
• All sides deserve a voice in same-sex marriage debate
• The glaring problems with same-sex marriage
• Nothing safe in ignoring basics in education
• 
  
  

 

[ferball]

at a normal time and place, we wouldn’t even be having the discussion, he’d be going for murder and wouldn’t be getting out.

But the country is now so polarised.

The whole situation is ****ed up and incredibly sad.

If I was in the us I'd be pretty upset myself but there is no doubt both sides of this conflict are being played by people with agendas.

There is a massive white supremacist movement in the us that is in the closet and throughout the establishment. Not necessarily Trump related either. It views the civil rights movement as a temporary thing. There were black activists talking about and tracking it a decade or more ago but I couldn't tell you their names.

 

[DesertRoo]

The whole situation is f’ed up and incredibly sad.

If I was in the us I'd be pretty upset myself but there is no doubt both sides of this conflict are being played by people with agendas.

There is a massive white supremacist movement in the us that is in the closet and throughout the establishment. Not necessarily Trump related either. It views the civil rights movement as a temporary thing. There were black activists talking about and tracking it a decade or more ago but I couldn't tell you their names.

I love America and Americans, if you’ve ever had the luxury of traveling there, they’re some of the nicest people you’ll meet. So its absolutely tragic to watch everything in real time..

did you hear the latest from Rand Paul, after being confronted outside the RNC, he wants to make it illegal to target someone for their political beliefs.. a law like that never ends up well.

 

[Tas]

I don't really care.

Don't become a cop if you don't want a dangerous job. If you are too scared to do it properly you shouldn't be doing it.

That is a simplistic attitude that isn't going to solve any problems. It is easy to sit in an ivory tower where you are not exposed to daily crime and human misery and just complain about problems. If they get rid of cops like some of these lunatics are asking for, they are going to disappear from poor communities, rich people will have cops or rent-a-cop gating their community from the riff raff. The vast majority of calls for help come from the extremely poor communities and they are begging for help from the police so they are not robbed, beaten, r*ped and killed in their own homes. These people don't want to defund the police.

It is these "liberal" communities which create the most grotesque living standards and the most abhorrent of human treatment of each other, we should put people on a pedestal for being prepared to wade through this human filth. I'd have some respect for bleeding heart "liberals" who do nothing but complain about police if they put their hand up and said no, i am so offended by what is going on that I am going to enrol and be a policeman and we are going the clean the streets a better way.

The reality is there is nobody better who is prepared to do the work. The police have a hard time finding people prepared to be a policeman before this and they are resigning at record rates. They get paid double what someone in the military gets who goes off to war, that is how unappealing it is to be a policeman.

This isn't a black issue. There are more poor white living in slums in the USA than there are black people and for every unarmed black person killed by police there are numerous more white people killed the same or similar ways. White slums are just as shit as black slums.

I also think you have a dangerously authoritarian attitude to this.

I'm not authoritarian, I am just not a hypocrite. I'd prefer if pacifists were police officers instead of trigger happy cops, but if people like you were cops instead then realistically, you would be killed, be totally ineffective, or your attitude would change pretty quickly. The only pacifist survivors in a theatre of conflict are cowards who avoid it entirely.

I am appreciative that I do not have to deal with it. If I was a cop and forced to work in an environment like a slum in the USA and I thought my life was at risk then I would be firing my gun like Dirty Harry even though I sprain my ankle trying to avoid stepping on ants on the sidewalk. You can't just say la la la and completely ignore where they are sending these people.

See the italic bit? The police don't have the right or authority to tell you to do whatever the hell they want. If police are trying to enforce a behaviour that you know violates your rights why should you put up with it? There are cases in the US where people have used guns in self defence (as a legal excuse) in these circumstances and have been vindicated in court.

If you want to shoot it out with police because you know you are right then good luck with that. Don't be surprised if you end up in a coffin.

We do have laws. They can't do anything they like, but we have a process to punish police who break the rules. The point isn't about just doing whatever police say, it is about de-escalating encounters with police so fewer people are killed. If you did nothing wrong then you have no reason to disobey the police.

Don't say anything other than ask for a lawyer, even if it is one provided by the state, they are experienced with matters involving the police. Who are you, Arnold Schwarzenegger? Are you going to shoot it out with the cops because you think you are right? This is idiocy, I hope you don't have kids and are giving them this advice.

Those two had ample opportunity to physically subdue that guy but they chose not to and hid behind their guns instead. Now maybe they needed more training in unarmed combat but they still shot someone in the back.

I don't know. The dude had kids and he got himself killed in front of them. That is messed up.

Police in the USA are trained poorly, I am not sure if what they did was how they were trained or how experienced they were. The advice i would give to anyone, irrespective how innocent or guilty you are, is to stop when police tell you to stop, to do what they say and do not make sudden movements, do not talk back, you want to de-escalate every scenario you are with someone who is given a gun and permission to shoot people if they feel threatened.

It's ironic that the second amendment exists for these very situations and in places where organisations like the Huey P Newton gun club exist this sort of sh*t doesnt seem to happen.

The second amendment was written when the firearm of choice was the musket that had to be filled with powder in an era where the nation wasn't allowed to mature without significant conflict. If the forefathers had a crystal ball and could see the shitshow that is going on and how paralysed the country is to amend the religious-like constitution now then I daresay it would have been written very differently.

 

[ferball]

I love America and Americans, if you’ve ever had the luxury of traveling there, they’re some of the nicest people you’ll meet. So its absolutely tragic to watch everything in real time..

did you hear the latest from Rand Paul, after being confronted outside the RNC, he wants to make it illegal to target someone for their political beliefs.. a law like that never ends up well.

That law could also have stopped McCarthyism couldn't it?

Rand Paul ... well he'll probably never make an "it's happening" gif.

 

[DesertRoo]

That law could also have stopped McCarthyism couldn't it?

Rand Paul ... well he'll probably never make an "it's happening" gif.

Could you imagine going to a McConnell stacked court and arguing that..

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

 

[ferball]

You love a good Fisking don't you Tas.

That is a simplistic attitude that isn't going to solve any problems. It is easy to sit in an ivory tower where you are not exposed to daily crime and human misery and just complain about problems. If they get rid of cops like some of these lunatics are asking for, they are going to disappear from poor communities, rich people will have cops or rent-a-cop gating their community from the riff raff. The vast majority of calls for help come from the extremely poor communities and they are begging for help from the police so they are not robbed, beaten, r*ped and killed in their own homes. These people don't want to defund the police.

It's not. It's going to be dangerous and potentially life threatening. If you can't deal with that without panicking and shooting like that 17 year old kid up thread then you shouldn't bloody do it. Even that limited video of the Bake shooting shows a decision chain of epic stupidity.

There are poor communities in the US that the cops don't help. That is part of the problem.

Newly-released data shows City continues to deny equitable police services to South and West Side neighborhoods

African American and Latino neighborhoods -- largely on Chicago's West and South sides -- continue to suffer inequitable police services, according to new data obtained by the American Civil Liberties Union of Illinois through Freedom of Information Act requests to the City.

www.aclu-il.org

It is these "liberal" communities which create the most grotesque living standards and the most abhorrent of human treatment of each other, we should put people on a pedestal for being prepared to wade through this human filth. I'd have some respect for bleeding heart "liberals" who do nothing but complain about police if they put their hand up and said no, i am so offended by what is going on that I am going to enrol and be a policeman and we are going the clean the streets a better way.

The reality is there is nobody better who is prepared to do the work. The police have a hard time finding people prepared to be a policeman before this and they are resigning at record rates. They get paid double what someone in the military gets who goes off to war, that is how unappealing it is to be a policeman.

The attitude that the streets need cleaning is half the problem. Police training is another. In the US it's inadequate, in Australia it can turn people into Arseholes who think everyone who isn't a victim of crime must be a criminal.

This isn't a black issue. There are more poor white living in slums in the USA than there are black people and for every unarmed black person killed by police there are numerous more white people killed the same or similar ways. White slums are just as sh*t as black slums.

Yes it is. Repeated studies and analysis of figures show black communities suffer poor policing. Black people are more likely to be arrested for the same thing, more likely to be killed during that arrest and more likely to experience unreasonable policing or over policing compared to white people.

I'm not authoritarian, I am just not a hypocrite. I'd prefer if pacifists were police officers instead of trigger happy cops, but if people like you were cops instead then realistically, you would be killed, be totally ineffective, or your attitude would change pretty quickly. The only pacifist survivors in a theatre of conflict are cowards who avoid it entirely.

You don't know that much about me or what I am capable of however in that situation I would have shot the guy immediately or tackled him and beat or held him into submission first. And i would be capable of it cos if I was enough of a campaigner to join the wallopers I'd train to wallop people every day. Using physical violence is a fundamental skill for a frontline cop.

However your attitude to this is authoritarian and problematic. Police deal with their nations citizens. If policing your nation means you are entering a theatre of conflict are you a police officer or the member of an occupying force? You seem to have no appreciation of the limits of police power, why they exist and the dangers unfettered police powers pose to democracy.

Are you one of these people that lets cops onto your property without a warrant? Even tho you have nothing to hide you are still undermining democracy.

I am appreciative that I do not have to deal with it. If I was a cop and forced to work in an environment like a slum in the USA and I thought my life was at risk then I would be firing my gun like Dirty Harry even though I sprain my ankle trying to avoid stepping on ants on the sidewalk. You can't just say la la la and completely ignore where they are sending these people.

Working as a cop in the US is a choice. No one wakes and magically finds themselves in that situation. If you are a cop and are forced to work in a ghetto or exposed to one but would then be prepared to shoot campaigners willy nilly you shouldn't be a cop. That is the whole point of what I am saying. People don't have to escalate these situations to the point of death...

If you want to shoot it out with police because you know you are right then good luck with that. Don't be surprised if you end up in a coffin.

Americans, especially militia type extremist, see this as the only way to live free. And honestly the only reason we have the freedom we do is that people were prepared to do that and risk death.

We do have laws. They can't do anything they like, but we have a process to punish police who break the rules. The point isn't about just doing whatever police say, it is about de-escalating encounters with police so fewer people are killed. If you did nothing wrong then you have no reason to disobey the police.

What? What if a cop comes up to you and says there was a report that you stole your wallet full of cash so hand it over?

Don't say anything other than ask for a lawyer, even if it is one provided by the state, they are experienced with matters involving the police. Who are you, Arnold Schwarzenegger? Are you going to shoot it out with the cops because you think you are right? This is idiocy, I hope you don't have kids and are giving them this advice.

If I had kids in the US I'd advise them very differently to how I do here, seriously you got all that and the paragraph before it cos I pointed out people have shot cops in some circumstances, claimed self defence nd got away with it in the US. Sheesh....

I don't know. The dude had kids and he got himself killed in front of them. That is messed up.

He is still alive and handcuffed to a hospital bed, despite being paralysed from the waist down.

The second amendment was written when the firearm of choice was the musket that had to be filled with powder in an era where the nation wasn't allowed to mature without significant conflict. If the forefathers had a crystal ball and could see the shitshow that is going on and how paralysed the country is to amend the religious-like constitution now then I daresay it would have been written very differently.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

That could mean anything. And frankly firearms won't keep you safe against drones and tactical nukes.

But there is an argument that the second amendment was written for situations like those some black Americans find themselves in today.

Police in the USA are trained poorly, I am not sure if what they did was how they were trained or how experienced they were. The advice i would give to anyone, irrespective how innocent or guilty you are, is to stop when police tell you to stop, to do what they say and do not make sudden movements, do not talk back, you want to de-escalate every scenario you are with someone who is given a gun and permission to shoot people if they feel threatened.

Or you say "Take your best shot mother****er. I'm gonna die one way or another."

 

[ferball]

I love that if you type arseh*le with a capital A the swear filter lets it thru. Swear filter be thinking ... "Well if you feel that strongly about it I can let it slide."

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Haha.

 

[sbdan]

Haha.

Funny? He deserves it. I've no doubt his heart is in the right place, but he is not up to it. His strategy (which is essentially elimination) has not worked and will not work.

Dan's popular, but if he is serious about accountability, he should give someone else a go.

 

[Tas]

You love a good Fisking don't you Tas.

I think your heart is in the right place and that is important, I am with you more than you realise, but my point of view is the police are like a valve that seeks to restrict societal problems impacting the greater society, they can't fix problems though. Fixing problems comes from addressing causes, not treating symptoms.

We do have bad cops, we do have racist cops, we do want to weed them out. Not everything negative that occurs is due to racism though. There needs to be more nuance than just a black person was killed. If we replaced every police officer in America with black police, it wouldn't change the problem.

It's not. It's going to be dangerous and potentially life threatening. If you can't deal with that without panicking and shooting like that 17 year old kid up thread then you shouldn't bloody do it. Even that limited video of the Bake shooting shows a decision chain of epic stupidity.

I agree with you 100%. However, there are over 1m police officers in the USA, approximately a third are civilian in administration, roughly 700,000 officers with a badge and gun. The latest figures i can find from the Bureau of Justice is 2015 (report was compiled in 2018). The number of police contacts with US citizens were 53,469,300 in one year. On average that is approximately 76 interactions per police officer. I am sure that is disproportionately weighted towards police in high crime cities.

It is not like it is the wild west with police just shooting people at random, it takes a very specific encounter and a split second decision where the officer has to make an educated guess if someone is going to pose a threat to them. You would need a lot of training, expensive training, to prepared people to be better at making those types of decisions.

When someone is reading out a list of people, even if it was 100 people killed in a year, it would be such a tiny fraction of encounters even my calculator doesn't want to stick how many zeros are in front of the number.

Yeah, there are problems, especially like the Floyd case, is it a burning down city after city level of incompetence or maliciousness? it has left a lot of people who lived in poor places with even less than they had before.

There are poor communities in the US that the cops don't help. That is part of the problem.

Newly-released data shows City continues to deny equitable police services to South and West Side neighborhoods

African American and Latino neighborhoods -- largely on Chicago's West and South sides -- continue to suffer inequitable police services, according to new data obtained by the American Civil Liberties Union of Illinois through Freedom of Information Act requests to the City.

www.aclu-il.org

Who is the minority in Chicago? Whites are less than a third of the population there. I am guessing it means non-whites. That case you linked was appealed, do you know how it ended? I did a quick search and couldn't find anything on the resolution. I am guessing it is political, you can't discriminate based on race, but you definitely can discriminate based on wealth and resources.

If i put in a 000 call the same time as someone in Toorak I bet I know where the first police car is being sent to, but that is a bit simplistic, a lot depends on your proximity to stations and how well they are manned. I am sure those statistics are skewed, and by minority I am guessing they are referring to non-white slums. I am guessing the defense will be we have as many police attending poor areas as we do rich areas, they just commit a lot more crime and policing is a costly endeavour, who is going to pay to disproportionately allocate more resources to a section of the community that pays the least taxes?

I think it goes to show you can be progressive... but not that progressive.

The shit is going to get real. NYPD lost $1b from its budget in the wake of the BLM movement, riots starting breaking out in June, there were calls to tax the rich even more and the exodus of rich people leaving NY commenced.

There are economic realities, everything costs money. You have lunatics like AOC scaring the rich out of NY and you have Democratic governors who are left to face these economic realities of how to run their states.

The attitude that the streets need cleaning is half the problem. Police training is another. In the US it's inadequate, in Australia it can turn people into Arseholes who think everyone who isn't a victim of crime must be a criminal.

People who live in slums don't usually go out of their way to go to rich areas to commit crimes, they tend to prey on their own communities, every interaction is someone asking for help. Improving police training will only get you so far. As I said there are more than 50 million police interactions in a year and people raise a handful that go bad in a given year. How much money would it take to reduce that by a noticeable amount, or at all, how much would it cost to completely eliminate it, maybe you have to double police salaries again to attract better candidates. Now compare that to how you could improve communities with the same amount of resources. How many interactions could you eliminate? Communities need to be put on a path of self-improvement, not continual decay. You need to deal with the causes, not just focus on symptoms.

Yes it is. Repeated studies and analysis of figures show black communities suffer poor policing. Black people are more likely to be arrested for the same thing, more likely to be killed during that arrest and more likely to experience unreasonable policing or over policing compared to white people.

When I said there isn't a difference between black and white slums I meant poverty doesn't discriminate, it is a bad environment to be in, to grow up in, to develop your moral and social values in when you are surrounded by crime and social problems, the vast majority of it doesn't get reported or solved. Black communities have had the addition problems of being discriminated heavily in the past and have been let down by numerous governments who promised to address the causes of poverty. The standard of education is poor, unemployment is high, especially youth unemployment. People don't buy into the system so they rebel against it, anyone would regardless of race.

The crimes, the police interaction, these are symptoms you can't fix by just looking at the symptoms. It is like putting a band-aid on a severed artery and saying these band-aids suck, police do not have the tools to fix the problems.

You don't know that much about me or what I am capable of however in that situation I would have shot the guy immediately or tackled him and beat or held him into submission first. And i would be capable of it cos if I was enough of a campaigner to join the wallopers I'd train to wallop people every day. Using physical violence is a fundamental skill for a frontline cop.

People are all the same, it is just a matter of which buttons are pushed and which strings are pulled. You would eventually be the same as other cops if you were to be effective at your job. Where you work and how bad the neighbourhood is probably the most critical factor. I see cops in the CBD in Melbourne cracking jokes, getting on well with the public, these people do not have to deal with the shit other cops have to wade through on a daily basis. When a police officer dies in Australia the nation stands still and builds a monument for them, it is just another day in the USA. You are as disposable as the community you have been sent to police.

However your attitude to this is authoritarian and problematic. Police deal with their nations citizens. If policing your nation means you are entering a theatre of conflict are you a police officer or the member of an occupying force? You seem to have no appreciation of the limits of police power, why they exist and the dangers unfettered police powers pose to democracy.

I am not an authoritarian. I want to avoid unnecessary deaths. Look at all the people who have died by police, how many did what they were told and went peacefully? It would be close to zero regardless of race. If you shut up and do as you are told, you will likely live regardless how wrong the police are. If they are wrong and you are alive, you get to go home. File charges, sue them, whatever. Your own life must mean more to yourself than being right and having that futile struggle.

Are you one of these people that lets cops onto your property without a warrant? Even tho you have nothing to hide you are still undermining democracy.

I've had a very privileged life... since i was an adult. My interaction with police has been minor. I have let the police into my house, some knob once called the police and said I was growing weed in my backyard, had the police come over. I let them on my property, showed them my tomato plants which don't look anything like weed.

I don't really see the police as an enemy though, I've never done anything wrong to fear them and my community isn't rife with crime either so there isn't that agitation between civilians and police where I live.

Working as a cop in the US is a choice. No one wakes and magically finds themselves in that situation. If you are a cop and are forced to work in a ghetto or exposed to one but would then be prepared to shoot campaigners willy nilly you shouldn't be a cop. That is the whole point of what I am saying. People don't have to escalate these situations to the point of death...

It is an individual's choice, but it is something the society needs, it isn't optional. We are going to have someone perform that job. That person might have done 1000 interactions without incident, maybe it was their first significant one. It doesn't matter if it was an error in judgement, or someone panicked or something thought they saw something which didn't exist. If you expect police to not make ANY mistakes from more than 50 million interactions a year then is that expectation reasonable? We look at football free kicks which are dead obvious from a different angle, or slow motion replay and we wonder how umpires can get it so wrong.

Humans aren't perfect. Yet, despite the numerous examples of similar white deaths in that twitter link i posted earlier, people still think there is a racist conspiracy, like anyone is dumb enough to think you can blow a black person away and that isn't going to get maximum amount of scrutiny. People are either really dumb or their race hate defies logic.

We see what we want to see and are reluctant to look at things objectively. You didn't believe me when i showed you the evidence white people die a lot more frequently in custody than black people do here in Australia. If a black person dies in custody, it is investigated, how many white deaths are investigated? Even in the USA, it gets a lot more attention now, police are so hyper awaree of it that they are less likely to shoot black people.

Police more reluctant to shoot blacks than whites, study finds

In the most sweeping study of its kind, police were more reluctant to shoot black suspects than their white counterparts, contradicting the widely accepted “racist cop” narrative driving movements such as Black Lives Matter.

www.washingtontimes.com

People will refused to believe it though because it goes against the narrative.

Americans, especially militia type extremist, see this as the only way to live free. And honestly the only reason we have the freedom we do is that people were prepared to do that and risk death.

Americans are batshit crazy. I know some really nice Americans though, no police officers.

What? What if a cop comes up to you and says there was a report that you stole your wallet full of cash so hand it over?

I do not carry a lot of cash on me, but sure, they would need to arrest to confiscate my wallet. We would go to the station, fill out a report, record what they took and they would then have a long conversation with my lawyer. That is how the law works, it really isn't optional.

If I had kids in the US I'd advise them very differently to how I do here, seriously you got all that and the paragraph before it cos I pointed out people have shot cops in some circumstances, claimed self defence nd got away with it in the US. Sheesh....

Yeah, it seemed not very sane to me.

He is still alive and handcuffed to a hospital bed, despite being paralysed from the waist down.

Ahh, I assumed he died being shot so often that close.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

That could mean anything. And frankly firearms won't keep you safe against drones and tactical nukes.

But there is an argument that the second amendment was written for situations like those some black Americans find themselves in today.

The arms are more of a threat to people, even in the case of mutiny. If there was a CIA deep state that wanted to take over America by force, the first thing they would do is drop nukes on Texas, like America did with Hiroshima, then ask who doesn't want to surrender their arms.

You would never get those Texans to surrender their arms and they would be a pita, even with drones. It wouldn't make them safer. it makes them the first target.

Or you say "Take your best shot motherf***er. I'm gonna die one way or another."

Good luck with that.

 

[Ry009]

Good grief.

 

[DesertRoo]

People should listen to O'Shea Jackson, he speaks the truth..

 

[Ry009]

People should listen to O'Shea Jackson, he speaks the truth..

Shouldn't take an actor/musician to cut through the bullshit and do what the news can't do.

 

[ferball]

People who live in slums don't usually go out of their way to go to rich areas to commit crimes, they tend to prey on their own communities, every interaction is someone asking for help. Improving police training will only get you so far. As I said there are more than 50 million police interactions in a year and people raise a handful that go bad in a given year. How much money would it take to reduce that by a noticeable amount, or at all, how much would it cost to completely eliminate it, maybe you have to double police salaries again to attract better candidates. Now compare that to how you could improve communities with the same amount of resources. How many interactions could you eliminate? Communities need to be put on a path of self-improvement, not continual decay. You need to deal with the causes, not just focus on symptoms.

I'm not gonna reply to everything cos it will get boring. But what you've typed above is very similar to the defund the police movement.

When I said there isn't a difference between black and white slums I meant poverty doesn't discriminate, it is a bad environment to be in, to grow up in, to develop your moral and social values in when you are surrounded by crime and social problems, the vast majority of it doesn't get reported or solved. Black communities have had the addition problems of being discriminated heavily in the past and have been let down by numerous governments who promised to address the causes of poverty. The standard of education is poor, unemployment is high, especially youth unemployment. People don't buy into the system so they rebel against it, anyone would regardless of race.

The crack epidemic didn't specifically target white slums and neither did Bidens three strikes law.

I am not an authoritarian. I want to avoid unnecessary deaths. Look at all the people who have died by police, how many did what they were told and went peacefully? It would be close to zero regardless of race. If you shut up and do as you are told, you will likely live regardless how wrong the police are. If they are wrong and you are alive, you get to go home. File charges, sue them, whatever. Your own life must mean more to yourself than being right and having that futile struggle.

There is ww2 footage of Jewish people lining up in front of mass graves doing exactly that. Kids and all.

The arms are more of a threat to people, even in the case of mutiny. If there was a CIA deep state that wanted to take over America by force, the first thing they would do is drop nukes on Texas, like America did with Hiroshima, then ask who doesn't want to surrender their arms.

The CIA deep state already exists, took over decades ago and some people point to its successful takeover as an event that did happen in Texas, funnily enough. It's probably a simplistic view of what happened tho.

Good luck with that.

People gave this attitude at nearly all riots.

 

[DesertRoo]

Shouldn't take an actor/musician to cut through the bullshit and do what the news can't do.

It’s something the never trumpers are forgetting, there needs to be meaningful opposition.

Michael Moore had a few interesting things to say today..
All the warning signs are there for another four years.

Michael Moore warns Dems: Trump voters' enthusiasm is 'OFF THE CHARTS!'

Liberal filmmaker Michael Moore offered a dire warning to Democrats after the conclusion of the Republican Convention, telling the "Resistance" that the level of voter excitement for President Trump far exceeds that for Democratic nominee Joe Biden.

www.foxnews.com

 

[DesertRoo]

I don't really know krakouers, because I'm Canadian!

But for Canadian speeches, this young girl deserves kudos for getting up there in front of all those people and talking about the plight of missing and murdered Indigenous women in Canada:




Also, Mumilaaq (Trina) Qaqqaq, one of Canada's youngest MP's - representative for Nunavut, the northernmost Territory - has been an inspiration to watch over the last couple of years. She had zero political experience going in to it, but she's fast become one of the clearest voices here for northern Indigenous peoples.





There's more famous Canadian orators, of course, but these are 2 you won't have already heard, and plus, they make me feel hopeful for the future.


What I love most about MLK's "I Have a Dream" speech is the part about "meeting physical force with soul force". We're seeing it right now.

I missed this, the krakouers were brothers who played for North. Gifted players, who were basically attacked every game because of the colour of their skin.. the boys never took a backwards step. Absolute champions of the game and club.

 

[Groucho]

I think your heart is in the right place and that is important, I am with you more than you realise, but my point of view is the police are like a valve that seeks to restrict societal problems impacting the greater society, they can't fix problems though. Fixing problems comes from addressing causes, not treating symptoms.

We do have bad cops, we do have racist cops, we do want to weed them out. Not everything negative that occurs is due to racism though. There needs to be more nuance than just a black person was killed. If we replaced every police officer in America with black police, it wouldn't change the problem.



I agree with you 100%. However, there are over 1m police officers in the USA, approximately a third are civilian in administration, roughly 700,000 officers with a badge and gun. The latest figures i can find from the Bureau of Justice is 2015 (report was compiled in 2018). The number of police contacts with US citizens were 53,469,300 in one year. On average that is approximately 76 interactions per police officer. I am sure that is disproportionately weighted towards police in high crime cities.

It is not like it is the wild west with police just shooting people at random, it takes a very specific encounter and a split second decision where the officer has to make an educated guess if someone is going to pose a threat to them. You would need a lot of training, expensive training, to prepared people to be better at making those types of decisions.

When someone is reading out a list of people, even if it was 100 people killed in a year, it would be such a tiny fraction of encounters even my calculator doesn't want to stick how many zeros are in front of the number.

Yeah, there are problems, especially like the Floyd case, is it a burning down city after city level of incompetence or maliciousness? it has left a lot of people who lived in poor places with even less than they had before.



Who is the minority in Chicago? Whites are less than a third of the population there. I am guessing it means non-whites. That case you linked was appealed, do you know how it ended? I did a quick search and couldn't find anything on the resolution. I am guessing it is political, you can't discriminate based on race, but you definitely can discriminate based on wealth and resources.

If i put in a 000 call the same time as someone in Toorak I bet I know where the first police car is being sent to, but that is a bit simplistic, a lot depends on your proximity to stations and how well they are manned. I am sure those statistics are skewed, and by minority I am guessing they are referring to non-white slums. I am guessing the defense will be we have as many police attending poor areas as we do rich areas, they just commit a lot more crime and policing is a costly endeavour, who is going to pay to disproportionately allocate more resources to a section of the community that pays the least taxes?

I think it goes to show you can be progressive... but not that progressive.

The sh*t is going to get real. NYPD lost $1b from its budget in the wake of the BLM movement, riots starting breaking out in June, there were calls to tax the rich even more and the exodus of rich people leaving NY commenced.

There are economic realities, everything costs money. You have lunatics like AOC scaring the rich out of NY and you have Democratic governors who are left to face these economic realities of how to run their states.





People who live in slums don't usually go out of their way to go to rich areas to commit crimes, they tend to prey on their own communities, every interaction is someone asking for help. Improving police training will only get you so far. As I said there are more than 50 million police interactions in a year and people raise a handful that go bad in a given year. How much money would it take to reduce that by a noticeable amount, or at all, how much would it cost to completely eliminate it, maybe you have to double police salaries again to attract better candidates. Now compare that to how you could improve communities with the same amount of resources. How many interactions could you eliminate? Communities need to be put on a path of self-improvement, not continual decay. You need to deal with the causes, not just focus on symptoms.



When I said there isn't a difference between black and white slums I meant poverty doesn't discriminate, it is a bad environment to be in, to grow up in, to develop your moral and social values in when you are surrounded by crime and social problems, the vast majority of it doesn't get reported or solved. Black communities have had the addition problems of being discriminated heavily in the past and have been let down by numerous governments who promised to address the causes of poverty. The standard of education is poor, unemployment is high, especially youth unemployment. People don't buy into the system so they rebel against it, anyone would regardless of race.

The crimes, the police interaction, these are symptoms you can't fix by just looking at the symptoms. It is like putting a band-aid on a severed artery and saying these band-aids suck, police do not have the tools to fix the problems.



People are all the same, it is just a matter of which buttons are pushed and which strings are pulled. You would eventually be the same as other cops if you were to be effective at your job. Where you work and how bad the neighbourhood is probably the most critical factor. I see cops in the CBD in Melbourne cracking jokes, getting on well with the public, these people do not have to deal with the sh*t other cops have to wade through on a daily basis. When a police officer dies in Australia the nation stands still and builds a monument for them, it is just another day in the USA. You are as disposable as the community you have been sent to police.



I am not an authoritarian. I want to avoid unnecessary deaths. Look at all the people who have died by police, how many did what they were told and went peacefully? It would be close to zero regardless of race. If you shut up and do as you are told, you will likely live regardless how wrong the police are. If they are wrong and you are alive, you get to go home. File charges, sue them, whatever. Your own life must mean more to yourself than being right and having that futile struggle.



I've had a very privileged life... since i was an adult. My interaction with police has been minor. I have let the police into my house, some knob once called the police and said I was growing weed in my backyard, had the police come over. I let them on my property, showed them my tomato plants which don't look anything like weed.

I don't really see the police as an enemy though, I've never done anything wrong to fear them and my community isn't rife with crime either so there isn't that agitation between civilians and police where I live.



It is an individual's choice, but it is something the society needs, it isn't optional. We are going to have someone perform that job. That person might have done 1000 interactions without incident, maybe it was their first significant one. It doesn't matter if it was an error in judgement, or someone panicked or something thought they saw something which didn't exist. If you expect police to not make ANY mistakes from more than 50 million interactions a year then is that expectation reasonable? We look at football free kicks which are dead obvious from a different angle, or slow motion replay and we wonder how umpires can get it so wrong.

Humans aren't perfect. Yet, despite the numerous examples of similar white deaths in that twitter link i posted earlier, people still think there is a racist conspiracy, like anyone is dumb enough to think you can blow a black person away and that isn't going to get maximum amount of scrutiny. People are either really dumb or their race hate defies logic.

We see what we want to see and are reluctant to look at things objectively. You didn't believe me when i showed you the evidence white people die a lot more frequently in custody than black people do here in Australia. If a black person dies in custody, it is investigated, how many white deaths are investigated? Even in the USA, it gets a lot more attention now, police are so hyper awaree of it that they are less likely to shoot black people.

Police more reluctant to shoot blacks than whites, study finds

In the most sweeping study of its kind, police were more reluctant to shoot black suspects than their white counterparts, contradicting the widely accepted “racist cop” narrative driving movements such as Black Lives Matter.

www.washingtontimes.com

People will refused to believe it though because it goes against the narrative.



Americans are batshit crazy. I know some really nice Americans though, no police officers.



I do not carry a lot of cash on me, but sure, they would need to arrest to confiscate my wallet. We would go to the station, fill out a report, record what they took and they would then have a long conversation with my lawyer. That is how the law works, it really isn't optional.



Yeah, it seemed not very sane to me.



Ahh, I assumed he died being shot so often that close.



The arms are more of a threat to people, even in the case of mutiny. If there was a CIA deep state that wanted to take over America by force, the first thing they would do is drop nukes on Texas, like America did with Hiroshima, then ask who doesn't want to surrender their arms.

You would never get those Texans to surrender their arms and they would be a pita, even with drones. It wouldn't make them safer. it makes them the first target.



Good luck with that.

Lol