Play Nice Random Chat Thread V

[Val Keating]

I don't disagree, and I think my follow up point about it being more common to criticise certain organisations, iterations or movements within religions touches on that.

But then you see comments like this:



and, well, it ain't a good look.

I don’t mean literally. Most religions are archaic. Some of the shit in the literature would probably get a book banned if it was written today.

 

[B4Bear]

It’s not the racial issues that are being downplayed by the term “woke”, it’s the “pretentiousness” of the people pretending to care about legitimate social issues that is being ridiculed with the term “woke”.

Disagree with that. They use ‘woke’ to delegitimise anyone who shows a social conscience for a particular topic.

‘’For example, people who oppose the idea that men who attended rallies yesterday opposing sexual assault of women must be woke. They use this to deflect and defend the entrenched position by attacking from the flanks. Look at Pauline Hanson for their actual position on this subject.

Would rather be woke and not see my daughter subject to the likes of Porter and company than the alternative of spending the rest of my life in prison.

 

[Themanbun]

I don’t mean literally. Most religions are archaic. Some of the sh*t in the literature would probably get a book banned if it was written today.

Some parts feel archaic, other parts provide great learnings for today. Depends on what aspect you're looking at.

An example:

What feels more archaic?

An entire economic framework based upon the deserving and undeserving poor where people are starved into compliance with corporate and industrial norms, where diabetics die from lack of insulin, and at the other end that same system rewards economic sociopathy with billions.

OR

Muhammad (PBUH) demanding his followers feed the poor and hungry, or the various teachings of Jesus which promise heavenly reward for those who sacrifice riches and care for the poor, sick, hungry.

----

Now of course, that's highly cherry picked. And you don't need to look hard to pick some things from the Bible or Quran that look pretty archaic in today's world. And of course we have the institutional issues that B4Bear alluded to.

But to just completely dismiss religion as having no place in the modern world, a world that is less religious than ever yet grows ever more cruel (well, arguably), is incredibly short sighted in my opinion - not to mention the intangible spiritual benefit it provides billions of people, something that the material world in front of us just can't address.

My experience with fellow Christians and Muslims is that they are some of the most caring people I've ever met. My Muslim friends are the first to reach out a hand when I'm down, and they bloody back it up, not just empty platitudes. That comes directly from their religious learnings. They mobilise and help their mates out. If you're starving, they'll bring you food. Individualism is rife these days and they don't want a bar of it. Most of my a-religious (?) friends wouldn't even think twice if they walked passed a homeless bloke hacking his guts up on a street corner.

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Anyway, that's a bit of a long winded rant. But I get concerned when people go from 'yeah [insert X religious institution] should be held accountable for crimes' (which I absolutely agree) to 'burn em all to the ground because they're archaic and sometimes disagree with ever evolving cultural values'.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Is Ayaan Hirsi Ali on the left?

She was voted into the Dutch House of Reps as a centre-right candidate in 2003 and left office in 2006 after alleged citizenship issues.

 

[Mr_Nyah]

Disagree with that. They use ‘woke’ to delegitimise anyone who shows a social conscience for a particular topic.

‘’For example, people who oppose the idea that men who attended rallies yesterday opposing sexual assault of women must be woke. They use this to deflect and defend the entrenched position by attacking from the flanks. Look at Pauline Hanson for their actual position on this subject.

Would rather be woke and not see my daughter subject to the likes of Porter and company than the alternative of spending the rest of my life in prison.

I agree with your assessment of how people have tried to change and distort what “woke” means. I was referring to the original context of the word. Now, it’s just used as a throwaway for anyone left of centre that doesn’t agree with anyone right of centre.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Don't do it dude, don't get actively dumber.

Fwiw the left have been the biggest opponents of Islam there are.

Who was it that volunteered to fight with the Kurds against Daesh?

Not fat Craig Kelly wannabe dipshits in Australia, it was ultra "woke" lefties from Europe and the US.

Generally, because they are more secular than those on the right.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

For example?

Intellectual left-leaning critics?

Sam Harris, but I'm not too familiar with him or his writings.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Is woke the new "pc gone mad"?
It's been flanderized like nothing I've seen

The term has been bastardized beyond anything and completely lacks nuance. It is easier to concentrate on particular individual theories or strands of thought.

 

[Del191229]

Just found it funny tbh. It was also upvoted by 6,447 people.

That "save the gay whales" thing is as old as the hills though, kind of my point about "woke" not meaning anything.

Glenn Robbins was taking the piss out of that in the 80s.

 

[Del191229]

I don’t mean literally. Most religions are archaic. Some of the sh*t in the literature would probably get a book banned if it was written today.

Yeah, the Old Testament and the Koran have huge sections which are basically accounts of localised genocides done in the name of God.

And instructions on how to do them.

 

[Del191229]

Generally, because they are generally more secular than those on the right.

Saddam and Bashar Al Assad the most effective anti-jihadi leaders ever.

Both run/ran the only nominally Muslim regimes that would be recognisable to us in the West as somewhere you'd want to live.

 

[Ligma]

I see many christians use their religion as an excuse to be a bigoted pos.

“My bible says being gay is a sin” um no Mary nothing in the bible says being other than straight is a sin.

They pick and choose out of the bible to fuel their own hate and prejudice. Hypocritical actually as they probably wear mixed fabrics and allow women to speak as that’s not allowed.

I also find it hilarious as I came across a video on tiktok about this conservative saying “if you get an abortion you should get the death penalty” like umm that’s not very pro life of you[emoji88] I seriously cannot take them seriously

ALSO conservatives love the 1st amendment but as soon as someone else uses the amendment to sit during the anthem, oh no they make a huge fuss.

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[Kangaroos4eva]

There was and remains an interesting discussion around feminism (who I'm sure is counted in the wokism spectrum) and Islam too. Might be wrong here, but I seem to remember that Western feminists actually got criticised by some Muslim women for imposing Western feminism standards on women in Muslim countries, who argued that what they in fact needed was allies and change needed to come from within. I think this was like mid-2000s when the anti-Muslim rhetoric was at its peak.

It is an interesting discussion re feminism and Islam in the context you described. I follow Masih Alinejad, an Iranian political activist, on twitter and she is able to put up videos on the battles that local Iranian women have in overturning the forced hijab laws and other harsh laws in Iran. There are constant battles over rights within Iranian/Muslim feminism and then there's the context you described, which is still happening today, but to a far less degree than it used to be.

 

[Ligma]

Just going a bit off topic but the amount of fragile boys there are on tiktok is astounding.

They make the most misogynistic jokes then as soon as a women makes a joke about the military or something about them, they turn into snowflakes.

It’s freaking hilarious seeing them having a sook over a joke


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[LuvtheKangas]

Urban dictionary also defines emo as emu spelt incorrectly

I really get the feeling it's at the point now where people who hold extreme left wing views are deemed "woke" and then anyone who defends the tiniest part of their viewpoint is deemed "part of the woke crowd"
Which is silly. It's like calling anybody who supports the right to bear arms a redneck.

You just love your guns, don't you, redneck?

 

[Caracas]

It’s not the racial issues that are being downplayed by the term “woke”, it’s the “pretentiousness” of the people pretending to care about legitimate social issues that is being ridiculed with the term “woke”.

I’m talking about what it originally meant to the black community before it got hijacked. At least, with jazz, the blues and rap, the hijackers are “trying”.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Mr_Nyah]

Urban dictionary also defines emo as emu spelt incorrectly

I really get the feeling it's at the point now where people who hold extreme left wing views are deemed "woke" and then anyone who defends the tiniest part of their viewpoint is deemed "part of the woke crowd"
Which is silly. It's like calling anybody who supports the right to bear arms a redneck.

Brett Allison agrees, anyone with bare arms is a redneck.

 

[Mr_Nyah]

I’m talking about what it originally meant to the black community before it got hijacked. At least, with jazz, the blues and rap, the hijackers are “trying”.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

I feel like this whooshed me and I don’t know why haha

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Just going a bit off topic but the amount of fragile boys there are on tiktok is astounding.

They make the most misogynistic jokes then as soon as a women makes a joke about the military or something about them, they turn into snowflakes.

It’s freaking hilarious seeing them having a soon over a joke


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Never been on the platform. I have heard it is not the nicest place for young ladies.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Saddam and Bashar Al Assad the most effective anti-jihadi leaders ever.

Both run/ran the only nominally Muslim regimes that would be recognisable to us in the West as somewhere you'd want to live.

As bad as he is, Assad’s regime is the best chance for long-term stability in Syria atm. The devil you know. Turkey, the US or Israel cannot provide the same stability.

 

[Ligma]

Never been on the platform. I have heard it is not the nicest place for young ladies.

Definitely not. Especially when someone is trying to come out with their sexual assault story all the boys come out and say “proof” or “well men get falsely accused, I bet she is lying” it’s honestly so toxic.


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[krakouers]

That's meaningless though.

I could go to the urban dictionary too and write some crap.

(typing...)
Campaigner

Definition: Supports *

 

[Caracas]

I feel like this whooshed me and I don’t know why haha

Yeah, it was pretty tenuous. I just went with it and got carried away.


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[SpiderBurton22]

Definitely not. Especially when someone is trying to come out with their sexual assault story all the boys come out and say “proof” or “well men get falsely accused, I bet she is lying” it’s honestly so toxic.


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Sounds familiar, may have heard these replies around here too.

 

[AnEmptyChair]

It is an interesting discussion re feminism and Islam in the context you described. I follow Masih Alinejad, an Iranian political activist, on twitter and she is able to put up videos on the battles that local Iranian women have in overturning the forced hijab laws and other harsh laws in Iran. There are constant battles over rights within Iranian/Muslim feminism and then there's the context you described, which is still happening today, but to a far less degree than it used to be.

Yeah, I remember in one of my undergrad IR units we were having a discussion about this and a girl wearing hijab spoke passionately about how it was an expression of her faith and while she identified as a Muslim feminist and supported feminist action in the Middle East (I think she was Iraqi herself maybe) she resented it being presented as a dichotomy where she had to choose between her rights as a woman and her faith.