Play Nice Random Chat Thread V

[Del191229]

We just write ours on a piece of paper and some random person counts them up. There’s always going to be some kind of voter fraud.

Voter fraud is non existent in Australia.

Like, you can count the number of proven cases in recent years without taking your shoes and socks off.

Our biggest issue is stuff ups with preference crap in the Senate, like happened in WA a few years back.

But electronic machines for voting?

No no no no no.

 

[Tectonic]

Voter fraud is non existent in Australia.

Like, you can count the number of proven cases in recent years without taking your shoes and socks off.

Our biggest issue is stuff ups with preference crap in the Senate, like happened in WA a few years back.

But electronic machines for voting?

No no no no no.

Might be possible to secure with blockchain tech

 

[Del191229]

It has been a systematic destruction of confidence of the process.

Fascinating and brilliant phrase.

This is tactic that's one of the most common methods of dealing power, which is also known as politics.

You seize or influence power by destroying confidence of the process by which power is distributed/legitimised.

Like all tools it can be deployed at scale.

Liz Lukin used it at Essendon to achieve Essendon's goals of keeping the members onside and the $$$ flowing in during the doping stuff.

Donald Trump tried it during the 2020 election campaign and it worked on the tactical level - he successfully destroyed the confidence in the process of tens of millions of people, to the point where they physically attacked the very seat of the process - but failed on the strategic level, because he's not President any more.

Putin understands you really don't need much at all on the tactical level, certainly not people storming buildings, to make it work on the strategic level - Putin is still in control despite his opponents using every tactic short of hot war (which MAD prevents) yo oust him.

So in your scenario, who is seeking to destroy confidence in the process, and why.

 

[DesertRoo]

Might be possible to secure with blockchain tech

Watch the movie, they basically all come to the same conclusion, paper system is the best..
If they want to speed up the process use more stations, each county is spending hundreds of millions on this stuff, it’s ridiculous.

 

[Del191229]

Donny certainly wasn’t the start but was probably the catalyst for a group of individuals stating never again.

Military rule is a very real possibility in the US in the next decade or so.

Military actually understands shit like climate change is real, what an intelligence agency feint with Facey ads versus the Seventh Fleet being sunk in a morning means when you're talking about "conflict". What it means if the Iranians do actually nuclearise.

All these are key REALITIES that US politicians from BOTH major parties, but currently more dramatically on the GOP side, have become completely detached from.

Like Val Keating was saying, some nutbar gets in 2024, the military are going be more ready than they were with Trump.

 

[Del191229]

Might be possible to secure with blockchain tech

Secure what?

It is already secure as shit. Our AEC and system of elections is the envy of the frigging world.

Man, we have enough problems without inventing new ones.

Though there's an increasing push by right wing nutbars to introduce "voter ID" which is very dangerous.

 

[Tectonic]

Watch the movie, they basically all come to the same conclusion, paper system is the best..
If they want to speed up the process use more stations, each county is spending hundreds of millions on this stuff, it’s ridiculous.

Well yeah paper is definitely the best way to do it right now. There's a ton of stuff that would need to basically be invented and fixed, but if we did end up with a fully digitized vote it would surely have to be decentralized, consensus backed and secure. Which are all things groups like Monero and LTO are working on

 

[Tectonic]

Secure what?

It is already secure as sh*t. Our AEC and system of elections is the envy of the frigging world.

Man, we have enough problems without inventing new ones.

Though there's an increasing push by right wing nutbars to introduce "voter ID" which is very dangerous.

I'm not saying ours is flawed. I prefer paper as well.. But, if we ended up with digital voting I would trust an evolved blockchain style system more than a program from the folks who brought you covidsafe

 

[DesertRoo]

Well yeah paper is definitely the best way to do it right now. There's a ton of stuff that would need to basically be invented and fixed, but if we did end up with a fully digitized vote it would surely have to be decentralized, consensus backed and secure. Which are all things groups like Monero and LTO are working on

Backed and secure?
I don’t understand these words, when talking about computers especially when talking gov departments...

need to remove tech from the equation as it’s inherently fallible.

 

[DesertRoo]

Military rule is a very real possibility in the US in the next decade or so.

Military actually understands sh*t like climate change is real, what an intelligence agency feint with Facey ads versus the Seventh Fleet being sunk in a morning means when you're talking about "conflict". What it means if the Iranians do actually nuclearise.

All these are key REALITIES that US politicians from BOTH major parties, but currently more dramatically on the GOP side, have become completely detached from.

Like Val Keating was saying, some nutbar gets in 2024, the military are going be more ready than they were with Trump.

It’s why these so called culture wars are dangerous..
America is the most militarized country on the planet, rightly or wrongly, it’s this heritage that people are trying to distort.

Calling for violence in the streets, burn it down, rah rah, it’s the above group that’s going to pop out and there will be no genie to put back in the bottle.

 

[Del191229]

It’s why these so called culture wars are dangerous..
America is the most militarized country on the planet, rightly or wrongly, it’s this heritage that people are trying to distort.

Calling for violence in the streets, burn it down, rah rah, it’s the above group that’s going to pop out and there will be no genie to put back in the bottle.

I believe the Romans found themselves in this situation.

 

[Tectonic]

Backed and secure?
I don’t understand these words, when talking about computers especially when talking gov departments...

need to remove tech from the equation as it’s inherently fallible.

I guess we see it differently, users are the issue, not tech, at least in my eyes. (But I'm 100% biased on that lol, my optimism for tech knows no bounds)
in this case users being the government controlling the tech.

This is what I mean when I say consensus;

Discover Consensus Mechanisms: Blockchain and Cryptocurrency Essentials

Explore consensus mechanisms in blockchain and cryptocurrency. Learn how they secure data, enhance trust, and support digital ledgers efficiently.

www.investopedia.com

 

[DesertRoo]

I believe the Romans found themselves in this situation.

You get someone like Gen Flynn who believes he’s the ultimate patriot, has massive support around the states, close family links to the top echelon to the military, he is crossing the rubicon..

 

[DesertRoo]

I guess we see it differently, users are the issue, not tech, at least in my eyes. (But I'm 100% biased on that lol, my optimism for tech knows no bounds)
in this case users being the government controlling the tech.

This is what I mean when I say consensus;

Discover Consensus Mechanisms: Blockchain and Cryptocurrency Essentials

Explore consensus mechanisms in blockchain and cryptocurrency. Learn how they secure data, enhance trust, and support digital ledgers efficiently.

www.investopedia.com

The problem with things like block chain are they’re based off sha-256 encryption algorithm.
Quantium computer can already break this encryption standard pretty quickly.
if you add machine learning into this equation, you’ve basically just created a system, that can be altered and never be traced back.

if someone tells you something can’t be hacked they’re either incompetent or lying.

 

[Val Keating]

I believe the Romans found themselves in this situation.

Pretty much. Took a long time for them to realise it though

 

[Tectonic]

The problem with things like block chain are they’re based off sha-256 encryption algorithm.
Quantium computer can already break this encryption standard pretty quickly.
if you add machine learning into this equation, you’ve basically just created a system, that can be altered and never be traced back.

if someone tells you something can’t be hacked they’re either incompetent or lying.

Of course nothing is truly secure. But I do feel like you're getting a bit ahead of yourself wrt quantum computers. Haven't personally read anything that has quantum computers able to perform anything above what we can practically perform with current hardware yet.
But as computers develop, so do encryption needs (and hacking tools). It'll be an interesting line to follow in the coming decades either way

 

[Del191229]

You get someone like Gen Flynn who believes he’s the ultimate patriot, has massive support around the states, close family links to the top echelon to the military, he is crossing the rubicon..

Isn't just ****ing amazing and brilliant how something that literally happened thousands of years ago is still so central to our understanding of the world and how it works. How three people who have never met in person like you and me and Val Keating can refer to an event - some people crossing a river in a certain place at a certain time for a certain reason - that happened two thousand years ago and we know EXACTLY what each other means.

It is that old thing, people rarely understand they are Making History when they do stuff. Julius and his generals knew exactly the importance of what they were doing when they crossed the river.

But the other thousands of folks who were there and did it? The foot soldiers? The slave boys that looked after horses. The camp hookers? The fast food van people, the carnies with their shows they put on at night to amuse the soldiers? The miserable bastards in charge of looking after the stakes that formed the outer walls of the camp that were put up each night when on campaign?

Snake_Baker puts shit on Arts graduates and courses.

But much of that work is about trying to understand those situations that we still talk about about like "crossing the Rubicon".

And he shits on "post modernism" but without it we wouldn't really get our heads around the idea that the vast majority of people involved with ACTUALLY crossing the Rubicon had no idea they were Crossing The Rubicon in the sense we mean.

Lots wouldn't have even known what was happening, just another river really. Crossed them before, cross them again.

 

[Del191229]

Pretty much. Took a long time for them to realise it though

Kind of like how it would have taken the average Roman (in the West) a fair while to realise their empire had "fallen".

 

[D23D]

Voter fraud is non existent in Australia.

Like, you can count the number of proven cases in recent years without taking your shoes and socks off.

Our biggest issue is stuff ups with preference crap in the Senate, like happened in WA a few years back.

But electronic machines for voting?

No no no no no.

Agreed. But I wouldn’t mind using an ink pen for voting instead of a pencil, all the same!

 

[DesertRoo]

Of course nothing is truly secure. But I do feel like you're getting a bit ahead of yourself wrt quantum computers. Haven't personally read anything that has quantum computers able to perform anything above what we can practically perform with current hardware yet.
But as computers develop, so do encryption needs (and hacking tools). It'll be an interesting line to follow in the coming decades either way

Googles Quantum computer already did the qubits test to be able to break sha-256 quickly and effectively. And Moore’s law of tech, 18 months away that is exponential.
Fair enough they haven’t linked ai or machine learning to this yet, so blockchain can’t be forked but that’s only a matter of time.
So we’ve just entered a tech race with computer algorithms, for a system we’re going to spend hundreds of millions on, only to be obsolete by next 4 year voting cycle.. and that’s not even thinking these machines are inherently dodgy and designed to get a preferred outcome.

or simply we could just use paper and always be able to count and recount..

 

[Tectonic]

Googles Quantum computer already did the qubits test to be able to break sha-256 quickly and effectively. And Moore’s law of tech, 18 months away that is exponential.
Fair enough they haven’t linked ai or machine learning to this yet, so blockchain can’t be forked but that’s only a matter of time.
So we’ve just enter a tech race with computer algorithms, for a system we’re going to spend hundreds of millions on to be obsolete by next 4 year voting cycle.. and that’s not even thinking these machines are inherently dodgy and designed to get a preferred outcome.

or simply we could just use paper and always be able to count and recount..

Well I did say at the start of all this I preferred paper!
Just that it's not impossible to imagine a technology that could eventually be good enough to supplant it.

 

[Tectonic]

Googles Quantum computer already did the qubits test to be able to break sha-256 quickly and effectively. And Moore’s law of tech, 18 months away that is exponential.
Fair enough they haven’t linked ai or machine learning to this yet, so blockchain can’t be forked but that’s only a matter of time.
So we’ve just enter a tech race with computer algorithms, for a system we’re going to spend hundreds of millions on to be obsolete by next 4 year voting cycle.. and that’s not even thinking these machines are inherently dodgy and designed to get a preferred outcome.

or simply we could just use paper and always be able to count and recount..

Also I'm really curious- can't for the life of me find the Google quantum computer info, have they actually done anything or is it all just hype right now?

 

[Snake_Baker]

Agreed. But I wouldn’t mind using an ink pen for voting instead of a pencil, all the same!

They're all ****ed if "None of the above" ever appears at the bottom of the ballot paper.

 

[Tectonic]

They're all ****ed if "None of the above" ever appears at the bottom of the ballot paper.

Haha yeah imagine if there was a way to submit a blank ballot wouldn't that be crazy

 

[D23D]

They're all ****ed if "None of the above" ever appears at the bottom of the ballot paper.

I agree with you mate. Although (because of my upbringing), I’m still (barely) a labour voter even though they haven’t done eff all for their core voters since I was pretty much old enough to vote.
Still, through all their self serving garbage, we are still a great country to live in, although much of that is probably on the back of our grandparents toil