Play Nice Random Chat Thread V

[ferball]

It’d be ironic if technology caused society to go backwards.

The prediction (the letter I mentioned earlier) is that there will be a kind of split in society where there’s people who live in the smart cities go one way and those who want privacy go the other.

The idea its going backwards means there has to be some "forwards" it was moving to. But there isn't is there? Its a cycle if anything. Look at Germany post ww1. 1920-30 Germany is similar to where we are as a society in some ways.

And in other ways it is moving forwards. What is the thing people call wokeism? Alot of it stems from the idea we dont treat people like shit for no good reason anymore. As warped as some of it is its only a natural response to people ignoring that idea. All things are "bad" if they fall out of balance. Or if they become mindless dogma.

I think the specific part of tech that is driving society backwards, or apart is social media and information tech specifically the echo chamber it creates and its ease of manipulation. Alot of the people I hang out with have different politics, but we have alot of other things in common and that makes it easier to talk about politics in a respectful way, or at least a less toxic one than happens in places like this.

 

[ferball]

Yeah I wonder if we will be permitted the choice though.

Unlikely.

What have you got to hide etc etc.

And this is the thing about surveillance societies. Everybody has something to hide.^ People will develop ways to avoid surveillance. Or reject it. It wont happen at once but it will happen as the pressure of it builds.

Amygdala Activation for Eye Contact Despite Complete Cortical Blindness

Cortical blindness refers to the loss of vision that occurs after destruction of the primary visual cortex. Although there is no sensory cortex and hence no conscious vision, some cortically blind patients show amygdala activation in response to facial or bodily expressions of emotion. Here we...

www.jneurosci.org

That study suggests perception of observation is independent of the visual cortex and triggers a response in your amygdala, which regulates fear among other things. This will make people nervous and potentially cause problems:

Workplace surveillance boosts stress levels

Half of the UK's employees are being watched by 'Big Brother'-style IT systems, leading privacy advocates to call for greater protections

www.zdnet.com

^Except for me and my monkey obviously.

 

[Val Keating]

The idea its going backwards means there has to be some "forwards" it was moving to. But there isn't is there? Its a cycle if anything. Look at Germany post ww1. 1920-30 Germany is similar to where we are as a society in some ways.

And in other ways it is moving forwards. What is the thing people call wokeism? Alot of it stems from the idea we dont treat people like sh*t for no good reason anymore. As warped as some of it is its only a natural response to people ignoring that idea. All things are "bad" if they fall out of balance. Or if they become mindless dogma.

I think the specific part of tech that is driving society backwards, or apart is social media and information tech specifically the echo chamber it creates and its ease of manipulation. Alot of the people I hang out with have different politics, but we have alot of other things in common and that makes it easier to talk about politics in a respectful way, or at least a less toxic one than happens in places like this.

I mean in terms of individual independence.

 

[Val Keating]

He just calls a few social developments he doesn't like "politics".

You’re crazy if you think I’m going to get in the middle of you two. Get a marriage councillor or something

 

[Snake_Baker]

Ah, so you finally accept that science is subservient to politics.

Until the planes start falling out of the sky.....or a nuclear weapon is required.....or a viral pandemic shuts down the entire circus.

Your house of cards tumbles down at that point.

 

[Swallow_Wood]

Your personal insecurities are not my problem.

Ah, clearly.

 

[ferball]

I mean in terms of individual independence.

Individual independence is a fairly recent thing isn't it? Tho I agree. But you have to go back to tribal societies to find individual independence that is a on a similar scale to what we have, unless its in the elite of a society, and even then its only some societies.

I once read an argument that individual independence and rights as we understand them are actually only a concept because of Jesus and the doctrine of individual salvation. That other cultures define people as part of a collective as well as by their individual identity. Part of a tribe or family, and its the independence or freedom of that tribe or family that holds the value individual independence holds for westerners.

 

[Del191229]

Until the planes start falling out of the sky.....or a nuclear weapon is required.....or a viral pandemic shuts down the entire circus.

Your house of cards tumbles down at that point.

No, as we saw in Victoria this very winter politics then enlists the scientists to form the correct response.

Science done very well out of Dan Andrews lately.

Money galore for new research facilities and programs.

 

[Val Keating]

Individual independence is a fairly recent thing isn't it? Tho I agree. But you have to go back to tribal societies to find individual independence that is a on a similar scale to what we have, unless its in the elite of a society, and even then its only some societies.

I once read an argument that individual independence and rights as we understand them are actually only a concept because of Jesus and the doctrine of individual salvation. That other cultures define people as part of a collective as well as by their individual identity. Part of a tribe or family, and its the independence or freedom of that tribe or family that holds the value individual independence holds for westerners.

Yeah man, that’s my point. Society has finally reached the point where individuals have independence and it’ll be ironic that technology evolution will regress it back to a form of feudalism

 

[Del191229]

The order is:

Culture

Politics

Science

Hilarious thing is that the intellectual architect of all the shit Tef posts understands this implicitly.

 

[ferball]

The order is:

Culture

Politics

Science

Hilarious thing is that the intellectual architect of all the sh*t Tef posts understands this implicitly.

are you referring to the intensely political cultural gatekeeper we talked about upthread?

 

[Snake_Baker]

Yeah man, that’s my point. Society has finally reached the point where individuals have independence ..........

We've never had so many ****ing laws and useless bureaucrats employed to administer them!!!

.........it’ll be ironic that technology evolution will regress it back to a form of feudalism

What do you think built this society?

It's when the humanities parasites grabbed the steering wheel that technology began to lead humans down the path of destruction.

Do you think think that Tesla, Edison, Turing and Babbage are responsible for the contemporary twitter, facebook, Amazon, Google and Diebold?

 

[Val Keating]

We've never had so many ****ing laws and useless bureaucrats employed to administer them!!!

Meh bureaucrats today, Religious leaders and monarchs the past. Know what I’d rather.

We’d need society to fall apart to live your libertarian or anarchy dream.

 

[ferball]

Yeah man, that’s my point. Society has finally reached the point where individuals have independence and it’ll be ironic that technology evolution will regress it back to a form of feudalism

It hasnt happened yet tho. Don't assume any conclusion is forgone. All of the things that lead us to this point were based on freedom. The freedom we get from using oil to do work and the freedom we have in modern societies to think outside the box without fear of being burnt at the stake or tortured to death for challenging the crown. The driving force of all that is the innovation and we can innovate because we can explore freely without the sort of punishment that was common in the past. Anything that directly attacks this limits it options because it limits the freedom its systems have to act in response to changing circumstances.

But against that...

How many people genuinely want independence? Has five or ten thousand years of kings, emperors and other rulers changed us that much that we now select as a species for subservience and deference to authority without a fight? I dont know if evolution works that quickly on organisms without massive upheaval (although that history could be said to be massive upheaval). But I find it interesting how many people are willing to submit to authority without question. I think alot of it has to do with relying on societies infrastructure instead of their wits and talent to survive.

They may tolerate an oppressive surveillance state if it keeps them healthy and happily distracted but we are facing a real crunch for available resources over the next 50 years so that becomes harder. Especially for a society as big as China for example, where the idea of individual freedom is alot less powerful/important and the technosurveillance is much more effective. If the food stops flowing to the cities China will implode.

 

[ferball]

Meh bureaucrats today, Religious leaders and monarchs the past. Know what I’d rather.

We’d need society to fall apart to live your libertarian or anarchy dream.

Bureaucrats in australia are okay. In Russia or Germany in the 30s and 40s they would be very different and have alot more power to **** people up.

And the libertarian dream is a whole other story. These days it is effectively a mega rich fantasy about removing the protections government provides against "market forces". Thatcher is quoted as saying "there is no such thing as society".

 

[The Other Dean]

I once read an argument that individual independence and rights as we understand them are actually only a concept because of Jesus and the doctrine of individual salvation.

 

[rickety]

Managed to snag a second hand 1 of these for my budding Richie Sambora

 

[Agenda 21]

Webb is ok.

Like Greenwald. If she gets dodgy info its because agencies use people like her (and Greenwald) for disinfo or other purposes. Because they have built trust with the public who are sceptical of MSM already. That is what happened with the intercept.

I guess theoretically that lack of privcy is okay if there are no stupid laws. Ie drug laws, anti whistle blowing etc. in an ideal libertarian society with a culture of protecting society from markets, where everyone pays everyone else due respect, most of the time you only need minimal personal property laws and laws for personal physical protection. It will never happen obviously cos of the conflict between one persons view of protecting socety from the market and another person's view. Some people will view asbestos or heroin as reasonable products, buyer beware. Others won't (what happens to all the asbestos dust for example.) Provided people like Dani Laidley are allowed to live their lives in peace (minus the stalking obviously).

I think the other part of the picture she painted is a nightmare. Aside from the corporate socialist implications not owning your own stuff is anti human.

Even indigenous tribes around the world have ownership rules, especially IP ownership rules (that are often broken by big pharma etc, who dont recognise them). This is exactly what I am talking about when I start banging on about neo feudalism. Here, IMo anyway, the only way something like that would work is if the Crown in Australia owned everything and every adult citizen was an equal shareholder. That would be a form of corporate Communism, its also a form a fascist economics I don't mind if its not tied to authoritarianism.

Otherwise you are constantly paying the mega rich for the right to live. I'd become a pirate in that sort of world. Time to learn to hack drones and robot dogs...

Good read.

I get to the end and see that Bont is still a dog.

 

[koshari]

Managed to snag a second hand 1 of these for my budding Richie Sambora
View attachment 1020427

Is he learning on a folk guitar? Those steel strings are hard on the fingers straight up. Even richie would have been playing the blues before living on a prayer.

 

[Snake_Baker]

We’d need society to fall apart to live your libertarian or anarchy dream.

Then don't claim you like anything more than the current version of a prison.

Just don't call it "independence". Most people couldn't handle the real concept.

 

[rickety]

Is he learning on a folk guitar? Those steel strings are hard on the fingers straight up. Even richie would have been playing the blues before living on a prayer.

He has an acoustic that he swings about like Jack O'Toole This new thing has him as happy as Larry. He started at a new school at the start of this term and the music component of the school is awesome tbh. His music teacher is stoked to have such a keen apprentice and I am confident he will guide him accordingly. A couple of mates at work know the teacher quite well and speak highly of him. That said, my best little mate has snagged the "Ringo" character in the school production! He gets to play along with the rest of the band. Not bad for a kid who has only been drumming a few weeks. It's not a hard thing for him, more a constant. I have told him though, if he wants to be a drummer he needs to lose an arm Rick Allen style

 

[Val Keating]

Then don't claim you like anything more than the current version of a prison.

Just don't call it "independence". Most people couldn't handle the real concept.

Don’t mind the current version. Just don’t like where it’s potentially heading.

Spose it depends on how literally you want to take “independent”

 

[Snake_Baker]

Calling out liberal w@nkers

 

[Tectonic]

Calling out liberal w@nkers

The issues make me have to adapt. If I don't adapt and I stay rigid to one particular philosophy, then I'm nothing more than an idiot,” he said. “And that's the problem with being all or nothing, and that's the great divide we're now facing at the moment, the idiocy of it all to the left, all to the right

John Lydon defends Trump's attacks on mainstream press: 'More power to him'

John Lydon's fascination with competing viewpoints is on display in his new book, “I Could Be Wrong, I Could Be Right,” whose title is a lyric taken from Public Image Limited’s best known song, “Rise.”

www.foxnews.com

That being said, don't forget to purchase the advertised products;

 

[giantroo]

Diego's doctor is being investigated for manslaughter

Diego Maradona dead: Doctor Leopoldo Luque manslaughter investigation, offices raided | Football news

Police have swooped on the house of Diego Maradona’s personal doctor amid reports the legend’s death is being treated as manslaughter.

amp.news.com.au