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Play Nice Random Chat Thread VI

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I'm not necessarily a fan of Fraser but he did show political courage when he championed a regional solution to the boat people who were fleeing Vietnam. (Although back then the Liberal and Labor parties were openly anti racism and pro racial tolerance. The Liberal party ended the White Australia policy and drove the 1967 referendum. The ALP under Whitlam began the land rights program and Fraser carried it on without question. That was the trend in the country till Hanson came along.)

What real courage have our leaders shown since? Howard with gun control? Maybe? Gillard's ETS? Maybe? Rudd's mining tax? Maybe but it seemed like a bit of a stunt following his other emissions related failures.

Considering the challenges we've faced since the turn of the century that's fu** all gutsy politics.
That's a mischaracterisation of refugee history in Australia. The Hanson trend was in place long before Hanson. Fraser's position was largely accepted by the Australian public at that time, the idea of it being courageous is probably an anachronism based on subsequent attitudes in the 1980s.

In April 1976 five Vietnamese men arrived in Darwin, having set out from Vietnam in February. They had been resupplied at various ports throughout SE Asia on the condition that they keep moving. By the end of 1979 more than 2000 people had arrived by boat in Australia. A trickle (less than 50) of arrivals would come over the next two years before ceasing all together in 1982, when conditions had largely settled in Vietnam.

Unauthorised boat arrivals clearly followed the fall of Saigon and there was a feeling among politicians and Australians generally that we had been fighting against their persecutors ourselves only months earlier and were therefore dutybound to take in these refugees. The Australian legislative framework was also not equipped to deal with the situation; at that time the Migration Act really only considered unauthorised arrivals from the perspective of stowaways. The arrivals were held in loose detention and had their refugee claims processed quickly

The "regional solution", if that's what it was, was heavily pushed by the other ASEAN nations, who had 200,000 boat arrivals in 1979 alone. None of those nations were signatories to the Refugee Convention (and still aren't). The Orderly Departure Program that came out of negotiations handled by the UNHCR saw Australia, the US and Canada agree to take 260,000 refugees. Refugee status was determined by group identity, leading to perceptions that many were economic or non-genuine refugees.

This was the beginning of the concept of the "queue-jumper": the ODP established a supposed method of "orderly departure" and even those who arrived via this method had their refugee credentials questioned. How much worse then must be the people who evaded the queue?

The second wave of unauthorised boat arrivals lasted from 1989-1998 and saw about 3,000 arrivals from Vietnam, Cambodia and southern China. Once again ASEAN nations pushed for a solution and the successor to the ODP was the Comprehensive Plan of Action. This time refugee status would be assessed on an individual basis by the ASEAN states. This was obviously problematic, given that none of these states are signatories to the Refugee Convention, and the assessments were beset by accusations that they began with the assumption the refugees were non-genuine and due process was not followed. If the ODP was the creation of the concept of the "queue-jumper", the CPA set the foundations for offshore processing and the outsourcing of Australia's obligations under the Refugee Convention.

The Migration Act still had not been updated, but these second-wave arrivals were detained much longer than those in the 1970s. Indeed, the act only allowed them to be detained for 14 days after the departure of their arriving vessel. In 1992, arrivals from 1989 were still in detention and the Australian government was about to face court action. Their boats had been burned, and it appeared likely the court would find that the detention was therefore illegal. The Keating government hastily amended the Migration Act and it was at this point that mandatory detention of unauthorised boat arrivals in Australia came into law. At the time it was to be limited to 9 months, but later amendments, still under Labor, changed this to indefinite mandatory detention.

Of course policies would become even more draconian by the time of the third wave of unauthorised arrivals from 1999-2001 (12,000 arrivals mostly from Iran, Iraq and Afghanistan). But immigration policy in Australia has been very much characterised by bipartisanship, despite coalition attempts to wedge Labor on the issue. The coalition supported Labor policies in opposition, and with very rare exceptions the ALP has supported coalition policies. The hardening of community attitudes to refugees, especially boat arrivals, can be seen since the beginning of the 1980s.
 
Meh, I wonder if Andy Meddick of the animal justice party will get his ban on hunting bows passed now..

Here's a You Tube video that nails that one.

 
How would you interpret a dress code of 'comfortable and neat smart casual' at a new workplace? Would a more casual long-sleeve button shirt in a neutral colour (ie black/sand/tan), chinos and some lace-up chelsea-style boots be appropriate, do you think?
 

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Closer to home,
Both these incidences are suspected po po operations to demonise protestors. The guy in the video allegedly an actor named aleksandar lakic. There’s videos online of all the protestors, basically asking the guy to get help.

and there’s no way they’re walking Sutton passed protestors, without doing it on purpose. It’ll be first drop on the news, to get an emotive response.

Do you have any evidence for this position.

It might simply be Sutton telling the world that he is not going to be intimidated by the sub-normal anti-vaxxer crowd.

Good on him for not bowing to the mob.
 
Do you have any evidence for this position.

It might simply be Sutton telling the world that he is not going to be intimidated by the sub-normal anti-vaxxer crowd.

Good on him for not bowing to the mob.
If he was showing he wasn’t going to be intimidated, he wouldn’t have surrounded by the coppers as he walked down the steps.

The cameras would’ve been reactionary, not pointing at the door, as he walked out.

btw what’s with the sub-normal/human continuation??
You already past the dehumanising stage.
 
If he was showing he wasn’t going to be intimidated, he wouldn’t have surrounded by the coppers as he walked down the steps.

The cameras would’ve been reactionary, not pointing at the door as he walked out.
So no evidence then, got it.

Not being intimidated does not mean you take physical risks by putting yourself in physical danger from the mob.

What do you want? Wait for him to be bashed, or worse before you condemn the 'protestors'?

The very same type that have so far rioted, attacked and hospitalised police officers.
 
So no evidence then, got it.

Not being intimidated does not mean you take physical risks by putting yourself in physical danger from the mob.

What do you want? Wait for him to be bashed, or worse before you condemn the 'protestors'?

The very same type that have so far rioted, attacked and hospitalised police officers.
Huh, the only violence from my side is in your head.. I don’t want anyone hurt.
Ive been pretty consistent on that fact.
 
Huh, the only violence from my side is in your head.. I don’t want anyone hurt.
Ive been pretty consistent on that fact.
Victoria police should have deployed riot squad to ‘horrific’ anti-lockdown protest, union says | Coronavirus | The Guardian

The Police Association of Victoria secretary, Wayne Gatt, described the rally as “horrific” and said 10 police were injured with six taken to hospital.

I am not talking about you as an individual.

But the only violence that has led to hospitalisation is by the anti-vaxxer crowd.

Were you asleep?
 
Victoria police should have deployed riot squad to ‘horrific’ anti-lockdown protest, union says | Coronavirus | The Guardian

The Police Association of Victoria secretary, Wayne Gatt, described the rally as “horrific” and said 10 police were injured with six taken to hospital.

I am not talking about you as an individual.

But the only violence that has led to hospitalisation is by the anti-vaxxer crowd.

Were you asleep?
wasn’t this line directed at me?
‘What do you want? Wait for him to be bashed, or worse before you condemn the 'protestors'?’
 
How would you interpret a dress code of 'comfortable and neat smart casual' at a new workplace? Would a more casual long-sleeve button shirt in a neutral colour (ie black/sand/tan), chinos and some lace-up chelsea-style boots be appropriate, do you think?
it means: wear what you want, just make sure its clean and ironed.
 
wasn’t this line directed at me?
‘What do you want? Wait for him to be bashed, or worse before you condemn the 'protestors'?’
It was a rebuttal to your assertion that because he was surrounded by the police, " If he was showing he wasn’t going to be intimidated, he wouldn’t have surrounded by the coppers as he walked down the steps." that he was effectively being intimidated.

My assertion is that the protestors have shown a propensity for attacking police, health care workers and those that oppose them, he is being prudent by being protected by the police.

I am claiming that you assertion that this is a 'photo op' type situation has no evidence to back it up.
 
It was a rebuttal to your assertion that because he was surrounded by the police, " If he was showing he wasn’t going to be intimidated, he wouldn’t have surrounded by the coppers as he walked down the steps." that he was effectively being intimidated.

My assertion is that the protestors have shown a propensity for attacking police, health care workers and those that oppose them, he is being prudent by being protected by the police.

I am claiming that you assertion that this is a 'photo op' type situation has no evidence to back it up.
Accept the fact he doesn’t regularly walk down the steps of parliament, there’s many more ways out of the place that doesn’t require him to walk past people, who in your words have a propensity to attack people.

only happened to do it, when there was a large protest last Saturday and an even bigger one planned for next Saturday. It was a photo op.

and to repeat I don’t want anyone hurt.
 

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Accept the fact he doesn’t regularly walk down the steps of parliament, there’s many more ways out of the place that doesn’t require him to walk past people, who in your words have a propensity to attack people.

only happened to do it, when there was a large protest last Saturday and an even bigger one planned for next Saturday. It was a photo op.

and to repeat I don’t want anyone hurt.
And all I asked for was evidence.

Your assertion is how baseless conspiracy theories start, in your mind now, with zero evidence to support it he was staging a photo op.

By next week it will have morphed by others into him flipping the bird at protestors and the police having to rescue him.
 
And all I asked for was evidence.

Your assertion is how baseless conspiracy theories start, in your mind now, with zero evidence to support it he was staging a photo op.

By next week it will have morphed by others into him flipping the bird at protestors and the police having to rescue him.
Mate, youre answering your own question.
if he knew he camera crews were outside, he knew protestors were outside and he needed a police escort..
it was a photo op, that part is undeniable.
The question remains why?
 
Accept the fact he doesn’t regularly walk down the steps of parliament, there’s many more ways out of the place that doesn’t require him to walk past people, who in your words have a propensity to attack people.

only happened to do it, when there was a large protest last Saturday and an even bigger one planned for next Saturday. It was a photo op.

and to repeat I don’t want anyone hurt.
bloke should be able to leave at any exit he pleases regardless of the way he generally would. What sort of moron spends his day joining groups to hang out at public buildings and heckle public servants?.

Really disturbing take on all these subjects you have. given how everything seems to be a conspiracy, might just be easier to point out if there are actually any events that are actually as they seem?
 

If ever you want to get real deep into that there’s an awesome podcast on it. It gives it so much context in terms of where America was at at the time, ties into the great migration and then the redlining of African Americans, the black panther movement and the weathermen, just to give a historical understanding of why John Jones was such a lure for the downtrodden. Most comprehensive history on the subject I’ve ever heard.


Edit-I should add people don’t like the host because of his politics (he can be a bit of a troll on Twitter) but it doesn’t come into his podcasts at all.
 
If ever you want to get real deep into that there’s an awesome podcast on it. It gives it so much context in terms of where America was at at the time, ties into the great migration and then the redlining of African Americans, the black panther movement and the weathermen, just to give a historical understanding of why John Jones was such a lure for the downtrodden. Most comprehensive history on the subject I’ve ever heard.


Edit-I should add people don’t like the host because of his politics (he can be a bit of a troll on Twitter) but it doesn’t come into his podcasts at all.
The martyr made podcasts are brilliant. The foundation of modern Israel were eye opening.
 

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Accept the fact he doesn’t regularly walk down the steps of parliament

You just made that up.

Politicians and public servants walk out that exit all the time.
 
And all I asked for was evidence.

Your assertion is how baseless conspiracy theories start, in your mind now, with zero evidence to support it he was staging a photo op.

By next week it will have morphed by others into him flipping the bird at protestors and the police having to rescue him.

"Accept the fact" he just made up lol.
 
The martyr made podcasts are brilliant. The foundation of modern Israel were eye opening.

They’re all fantastic. The one on Israel is probably his best. Man that opening when he reads an account Jewish of a Jewish lady in amongst bodies is rough. I like how he puts so much context in. He’s got a nice little one with Jocko called the thread which is worth listening to as well.

Knowing what I believe are you’re political leanings I think you’d be put off by his Twitter stuff so best to not go there lol.
 
Yes they do, not so much when there’s a irate mob out the front..

There's regularly protests out the front of parliament.

Stop digging, take the L here
 
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