Play Nice Random Chat Thread V

[Kangaroos4eva]

What’s CRT?

Critical race theory.

 

[B4Bear]

I honestly believe that you would send an innocent man to prison purely because it suited your political convictions.

Only if it was you.

 

[Snake_Baker]

I don't know about it. The article stated that an investigation took place in relation to the CLEANING, and the investigating body reported that it took place as an anonymous complaint. They reported it. They are allowed to report on their investigations.

Now WHO would instigate an "anonymous" cleaning complaint allegedly related to a rape investigation involving a government official?

Hmmmm.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Only if it was you.

LOL, you would never make it past the first 5 seconds of the empaneling process.

 

[Themanbun]

Now WHO would instigate an "anonymous" cleaning complaint allegedly related to a rape investigation?

Hmmmm.

Quite literally this person.

Security expert checked CCTV after claim of Parliament cover-up

An anonymous tip about criminal conduct in Parliament House led to a national security expert checking CCTV over claims of interference in a suspected crime scene.

www.google.com

 

[Snake_Baker]

Quite literally this person.


View attachment 1060716

Security expert checked CCTV after claim of Parliament cover-up

An anonymous tip about criminal conduct in Parliament House led to a national security expert checking CCTV over claims of interference in a suspected crime scene.

www.google.com

That's not related to my quote.

 

[Themanbun]

That's not related to my quote.

Read instigate as investigate.

It could be anyone, which is exactly why they conduct an investigation to verify the information received. In this case, as the article mentioned, it was unverified so no charges were laid regarding concealing evidence and no conviction was obtained.

Statement 1: would they have cameras

Me: I'm presuming yes because there was a previous investigation into the cleaning based on an anon report

You then interjected to claim that this is how Lindy Chamberlain got convicted and you don't believe that someone put in an anonymous report.

I'm just saying an investigation was conducted in response and no one was found to have done wrong on the cleaning aspect...

It's not really good faith to just keep responding and changing the goal posts before I just give up.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Read instigate as investigate.

It could be anyone, which is exactly why they conduct an investigation to verify the information received.

This DOESN'T jump off the page at you?!

 

[Themanbun]

This DOESN'T jump off the page at you?!

View attachment 1060721

What the heck are you even replying to? Like what point do you think I'm making?

I was telling VK that there's presumably cameras in or around the office due to me having read it when reading about the anonymous complaint investigation.

I have posted two comments in relation to this before you jumped down my throat. One, to say that I read she has lodged a complaint with the AFP partly to get the CCTV footage. And the second to tell someone that I think there are cameras there due to having read something earlier.

I haven't sat here and slandered anyone and I'm certainly not going to slander her version of events.

 

[Del191229]

Innocent men HAVE BEEN wrongly incarcerated because of such behavior.

I wonder if more innocent men have been jailed or blokes have got away with it.

Over the journey.

Hard to say really.

 

[Snake_Baker]

What the heck are you even replying to? Like what point do you think I'm making?

Are you kidding?

I asked who might make an "anonymous" tip off and you posted literally NOTHING about an anonymous tip off.

I have compassion for the young lass, but a consensual sexual dalliance that has become public and caused her embarrassment & potential career harm, is not out of the question going by my initial reading of the events.

 

[Themanbun]

Are you kidding?

I asked who might make an "anonymous" tip off and you posted literally NOTHING about an anonymous tip off.

I have compassion for the young lass, but a consensual sexual dalliance that has become public and caused her embarrassment & potential career harm, is not out of the question going by my initial reading of the events.

Dude I literally just said it could be anyone and that is why they investigate to see if it can be independently verified. It doesn't just go unverified anonymous tip off to someone behind bars. That's just not how things work and the nature of it being anonymous means it could be anyone. It doesn't have to be sinister, as you implied, but it could be. Who knows. Let the investigators investigate.

I'm going to stop responding because you're chasing the wrong rabbit down a weird hole mate.

 

[Snake_Baker]

What is the context of this?

Did she have to front the Chief of Staff after the alleged "rapist" had been sacked, in order to answer why she was also in the office (and face potential sacking herself)? Who instigated this meeting and why?

 

[Del191229]

Funny how he has found himself aligning exactly with the right wing government and media position again isn't it.

For such a free thinker who sees beyond the left right charade.

 

[Snake_Baker]

You wouldn't want this blinkered simpleton on a jury either.

 

[Val Keating]

There’s Zero chance id ever sit on a jury

 

[Snake_Baker]

There’s Zero chance id ever sit on a jury

There's zero chance I'd ever be offered.

 

[Del191229]

You wouldn't want this blinkered simpleton on a jury either.

If you'd asked politely I'd have explained my position and fundamentally it is no different from yours. There needs to be an investigation, and then if suitable evidence to bring charges, court proceedings.

But you spew such invective and bile you've absorbed from the right wing shit you consume you can't do that.

I note the AFP have said it is still an open investigation. So for obvious reasons I'm not going to comment on specifics.

That we fundamentally agree is no surprise. There's dozens of threads from previous years where we are in furious agreement on this kind of stuff.

But your worldview has changed. From reports by Sam Maiden and Peter Van Onsekem the Prime Ministers Office is briefing against the young woman using exactly the same kind of lines of attack you're using here.

My point is that again your views line up with the most conservative government in a generation.

That's fine btw.

But spare us the posing about being a free thinker who isn't invested blah blah.

 

[B4Bear]

This DOESN'T jump off the page at you?!

View attachment 1060721

You are paraphrasing and removing context there.

She didn’t know that multiple security guards multiple times saw her in a semi-state of undress inside the ministers office. That is what that quote is actually about.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

No matter how hard I try, I just cannot understand this line of thinking from someone who is otherwise a very decent person who I've always liked and respected for as long as I've known you on here -- well, as much as you can get in an online community where you don't meet face-to-face.

A personal rejection of a philosophy and worldview that at its heart is about providing better outcomes for disadvantaged people in marginalised communities -- albeit in a way that you obviously disagree with -- is enough to favour a party that has been involved and often covered up scandal after scandal, proving themselves completely and utterly morally and ethically bereft over the journey, completely lacking in compassion and empathy for those outside their upper-class elite. And I disagree that it's just the actions of a few that doesn't represent the party either. This IS the modern LNP. This IS what they represent. This isn't the party of the principled and egalitarian classic liberals. This is who they are and they've proven that time and time again.

I do appreciate the kind words and my mutual respect does go both ways.

I cannot in good conscience subscribe to a worldview that treats me as an (unwilling) racist agent in upholding an allegedly racist system based purely on the colour of my skin. I had no choice being born a certain skin colour, biology and sexual orientation, but I am being told to atone for it all because of my 'white privilege'. It is absolutely insulting and pure racism. Having worked in charities and also visited a few marginalised communities, I support the need for urgent action, but CRT isn't the way to do it.



I am not going to defend the Liberal Party's past actions and what it is now. Rape is a horrendous thing and what happened to that poor girl was horrendous. All I can do now is hold them accountable for their past and current sins and devote my efforts to ensuring that the party becomes what it was supposed to be, just like you hold the ALP accountable to its founding principles. My principles will never be 100% aligned to the LNP and they never will be.

 

[Snake_Baker]

I do appreciate the kind words and my mutual respect does go both ways.

I cannot in good conscience subscribe to a worldview that treats me as an (unwilling) racist agent in upholding an allegedly racist system based purely on the colour of my skin. I had no choice being born a certain skin colour, biology and sexual orientation, but I am being told to atone for it all because of my 'white privilege'. It is absolutely insulting and pure racism. Having worked in charities and also visited a few marginalised communities, I support the need for urgent action, but CRT isn't the way to do it.

As if anyone needed further proof that wokeism was a disturbed state of mind.

 

[AnEmptyChair]

I do appreciate the kind words and my mutual respect does go both ways.

I cannot in good conscience subscribe to a worldview that treats me as an (unwilling) racist agent in upholding an allegedly racist system based purely on the colour of my skin. I had no choice being born a certain skin colour, biology and sexual orientation, but I am being told to atone for it all because of my 'white privilege'. It is absolutely insulting and pure racism. Having worked in charities and also visited a few marginalised communities, I support the need for urgent action, but CRT isn't the way to do it.



I am not going to defend the Liberal Party's past actions and what it is now. Rape is a horrendous thing and what happened to that poor girl was horrendous. All I can do now is hold them accountable for their past and current sins and devote my efforts to ensuring that the party becomes what it was supposed to be, just like you hold the ALP accountable to its founding principles. My principles will never be 100% aligned to the LNP and they never will be.

I mean, I think you vastly overestimate those personal aspects of the approach and that it manifests more broadly, targeting the policy level and attitudes and approaches at the upper level of business. I also agree that it's not a panacea, but it is a valid lens through which to look at sustained and entrenched disadvantage and marginalisation over a long period of time, but that would be a very long, very tedious discussion that's been done in one form or another in the past.

I actually deleted that OP because re-reading it I thought it bordered on personal, and I really didn't want to give you that impression because I really did mean that first para.

And FWIW to make it clear I can't stand the modern ALP. I don't support them in their current iteration politically or personally and haven't for a number of years. But in saying that, I don't think they're as downright evil as the LNP. Politically, I'm so thankful that we have preferential voting and it's frustrating that so many people operate in this democracy and in this current system without fully understanding it.

 

[Tas]

A very close friend of mine was r*ped when she was younger, so I am by no means trivialising or victim blaming actual victims of crime, but my major issue with the believe all women stance is that some do actually lie and some do not see a distinction between regret for their choices/actions and what is rape.

I do not think people should have sex after drinking heavily, because I am not sure people can make well informed decisions, what may have been consensual at the time might not be remembered as consensual the day after, or a particularly party might not remember giving consent. Our laws are also not clear enough in terms of how intoxicated or high someone can be and give consent, it seems to be up to the judge/jury to decide. It is a bit like getting into a plane and let someone decide if your parachute is going to work or not after you have jumped out of the plane.

The consequences are life changing and not usually in a positive way. This lady is now seeking to get justice, the guy has checked himself in for psychological care. Both their careers in politics are down the toilet. Was it worth it?

I think we need to change attitudes, we need to encourage people to get to know people better before getting intimate, hookup culture is cancerous, we have obscenely high rates of sexual abuse and rape and if the only place we are going to deal with it is after the fact it is just going to see numerous lives ruined.

It has to be something that is target before a crime has been committed, regardless if someone is prosecuted or not, it is not going to rewind time to before the incident.

Something that we also have to address is the fact some people lie and some people lie and are prepared to see someone's life ruined and go to jail for a very long time sometimes for absurd reasons. You can't ever trust anyone to tell the truth while there are plenty of people who lie and because the punishment is so high the standard of proof is very high as well, for this reason there are very poor rates of conviction and a lot of victims do not get justice because the burden of proof can at times be impossible to satisfy given the often lack of evidence and private situation.

I think it is just sad for our society that this keeps happening. I have sisters, nieces, aunts, my mum... I never want any of them to be a victim, even if you get "justice", you will never get back to the person you were before.

 

[SpiderBurton22]

Something I've picked up in the last page or two is that there seems to be a worry about false accusations and ruining another persons life. Almost like you just go in and say this bloke r*ped me and he is charged.

Let me say from supporting someone who went through the reporting process that the process to report a sexual assault and to accuse someone is not a quick or easy one. There are multiple interviews with the victim. Going over every minute detail, time and time again. Double, triple checking. It can take weeks, months before the accused is even interviewed.

Unfortunately some people will be falsely accused and have their lives turned upside down but they would pale into insignificance to all the unreported assaults from victims who will never be the same person again.

 

[AnEmptyChair]

Something I've picked up in the last page or two is that there seems to be a worry about false accusations and ruining another persons life. Almost like you just go in and say this bloke r*ped me and he is charged.

Let me say from supporting someone who went through the reporting process that the process to report a sexual assault and to accuse someone is not a quick or easy one. There are multiple interviews with the victim. Going over every minute detail, time and time again. Double, triple checking. It can take weeks, months before the accused is even interviewed.

Unfortunately some people will be falsely accused and have their lives turned upside down but they would pale into insignificance to all the unreported assaults from victims who will never be the same person again.

From what I understand, this is one of the big reasons why so many assaults go unreported or victims can't continue after an initial complaint. It's effectively reliving the trauma over and over again.