Play Nice Random Chat Thread V

[giantroo]

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Have been building up to this withdrawal for a while, even with brief troop surges under Obama and Trump. There is only a few thousand left, so more of a symbolic, and final, withdrawal.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

I’m not sure if that’s a good or bad thing.

Mostly a symbolic (good?) thing as it removes one source of ongoing tension. The Taliban (a lot are effectively narco-warlords) are in control of most of the countryside, the government is corrupt and inefficient, but controls most urban centers, and it is little better than a failed state. It will probably resort to civil war within a few years, or what Iraq is now, heavily destabilised and susceptible to sectarian violence.

 

[ferball]

I can’t remember the name of the book, but it’s about the theory that the whole Santa and the flying reindeer comes from when people housed to eat those read and white spotted mushrooms and trip balls. It’s laid out perfectly in the book. Reindeers to this day still eat those mushrooms so they can trip out. When the practice was banned the Sharmans (elves) would sneak into peoples huts via their chimney to give them the mushrooms.

Obviously it’s more nuanced then it’s just a pagan ritual but it is historically accurate that when the Romans went Christian they co-opted a lot of the pagan rituals into Christianity to make it a smother transition.

Its also why so many European churches are built on particular sacred hill sites.

Its not as simple as "they just took it over" either.

Was the book called The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross by John Allegro.

 

[ferball]

Wasn't Santa invented by Coca Cola?

 

[Val Keating]

Wasn't Santa invented by Coca Cola?

No idea.

 

[ferball]

Mostly a symbolic (good?) thing as it removes one source of ongoing tension. The Taliban (a lot are effectively narco-warlords) are in control of most of the countryside, the government is corrupt and inefficient, but controls most urban centers, and it is little better than a failed state. It will probably resort to civil war within a few years, or what Iraq is now, heavily destabilised and susceptible to sectarian violence.

The Taliban actually did a bit to stop the heroin trade in the late 90s.

Lots of heroin that used to come out of Afghanistan stopped during the late 90s and it even had an effect on Australia's heroin use - less came here as a result of increasing demand elsewhere.

By late 2002 there was more flowing into the country again. Cynical people at the time wondered why the US happened to invade countries that were instrumental in heroin production every 20 years or so.

 

[ferball]

No idea.

What is it about religions co opting pagan symbols:

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[Themanbun]

Its also why so many European churches are built on particular sacred hill sites.

Its not as simple as "they just took it over" either.

Was the book called The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross by John Allegro.

Yeah, some were smashed, some were renovated. The sites themselves were known to locals (which made it easier), some were just straight up repurposed, but they also contained valuable building materials: marble, chiseled stone and milled wood, which is much easier to reconfigure on site than to transport. It's an interesting period of history.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

The Taliban actually did a bit to stop the heroin trade in the late 90s.

Lots of heroin that used to come out of Afghanistan stopped during the late 90s and it even had an effect on Australia's heroin use - less came here as a result of increasing demand elsewhere.

By late 2002 there was more flowing into the country again. Cynical people at the time wondered why the US happened to invade countries that were instrumental in heroin production every 20 years or so.

Wartime (fiscal) and weapon demands changed that attitude. Roughly 60% of its funding comes from the narcotics trade in 2019.

 

[ferball]

Wartime (fiscal) and weapon demands changed that attitude. Roughly 60% of its funding comes from the narcotics trade in 2019.

Yeah i doubt the Taliban is what it was 25 years ago.

 

[Del191229]

 

[Del191229]

The Taliban actually did a bit to stop the heroin trade in the late 90s.

Lots of heroin that used to come out of Afghanistan stopped during the late 90s and it even had an effect on Australia's heroin use - less came here as a result of increasing demand elsewhere.

By late 2002 there was more flowing into the country again. Cynical people at the time wondered why the US happened to invade countries that were instrumental in heroin production every 20 years or so.

Bullshit. They cut back production one year to drive prices back up of the floor overproduction had created and test the waters re international recognition.

And none of that came to Australia. All goes west to Europe. The brown. Run by well established Turkish/Kurdish networks.

Australia's comes from the Golden Triangle, is white and is run by well established Triad networks.

 

[Val Keating]

Wartime (fiscal) and weapon demands changed that attitude. Roughly 60% of its funding comes from the narcotics trade in 2019.

There’s that famous video of US military guarding poppy fields

 

[Val Keating]

This always reminds me of a conversation I had with my great aunt about her travelling the world way back in the day. I asked her what her favourite place was, she winked at me and said Afghanistan. She said it was amazing, they’d all lounge around and ‘relax’ she knew that I knew what she meant but none of my aunts that put her up on a pedestal did....

Because the kicker is that when she came back she became a nun .

It was a cool moment because they all thought she was so pure

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

There’s that famous video of US military guarding poppy fields

Yea, but that was their warlords ‘friendly’ to the USA, doesn’t count...

 

[Val Keating]

And it’s also a sad reminder what imperialism has done to the area. It’ll never recover.

 

[ferball]

Bullshit. They cut back production one year to drive prices back up of the floor overproduction had created and test the waters re international recognition.

And none of that came to Australia. All goes west to Europe. The brown. Run by well established Turkish/Kurdish networks.

Australia's comes from the Golden Triangle, is white and is run by well established Triad networks.

Its not bullshit.

Asian heroin was in greater demand in Europe, worth more money and less came here as a result. It was harder to get because we don't have a big enough market to support the prices being asked for it.

Don't ask me how I know that but I do know it and it wasn't because I was trying to import it.

 

[ferball]

This always reminds me of a conversation I had with my great aunt about her travelling the world way back in the day. I asked her what her favourite place was, she winked at me and said Afghanistan. She said it was amazing, they’d all lounge around and ‘relax’ she knew that I knew what she meant but none of my aunts that put her up on a pedestal did....

Because the kicker is that when she came back she became a nun .

It was a cool moment because they all thought she was so pure

I had a friend who was a taxi driver in W. Germany in the 80s and knew people (who were soldiers) in the East. They used to bring back Afghani hash, swap it for western goods and he'd sell it. Afghanistan is also the home to one of the major strains of weed and had a huge influence on the breeding of pot over the last 50 years.

Lots of people went thru Afghanistan before the Russians invaded. It was a major part of the "hippie trail". I know a few old hippies around here who spent time there. Its really sad what has happened there. There are photos online of students at uni in Kabul in the 70s. They look like uni students anywhere in the west.

 

[Val Keating]

I had a friend who was a taxi driver in W. Germany in the 80s and knew people (who were soldiers) in the East. They used to bring back Afghani hash, swap it for western goods and he'd sell it. Afghanistan is also the home to one of the major strains of weed and had a huge influence on the breeding of pot over the last 50 years.

Lots of people went thru Afghanistan before the Russians invaded. It was a major part of the "hippie trail". I know a few old hippies around here who spent time there. Its really sad what has happened there. There are photos online of students at uni in Kabul in the 70s. They look like uni students anywhere in the west.

It’s bloody awful what’s happened.

 

[giantroo]

 

[Del191229]

Its not bullshit.

Asian heroin was in greater demand in Europe, worth more money and less came here as a result. It was harder to get because we don't have a big enough market to support the prices being asked for it.

Don't ask me how I know that but I do know it and it wasn't because I was trying to import it.

Bullshit.

Australia had ridiculously cheap and pure China White throughout the 90s.

The price of heroin approximately halved over this period, from a median of A$400 per gram in 1996 to A$220 per gram in 2000. While the price of heroin fell dramatically over the study period, the purity of police seizures of the drug was high across all years, ranging between 62% and 71%. In all years heroin was considered easy to obtain by both heroin users who purchased the drug, and by key informants from the law enforcement and health fields. Concurrent with the large fall in heroin prices, there appeared to have been an increase in the number of heroin users.

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[Del191229]

Yea, but that was their warlords ‘friendly’ to the USA, doesn’t count...

Not just warlords, Hamid Karzai himself.

Massive smack dealer.

 

[ferball]

Bullshit.

Australia had ridiculously cheap and pure China White throughout the 90s.

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Yeah, until the point where it dried up almost overnight (and this was before sept 11 and the invasion of Afghanistan. I got married in 2001 months before 9/11 and it was happening before that.) People used to refer to the "heroin drought". The heroin drought and the decrease in Afghan production are close enough together and the decrease in production happened first, well within 12 months.

From what i've heard the heroin trade in Australia has never been that worthwhile, it was pure and cheap, then the purity dropped and the price went up. This happened within less than a year of the Taliban banning Opium, (whatever year that was, '99 or 2000) and a as far as I know the price of heroin in Europe never spiked in response to the ban.

 

[ChoppyGun]