Play Nice Random Chat Thread V

[AnEmptyChair]

Also Israelites =/= Israelis

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Also Israelites =/= Israelis

There is a lineage of sorts, including cultural and religious customs. A bit stronger than the later linkages of modern Palestinian arabs to the Greco-Roman Palestinian entity. But there are ethnic links to a variety of Arab tribes and ‘states’ under the power of Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Makedonia, Rome, etc.

 

[AnEmptyChair]

There is a lineage of sorts, including cultural and religious customs. A bit stronger than the later linkages of modern Palestinian arabs to Greco-Roman Palestinian entity.

Jewish culture and ethnicity is extremely complicated and I don't fully understand it. But I know the whole 'modern Israelis have a historical claim over the land' is extremely contested.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Jewish culture and ethnicity is extremely complicated and I don't fully understand it. But I know the whole 'modern Israelis have a historical claim over the land' is extremely contested.

Definitely agree and there are links for both peoples. It shares similarities to Hitler’s eastern claims with claims to ethnic German areas in Eastern Europe stretching to Belarus. Hell, my ancestors come from Prussian lands only 80 years ago, but they now belong to Poland and Russia. Territorial claims are rarely blood free.

 

[Del191229]

There is a lineage of sorts, including cultural and religious customs. A bit stronger than the later linkages of modern Palestinian arabs to Greco-Roman Palestinian entity. But there are ethnic links to a variety of Arab tribes and ‘states’ under the power of Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Makedonia, Rome, etc.

Modern Israel's ethnic and intellectual heritage is from Eastern Europe

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Modern Israel's ethnic and intellectual heritage is from Eastern Europe

That much intermixing across 1900 years would do that.

 

[AnEmptyChair]

Modern Israel's ethnic and intellectual heritage is from Eastern Europe

Are there any reliable stats on the ratio of 'emigrating' Jews from Europe and the rest of the world and Jewish 'locals' in the population in the aftermath of the creation of the state of Israel?

 

[DR Tipple]

Is there only one side guilty of this though or are both doing the same?

neither side is innocent in this and until both sides admit this fact nothing will change and the cycle will continue one side will pull some horrible shit the other will play the victim card and retaliate with something horrible and the tit for tat bullshit rolls on and on and dirt poor people end up getting a ****ing hellfire missile put thru their lounge window in response to a home made rocket being shot down by a billion dollar missile defense system

 

[Mcarcherey]

The Jewish texts are themselves very clear that there were already lots of people living in the Promised Land when the Israelites turned up and proceeded to enact genocide on them

who did they commit genocide to? the canaanites? isn't this from the old testament? it's not a historical text, they're stories.

also, even so, where/what year is the line drawn to determine who's land it is?

human history is riddled with conquering and massacres. take Australia for example, it was aboriginal's who first inhabited it, you give it back and then the debate is about which tribes had claim over which land, and then it goes further into debate about other tribes having certain land before others etc. etc.

 

[Del191229]

who did they commit genocide too? the canaanites? isn't this from the old testament? it's not a historical text, they're stories.

also, even so, where/what year is the line drawn to determine who's land it is?

human history is riddled with conquering and massacres. take Australia for example, it was aboriginal's who first inhabited it, you give it back and then the debate is about which tribes had claim over which land, and then it goes further into debate about other tribes having certain land before others etc. etc.

None of this makes any sense

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

 

[Hojuman]

What's AFL annual turnover ?

( asking for a friend )

 

[ferball]

I can understand the apathy to the extent that it is very much out of sight out of mind for most of us. The Israel apologists though (whether they are actually knowledgeable on the matter or not, as many of them aren't) make my blood boil, and more often than not always seem to be coming from the view that brown people = terrorist so therefore they deserve it?

It really shouldn't be a controversial opinion to decry apartheid & ethnic cleansing but here we are.

20 years ago the abc would regularly interview Palestinian representatives when this sort of stuff would happen. AS well as Israeli spokespeople. Then at some point in the last decade, maybe more, it stopped. I don't watch the abc these days anyway so they still might do it but they didn't at one point which is why I stopped watching or listening.

 

[Val Keating]

There is a lineage of sorts, including cultural and religious customs. A bit stronger than the later linkages of modern Palestinian arabs to the Greco-Roman Palestinian entity. But there are ethnic links to a variety of Arab tribes and ‘states’ under the power of Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Makedonia, Rome, etc.

Exactly. How far back do you go? Can we claim Africa because all humans are from there?

 

[ferball]

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Exactly. How far back do you go? Can we claim Africa because all humans are from there?

With all the ethnic movements in Mesopotamia, the various Iranian tribes (Alans, Bactrians, Dahae, Khwarazmians, Massagetae, Medes, Parthians, Persians, Sagartians, Sakas, Sarmatians, Scythians, Sogdians, and probably Cimmerians) and then in Europe itself with the Huns, Vandals, various Gothic tribes, Lombards, Franks, etc. how the hell do you even trace lands rights to ancient lands. It is like the Mongols claiming Germany because the Huns settled for a time and then mysteriously fell off the face of the planet shortly after Atilla. It is honestly amazing the Assyrian people lasted as long as they have.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

20 years ago the abc would regularly interview Palestinian representatives when this sort of stuff would happen. AS well as Israeli spokespeople. Then at some point in the last decade, maybe more, it stopped. I don't watch the abc these days anyway so they still might do it but they didn't at one point which is why I stopped watching or listening.

That is something I noticed as a kid, but didn't think much of it at the time. They used to regularly show interviews with Yasser Arafat and give insights that I hadn't seen before. After the Hamas-Fatah stuff, it just started to decline for whatever reason. Maybe the Iraq and Afghan wars took up more viewership, I don't know.

 

[ferball]

This song is 20 years old by the way, well nearly...

Its going well over there.

 

[Val Keating]

Haven't Israeli civilians been killed?

why after no action for 4 years have Israel suddenly attacked first? yet after Hamas was given $250m by Biden, boom Israel attacked Palestine, strange.



Weren't the Israelite's there first...?

Was Hamas given $250m by America?

Yes there has been Israelis killed. The whole thing is awful.

The difference I spose (not in the lives lost sense) is that the killing of civilians has been carried out by the Israeli government, whilst the other has been carried out by civilians living under apartheid.

 

[Hojuman]

With all the ethnic movements in Mesopotamia, the various Iranian tribes (Alans, Bactrians, Dahae, Khwarazmians, Massagetae, Medes, Parthians, Persians, Sagartians, Sakas, Sarmatians, Scythians, Sogdians, and probably Cimmerians) and then in Europe itself with the Huns, Vandals, various Gothic tribes, Lombards, Franks, etc. how the hell do you even trace lands rights to ancient lands. It is like the Mongols claiming Germany because the Huns settled for a time and then mysteriously fell off the face of the planet shortly after Atilla. It is honestly amazing the Assyrian people lasted as long as they have.

" sure K4E, sure "

 

[Val Keating]

With all the ethnic movements in Mesopotamia, the various Iranian tribes (Alans, Bactrians, Dahae, Khwarazmians, Massagetae, Medes, Parthians, Persians, Sagartians, Sakas, Sarmatians, Scythians, Sogdians, and probably Cimmerians) and then in Europe itself with the Huns, Vandals, various Gothic tribes, Lombards, Franks, etc. how the hell do you even trace lands rights to ancient lands. It is like the Mongols claiming Germany because the Huns settled for a time and then mysteriously fell off the face of the planet shortly after Atilla. It is honestly amazing the Assyrian people lasted as long as they have.

And to make it even more complicated, knowing all the persecution the Jews have been through, one can’t listen to the stories and blame the Zionists and Israelis for trying to find a safe place.

The problem is that now the people living there have nothing but hatred for each other because of all the atrocities committed from both sides over the course of generations.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Was Hamas given $250m by America?

Yes there has been Israelis killed. The whole thing is awful.

The difference I spose (not in the lives lost sense) is that the killing of civilians has been carried out by the Israeli government, whilst the other has been carried out by civilians living under apartheid.

Maybe I am haggling over nothing here.

I always felt that apartheid was the wrong term to describe the current predicament faced by Palestinians. There are 1.9 million Arab citizens living in Israeli territory atm with the exact same rights as Jews and who serve actively in the military. Apartheid was primarily racial segregation. Gaza and the West Bank are supposed to be a form of self-governing territory under Palestinian rule with their own set of rights, which it is to an extent. Jewish settlers had made that a lot more difficult. You can call it unsanctioned warfare, invasion of Palestinian territory, war crimes or even a form of genocide as many astute scholars and organisations assert (I don't think the intent part is there for mine, but I know it is a contentious issue), but probably not apartheid.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

And to make it even more complicated, knowing all the persecution the Jews have been through, one can’t listen to the stories and blame the Zionists and Israelis for trying to find a safe place.

The problem is that now the people living there that have nothing but hatred for each other because of all the atrocities committed from both sides over the course of generations.

It is what motivated more earlier lengthy post. The common people as used as pawns by a bunch of bad faith actors, aspiring powers and external powers drawing boundaries.

 

[Val Keating]

Maybe I am haggling over nothing here.

I always felt that apartheid was the wrong term to describe the current predicament faced by Palestinians. There are 1.9 million Arab citizens living in Israeli territory atm with the exact same rights as Jews and who serve actively in the military. Apartheid was primarily racial segregation. Gaza and the West Bank are supposed to be a form of self-governing territory under Palestinian rule with their own set of rights, which it is to an extent. Jewish settlers had made that a lot more difficult. You can call it unsanctioned warfare, invasion of Palestinian territory, war crimes or even a form of genocide as many astute scholars and organisations assert (I don't think the intent part is there for mine, but I know it is a contentious issue), but probably not apartheid.

Smarter people then me are saying it’s apartheid. Can a Palestinian become the PM of Israel?

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Smarter people then me are saying it’s apartheid. Can a Palestinian become the PM of Israel?

As I said, I'm probably just haggling over terms unnecessarily.

I assume so with 14 Arab members of parliament and they have been allowed into elected office since 1949. They would struggle to get an Arab majority though to become PM. There is also some contention over certain civic rights, certain laws being racist and tensions over Israel's wars on PLA and Hamas territory. Generally speaking, they enjoy pretty much the same rights with a few contentious things.