Play Nice Random Chat Thread IV

[koshari]

So that would be a "no".

lets just say it wouldn't be considered brewed under the Reinheitsgebot

 

[ferball]

hahaha, they look like the police force.. they all seem to March together on those things.

also governments over there tend to balance power, by having a militant police force, in case an army general attempts to overthrow the ruling party.
They’re certainly not stupid.

Till that army general is Sisi and he tells everyone he'll give them free elections just like they want, then that he'll remove the MB just like they want and hey presto everything is back to the 2010 status quo.

 

[DesertRoo]

Till that army general is Sisi and he tells everyone he'll give them free elections just like they want, then that he'll remove the MB just like they want and hey presto everything is back to the 2010 status quo.

Nepotism is a massive problem, Morsi came basically after Mubarak, who’s family and friends were in power for a generation..
he narrowly won the election against a Mubarak aide, then proceeded to remove all key posts and replaced with brotherhood members. With the speed it happened, it was always going to piss off half of the population.

What transpired was like clockwork, imams preaching on Friday, congregation of angry young men march to Tahrir square and a descent to violence.

with people like Peter Greste cheering from the sidelines.

 

[Sopwiths North]

I agree, there's no definitive right or wrong answer, but I would argue most normal people, love or hate Trump, can see he's not a fascist. There are plenty of things wrong with him, and I've been clear I can't stand him, but he's not a fascist. He is further right than most traditional Republican candidates, in much the same way Sanders and Warren were further left than normal, but that doesn't automatically make him a fascist. I think that's why the Democrats have run with Biden - he's closer to centre-left, and they think they can get more votes from appearing to be more moderate. I'm not sure that is a winning strategy - I think politics (particularly American politics) is a game of political extremes, and like him or loathe him, I'm expecting to see Trump win again.

I think any normal person can see Andrews is neither a fascist nor a dictator, nor is he running a fascist state. I think "Dictator Dan" is one of those catchy insulting names people like to throw out because they're frustrated, in much the same way as people started calling Morrison "Scotty From Marketing" when they were frustrated about the bushfires, and Abbott "The Mad Monk" when they were frustrated about, well, everything.

I would attribute 100% scorn to anyone likening Andrews to Hitler, in exactly the same way I attribute 100% scorn to the way Funky has likened Trump to Hitler countless times in this thread. I don't know whether Funky thinks he's neutral, or whether he'd admit he's quite far left, but to anyone looking at things impartially, it's clear that he mainly despises Trump because of his far left political leanings, not for the reasons many more "centre" people hate Trump - eg LuvtheKangs seems to be to be quite a "centre" type poster that despises Trump with a passion.

Trump doesn't posses enough mental acumen to be truly cognizantly capable of being a fascist, but he is a narcissist and nothing is more important to him than being the one in the spotlight, above everyone else. The trouble with this though, is that he plays heavily to his audience in order to keep himself in this place of self-aggrandization - and a very real and rusted-on part of his fan base is white supremacists.

Just three weeks ago we saw him signal The Proud Boys during a freaking Presidential debate of all things - he told them to "Stand down, and stand by." And just 9 days after that, a dozen right wing extremists, including members of a far right militia group called The Wolverine Watchmen (who makes up these names?) were arrested and charged with a plot to kidnap the Governor of Michigan, put her on some sort of 'trial", and then execute her. Why? They disagreed with her Covid lock down strategies. Strategies that didn't align with the lies and rhetoric Trump spews about this virus on a daily basis.

Point being, it's a slippery slope, this fascism thing. And while I agree with you, I would never ever compare anyone to Hitler as an individual, looking at the elements that surrounded and led to his rise to power might be a way to think about what is happening in the US right now, and the possibility of where things can lead. Although I don't believe for a second that Trump will be re-elected. He's done. He's out. The question is, will he actually leave. Haha. Stay tuned I guess.

As far as the Dictator Dan stuff goes, I'm really not in a position here in Canada to weigh in on Victorian politics, but I will say that reading all the name-calling in the Covid thread isn't great. I feel the same way whenever someone refers to a certain demographic of women as "Karens". People do it here too, and it always makes me cringe. I dunno, maybe I'm being overly sensitive, but it just feels bleagh. Like we're all back in high school or something.

And especially right now, when the last thing we need is more divisiveness and name calling going around. I mean, Trump's done enough of that for everyone. We don't need to channel any more Trump right now. We just need to take care of each other.

 

[andana]

Shouldn't America be great again by now? It's been four years.

You can't use that slogan on your reelection campaign. It's just asking for someone to ask what you've been doing during your first term.

"Murdering Epstein and playing golf. Now piss off!"

You know, the new campaign, it’s going to be ‘Keep America Great,’ right?” Trump added, according to data compiled by Factba.se. “I don’t think — as much as I love ‘Make America Great Again,’ I don’t know that we can carry it forward, because people will say, ‘Well, what did we do for the last four years?’

By March 2019, Trump was using the expression in a non speculative way. He’d used it a couple of times before that, but only through retweets or when discussing what his new slogan might be. Then, on March 13, he made it formal.

He kept returning to MAGA even as he was promoting KAG. In only one month, July 2019, did he use “keep America great” or “KAG” more than “make America great again” or MAGA. In every other month, as he was extolling the need to preserve America’s greatness he was more frequently insisting on the need to make it great.

Less than a year after that seminal March 13 day, Trump quietly phased out the KAG slogan. His last use of the phrase in reference to America’s existent greatness came on March 3 of this year.

At some point on March 3 or early on March 4, then, America became ungreat. This, of course, was just as the coronavirus pandemic was starting to escalate exponentially and a few days after the first recorded U.S. death from covid-19, the disease caused by the virus.

Renewed greatness remains elusive.

 

[Joycey]

Just three weeks ago we saw him signal The Proud Boys during a freaking Presidential debate of all things - he told them to "Stand down, and stand by." And just 9 days after that, a dozen right wing extremists, including members of a far right militia group called The Wolverine Watchmen (who makes up these names?) were arrested and charged with a plot to kidnap the Governor of Michigan, put her on some sort of 'trial", and then execute her. Why? They disagreed with her Covid lock down strategies. Strategies that didn't align with the lies and rhetoric Trump spews about this virus on a daily basis.

The Wolverine Watchmen had been planning all of that since the beginning of the year (according to the FBI).

The Wolverine Watchmen hate the police and all government (including Trump). Which is why they were protesting with BLM saying "Kill all cops"

Straight from the horses mouth:

 

[Mr_Nyah]

Trump doesn't posses enough mental acumen to be truly cognizantly capable of being a fascist, but he is a narcissist and nothing is more important to him than being the one in the spotlight, above everyone else. The trouble with this though, is that he plays heavily to his audience in order to keep himself in this place of self-aggrandization - and a very real and rusted-on part of his fan base is white supremacists.

Just three weeks ago we saw him signal The Proud Boys during a freaking Presidential debate of all things - he told them to "Stand down, and stand by." And just 9 days after that, a dozen right wing extremists, including members of a far right militia group called The Wolverine Watchmen (who makes up these names?) were arrested and charged with a plot to kidnap the Governor of Michigan, put her on some sort of 'trial", and then execute her. Why? They disagreed with her Covid lock down strategies. Strategies that didn't align with the lies and rhetoric Trump spews about this virus on a daily basis.

Point being, it's a slippery slope, this fascism thing. And while I agree with you, I would never ever compare anyone to Hitler as an individual, looking at the elements that surrounded and led to his rise to power might be a way to think about what is happening in the US right now, and the possibility of where things can lead. Although I don't believe for a second that Trump will be re-elected. He's done. He's out. The question is, will he actually leave. Haha. Stay tuned I guess.

As far as the Dictator Dan stuff goes, I'm really not in a position here in Canada to weigh in on Victorian politics, but I will say that reading all the name-calling in the Covid thread isn't great. I feel the same way whenever someone refers to a certain demographic of women as "Karens". People do it here too, and it always makes me cringe. I dunno, maybe I'm being overly sensitive, but it just feels bleagh. Like we're all back in high school or something.

And especially right now, when the last thing we need is more divisiveness and name calling going around. I mean, Trump's done enough of that for everyone. We don't need to channel any more Trump right now. We just need to take care of each other.

I agree with all the bad things you’ve said about Trump. I think it’s clear, and I don’t think you’re accusing me otherwise, but I can’t stand Trump and think the sooner he’s out of power the better.

That being said, the (admittedly) very little I’ve read of that Michigan case included that some of the scumbags planning it had actually stated how much they hated Trump. Is that right? I think you’ve got to be careful making the link between scumbag agrees with Trump, so scumbag’s bad actions should be attributed to Trump.

As for the white supremacists supporting Trump, I’m sure a bunch of them do. But most politicians have a bunch of extreme fringe supporters. I take with a grain of salt media saying Trump hasn’t condemned white supremacists , because I’ve seen him do it a bunch of times. As I’ve previously posted, there are plenty of legitimate reasons to criticise Trump, but many people (like Funky, that’s why I initially pressed him on calling Trump a fascist) insist on making stuff up. Just focus on the plethora of real stuff!

I agree 100% with your sentiments on political and indeed social discourse. As a society we are treating each other worse and worse when we disagree. The internet makes things even worse - just yesterday I got sucked into a Bigfooty disagreement where I said things in a way that I regretted. I know everyone is on edge, but we would all be better served taking a step back and treating each other with a little more respect, even when we disagree.

 

[ferball]

Trump doesn't posses enough mental acumen to be truly cognizantly capable of being a fascist, but he is a narcissist and nothing is more important to him than being the one in the spotlight, above everyone else. The trouble with this though, is that he plays heavily to his audience in order to keep himself in this place of self-aggrandization - and a very real and rusted-on part of his fan base is white supremacists.

Just three weeks ago we saw him signal The Proud Boys during a freaking Presidential debate of all things - he told them to "Stand down, and stand by." And just 9 days after that, a dozen right wing extremists, including members of a far right militia group called The Wolverine Watchmen (who makes up these names?) were arrested and charged with a plot to kidnap the Governor of Michigan, put her on some sort of 'trial", and then execute her. Why? They disagreed with her Covid lock down strategies. Strategies that didn't align with the lies and rhetoric Trump spews about this virus on a daily basis.

Point being, it's a slippery slope, this fascism thing. And while I agree with you, I would never ever compare anyone to Hitler as an individual, looking at the elements that surrounded and led to his rise to power might be a way to think about what is happening in the US right now, and the possibility of where things can lead. Although I don't believe for a second that Trump will be re-elected. He's done. He's out. The question is, will he actually leave. Haha. Stay tuned I guess.

As far as the Dictator Dan stuff goes, I'm really not in a position here in Canada to weigh in on Victorian politics, but I will say that reading all the name-calling in the Covid thread isn't great. I feel the same way whenever someone refers to a certain demographic of women as "Karens". People do it here too, and it always makes me cringe. I dunno, maybe I'm being overly sensitive, but it just feels bleagh. Like we're all back in high school or something.

And especially right now, when the last thing we need is more divisiveness and name calling going around. I mean, Trump's done enough of that for everyone. We don't need to channel any more Trump right now. We just need to take care of each other.

I thought the Karen's thing started after that racist woman in Mildura, called Karen.



But I'm usually years behind on these things.

 

[ferball]

Nepotism is a massive problem, Morsi came basically after Mubarak, who’s family and friends were in power for a generation..
he narrowly won the election against a Mubarak aide, then proceeded to remove all key posts and replaced with brotherhood members. With the speed it happened, it was always going to piss off half of the population.

What transpired was like clockwork, imams preaching on Friday, congregation of angry young men march to Tahrir square and a descent to violence.

with people like Peter Greste cheering from the sidelines.

Mubarak spent decades eliminating all opposition that wasn't the MB, especially secular left wing/Union movements. Specifically so when people got jack of him their only option would be those arseholes.

 

[Joycey]

As for the white supremacists supporting Trump, I’m sure a bunch of them do. But most politicians have a bunch of extreme fringe supporters. I take with a grain of salt media saying Trump hasn’t condemned white supremacists , because I’ve seen him do it a bunch of times. As I’ve previously posted, there are plenty of legitimate reasons to criticise Trump, but many people (like Funky, that’s why I initially pressed him on calling Trump a fascist) insist on making stuff up. Just focus on the plethora of real stuff!

I agree with this. There is enough out there already. There is no need to add fuel to the fire and create mixed messages.

It's easy for people to add in the white supremacy stuff or say 'The Proud Boys' are white supremacists. The Proud Boys are lead by a Cuban and call themselves "Western chauvinist". Has that group even done anything other then get in fights with ANTIFA in Portland and a few other things here and there? Largely irrelevant I would have thought.

Richard Spencer endorsed Biden and Trump cops a lot of flack from the far right fringes because his daughter is married and has a kid to a jewish man. That's not to mention those that feel like he's a zionist.

People should attack points on merit without adding blanket statements all the time. The undermines their stance.

 

[ferball]

I agree with all the bad things you’ve said about Trump. I think it’s clear, and I don’t think you’re accusing me otherwise, but I can’t stand Trump and think the sooner he’s out of power the better.

That being said, the (admittedly) very little I’ve read of that Michigan case included that some of the scumbags planning it had actually stated how much they hated Trump. Is that right? I think you’ve got to be careful making the link between scumbag agrees with Trump, so scumbag’s bad actions should be attributed to Trump.

As for the white supremacists supporting Trump, I’m sure a bunch of them do. But most politicians have a bunch of extreme fringe supporters. I take with a grain of salt media saying Trump hasn’t condemned white supremacists , because I’ve seen him do it a bunch of times. As I’ve previously posted, there are plenty of legitimate reasons to criticise Trump, but many people (like Funky, that’s why I initially pressed him on calling Trump a fascist) insist on making stuff up. Just focus on the plethora of real stuff!

I agree 100% with your sentiments on political and indeed social discourse. As a society we are treating each other worse and worse when we disagree. The internet makes things even worse - just yesterday I got sucked into a Bigfooty disagreement where I said things in a way that I regretted. I know everyone is on edge, but we would all be better served taking a step back and treating each other with a little more respect, even when we disagree.

I know someone who calls Trump a kayfabe fascist.

I think that's the best description I've heard of him.

He trolls his political enemies by pretending to be a fascist but he's only in it for the money (and the young women.)

I reckon kayfabe is a good word for politics actually. Not just wrestling.

 

[Mr_Nyah]

I know someone who calls Trump a kayfabe fascist.

I think that's the best description I've heard of him.

He trolls his political enemies by pretending to be a fascist but he's only in it for the money (and the young women.)

I reckon kayfabe is a good word for politics actually. Not just wrestling.

Never heard of kayfabe! Interesting reading. It does a good job at explaining some of the charade behind Trump. I’ve long felt there is plenty of “putting it on” behind his facade.

 

[DesertRoo]

Mubarak spent decades eliminating all opposition that wasn't the MB, especially secular left wing/Union movements. Specifically so when people got jack of him their only option would be those arseholes.

Yep, the six day war was to eliminate nasserism and the dictators have been supported ever since to make the sure there’s not a united arab ideology.

 

[DesertRoo]

I agree with this. There is enough out there already. There is no need to add fuel to the fire and create mixed messages.

It's easy for people to add in the white supremacy stuff or say 'The Proud Boys' are white supremacists. The Proud Boys are lead by a Cuban and call themselves "Western chauvinist". Has that group even done anything other then get in fights with ANTIFA in Portland and a few other things here and there? Largely irrelevant I would have thought.

Richard Spencer endorsed Biden and Trump cops a lot of flack from the far right fringes because his daughter is married and has a kid to a jewish man. That's not to mention those that feel like he's a zionist.

People should attack points on merit without adding blanket statements all the time. The undermines their stance.

If you read any of historian Anton Chaitkin work, New York’s B'nai B'rith and the KkK are intrinsically linked by a guy called Simon Wolf.

damn the brits caused some shit..

 

[ferball]

Yep, the six day war was to eliminate nasserism and the dictators have been supported ever since to make the sure there’s not a united arab ideology.

That is one reason I never see what happened in Egypt or Tunisia as similar to what happened afterward during the Arab Springtm.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Is there anyone here who disagrees that both the republicans & democrats are pathetic choices?

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Is there anyone here who disagrees that both the republicans & democrats are pathetic choices?

Why do you consistently repeat republican internet characters if you truly believe this?

 

[krakouers]

Was always a Coopers man myself but was anyone else surprised West End is closing?

 

[ferball]

Was always a Coopers man myself but was anyone else surprised West End is closing?

I know of a sporting team that once won a boot load of that stuff and twelve months later only two slabs were gone.

 

[DesertRoo]

Why do you consistently repeat republican internet characters if you truly believe this?

There’s certainly some entertaining mental gymnastics, when you’ve got candidate saying ‘you’re not black unless you vote me’ when his son is the epitome of white privilege...

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

There’s certainly some entertaining mental gymnastics, when you’ve got candidate saying ‘you’re not black unless you vote me’ when his son is the epitome of white privilege...

Huh? Not what Im talking about.

 

[krakouers]

I know of a sporting team that once won a boot load of that stuff and twelve months later only two slabs were gone.

Still surprised it’s shutting down, but yeah, could easily enough see that situation

 

[DesertRoo]

Huh? Not what Im talking about.

Oh the parties themselves?

 

[DesertRoo]

That is one reason I never see what happened in Egypt or Tunisia as similar to what happened afterward during the Arab Springtm.

Shifting from classic realpolitik strategist like Kissinger to beyond rationalism bolton.

 

[The Other Dean]

Cheers for the respectful response, Mr N.

Seems to have sparked some worthy discussion, too.

(Let's see what I can do to turn that around.)

I agree, there's no definitive right or wrong answer, but I would argue most normal people, love or hate Trump, can see he's not a fascist. There are plenty of things wrong with him, and I've been clear I can't stand him, but he's not a fascist. He is further right than most traditional Republican candidates, in much the same way Sanders and Warren were further left than normal, but that doesn't automatically make him a fascist.

Sure.

I did want to avoid getting bogged down in crapping on about where I personally stand on the 'Is Trump a fascist?' question because it's an involved and nuanced topic and I'll end up being here forever. In short, I personally wouldn't label Trump as a fascist, but at the same time I don't find Funky's call to be a massive leap. The attacks on the free press, undermining democratically-elected State leaders, legitimising (at best)/inciting (at worst) right-wing violence, and invalidating democratic electoral processes (via vague, fabricated accusations of opponent fraud) are the kinds of things that people traditionally associate with fascism. Tear-gassing peaceful protesters to enable a photo op is a straight up despot move. There are numerous other examples. So yeah, it's not as if we're orbiting in a different stratosphere here. While we may argue over to what degree, there is most certainly an element of 'walks like a duck, quacks like a duck' at play. Thankfully, 'the system' provides some checks and balances to mitigate these things. As Sopwiths said, slippery slope and all that.

Anyway, again, no right and wrong per se. I was really just interested in getting a clearer picture on why you thought Funky's views on the subject were worthy of derision.

I think that's why the Democrats have run with Biden - he's closer to centre-left, and they think they can get more votes from appearing to be more moderate. I'm not sure that is a winning strategy - I think politics (particularly American politics) is a game of political extremes, and like him or loathe him, I'm expecting to see Trump win again.

Respectfully, I disagree with that one. Even factoring in Electoral College shenanigans, I'm of the opinion that Biden will get up.

Yes, Ol' Joe is a douchebag and the Dems are a bunch of lame-duck establishment hacks, etc, etc. Hard for me to get all warm and fuzzy about an entity that for the most part sits further right than the LNP. But of course none of that is of any huge importance with regards to this particular election. The biggest thing that Biden has going for him is that he's not Trump. And fortunately for Joe, I think that'll be enough this time around.

On top of a long grocery list of failings, Trump has overseen arguably the worst covid response on the planet, resulting in over 200,000 deaths, all merrily fueled by his own wildly dangerous misinformation and anti-science rhetoric. From "it's just a flu", to his head-scratching bleach comments, to HCQ ("the game changer!"), to Regeneron ("everyone's getting it for free!"), to second-guessing and insulting Fauci and assorted medical experts, to politicising mask wearing and turning it into some weird alpha male insult thing.....




Fingers crossed, the revelations that came out of the Woodward interviews will be the final nail in his coffin of willful negligence.

If the American people manage to collectively cut him a pass on the Covid stuff alone, then they're beyond all redemption.

Although nothing would really surprise me at this point. I'm still trying to get my head around the fact that Trump is basically running on a campaign of 'Only Trump can save you from Trump's America'. That's some surreal shit right there. Inception meets the Ministry Of Truth.

I think any normal person can see Andrews is neither a fascist nor a dictator, nor is he running a fascist state. I think "Dictator Dan" is one of those catchy insulting names people like to throw out because they're frustrated, in much the same way as people started calling Morrison "Scotty From Marketing" when they were frustrated about the bushfires, and Abbott "The Mad Monk" when they were frustrated about, well, everything.

I would attribute 100% scorn to anyone likening Andrews to Hitler, in exactly the same way I attribute 100% scorn to the way Funky has likened Trump to Hitler countless times in this thread. I don't know whether Funky thinks he's neutral, or whether he'd admit he's quite far left, but to anyone looking at things impartially, it's clear that he mainly despises Trump because of his far left political leanings, not for the reasons many more "centre" people hate Trump - eg LuvtheKangs seems to be to be quite a "centre" type poster that despises Trump with a passion.

I have to confess, Mr N, this is where the logic gets a bit muddy for me. Particularly around where lines are drawn between invoking the name of actual fascists, simply calling someone a fascist, and this wild card of "catchy insulting names".

And most importantly, where does all that leave one of my favourite Trump nicknames -

'The Mango Mussolini'

(Also rate 'Cheeto Jesus'.)

Anyways, again, cheers for the respectful reply.