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Neil Young was backing these medical professionals

An Open Letter to Spotify: A call from the global scientific and medical communities to implement a misinformation policy

On Dec. 31, 2021, the Joe Rogan Experience (JRE), a Spotify-exclusive podcast, uploaded a highly controversial episode featuring guest Dr. Robert Malone (#1757). The episode has been criticized for promoting baseless conspiracy theories and the JRE has a concerning history of broadcasting misinformation, particularly regarding the COVID-19 pandemic. By allowing the propagation of false and societally harmful assertions, Spotify is enabling its hosted media to damage public trust in scientific research and sow doubt in the credibility of data-driven guidance offered by medical professionals. JRE #1757 is not the only transgression to occur on the Spotify platform, but a relevant example of the platform’s failure to mitigate the damage it is causing.

We are a coalition of scientists, medical professionals, professors, and science communicators spanning a wide range of fields such as microbiology, immunology, epidemiology, and neuroscience and we are calling on Spotify to take action against the mass-misinformation events which continue to occur on its platform. With an estimated 11 million listeners per episode, JRE is the world’s largest podcast and has tremendous influence. Though Spotify has a responsibility to mitigate the spread of misinformation on its platform, the company presently has no misinformation policy.

Throughout the COVID-19 pandemic, Joe Rogan has repeatedly spread misleading and false claims on his podcast, provoking distrust in science and medicine. He has discouraged vaccination in young people and children, incorrectly claimed that mRNA vaccines are “gene therapy,” promoted off-label use of ivermectin to treat COVID-19 (contrary to FDA warnings), and spread a number of unsubstantiated conspiracy theories. In episode #1757,
Rogan hosted Dr. Robert Malone, who was suspended from Twitter for spreading misinformation about COVID-19. Dr. Malone used the JRE platform to further promote numerous baseless claims, including several falsehoods about COVID-19 vaccines and an unfounded theory that societal leaders have “hypnotized” the public. Many of these statements have already been discredited. Notably, Dr. Malone is one of two recent JRE guests who has compared pandemic policies to the Holocaust. These actions are not only objectionable and offensive, but also medically and culturally dangerous.

The average age of JRE listeners is 24 years old and according to data from Washington State, unvaccinated 12-34 year olds are 12 times more likely to be hospitalized with COVID than those who are fully vaccinated. Dr. Malone’s interview has reached many tens of millions of listeners vulnerable to predatory medical misinformation. Mass-misinformation events of this scale have extraordinarily dangerous ramifications. As scientists, we face backlash and resistance as the public grows to distrust our research and expertise. As educators and science communicators, we are tasked with repairing the public’s damaged understanding of science and medicine. As physicians, we bear the arduous weight of a pandemic that has stretched our medical systems to their limits and only stands to be exacerbated by the anti-vaccination sentiment woven into this and other episodes of Rogan’s podcast.

This is not only a scientific or medical concern; it is a sociological issue of devastating proportions and Spotify is responsible for allowing this activity to thrive on its platform. We, the undersigned doctors, nurses, scientists, and educators thus call on Spotify to immediately establish a clear and public policy to moderate misinformation on its platform.
 
Are you trying to undermine my stance on the topic by trying to make me out to be fanboying? It’s not that at all and it’s a pretty cheap shot at my integrity.

I just think it’s a gross overreaction purely due to his popularity. I’m just balancing it out. Neil Young doesn’t want to be on Spotify because of Joe Rogan, that’s fine it’s his choice.

I was just pointing out there are far worse things on Spotify then JRE. There’s literally murderers that brag about what they’ve done, but Young is fine with that. There’s people that encourage raping and then killing the victim but Young is fine with that.

But Young draws the line at someone who has conversations with doctors and scientists, from both sides of the spectrum of covid content?

Would it be better if Joe went all CNN or Fox and only has guests from one side of the isle?
No I am just having a laugh because I would do the same about Megan Thee Stallion and Nicki Minaj 💦 they are better than him anyways

Let’s take a big deep breath, maybe one day he will kiss you Val.
 
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Neil Young was backing these medical professionals

An Open Letter to Spotify: A call from the global scientific and medical communities to implement a misinformation policy

On Dec. 31, 2021, the Joe Rogan Experience (JRE), a Spotify-exclusive podcast, uploaded a highly controversial episode featuring guest Dr. Robert Malone (#1757). The episode has been criticized for promoting baseless conspiracy theories and the JRE has a concerning history of broadcasting misinformation, particularly regarding the COVID-19 pandemic. By allowing the propagation of false and societally harmful assertions, Spotify is enabling its hosted media to damage public trust in scientific research and sow doubt in the credibility of data-driven guidance offered by medical professionals. JRE #1757 is not the only transgression to occur on the Spotify platform, but a relevant example of the platform’s failure to mitigate the damage it is causing.

We are a coalition of scientists, medical professionals, professors, and science communicators spanning a wide range of fields such as microbiology, immunology, epidemiology, and neuroscience and we are calling on Spotify to take action against the mass-misinformation events which continue to occur on its platform. With an estimated 11 million listeners per episode, JRE is the world’s largest podcast and has tremendous influence. Though Spotify has a responsibility to mitigate the spread of misinformation on its platform, the company presently has no misinformation policy.

Throughout the COVID-19 pandemic, Joe Rogan has repeatedly spread misleading and false claims on his podcast, provoking distrust in science and medicine. He has discouraged vaccination in young people and children, incorrectly claimed that mRNA vaccines are “gene therapy,” promoted off-label use of ivermectin to treat COVID-19 (contrary to FDA warnings), and spread a number of unsubstantiated conspiracy theories. In episode #1757,
Rogan hosted Dr. Robert Malone, who was suspended from Twitter for spreading misinformation about COVID-19. Dr. Malone used the JRE platform to further promote numerous baseless claims, including several falsehoods about COVID-19 vaccines and an unfounded theory that societal leaders have “hypnotized” the public. Many of these statements have already been discredited. Notably, Dr. Malone is one of two recent JRE guests who has compared pandemic policies to the Holocaust. These actions are not only objectionable and offensive, but also medically and culturally dangerous.

The average age of JRE listeners is 24 years old and according to data from Washington State, unvaccinated 12-34 year olds are 12 times more likely to be hospitalized with COVID than those who are fully vaccinated. Dr. Malone’s interview has reached many tens of millions of listeners vulnerable to predatory medical misinformation. Mass-misinformation events of this scale have extraordinarily dangerous ramifications. As scientists, we face backlash and resistance as the public grows to distrust our research and expertise. As educators and science communicators, we are tasked with repairing the public’s damaged understanding of science and medicine. As physicians, we bear the arduous weight of a pandemic that has stretched our medical systems to their limits and only stands to be exacerbated by the anti-vaccination sentiment woven into this and other episodes of Rogan’s podcast.

This is not only a scientific or medical concern; it is a sociological issue of devastating proportions and Spotify is responsible for allowing this activity to thrive on its platform. We, the undersigned doctors, nurses, scientists, and educators thus call on Spotify to immediately establish a clear and public policy to moderate misinformation on its platform.
Bingo
 
Neil Young was backing these medical professionals

An Open Letter to Spotify: A call from the global scientific and medical communities to implement a misinformation policy

On Dec. 31, 2021, the Joe Rogan Experience (JRE), a Spotify-exclusive podcast, uploaded a highly controversial episode featuring guest Dr. Robert Malone (#1757). The episode has been criticized for promoting baseless conspiracy theories and the JRE has a concerning history of broadcasting misinformation, particularly regarding the COVID-19 pandemic. By allowing the propagation of false and societally harmful assertions, Spotify is enabling its hosted media to damage public trust in scientific research and sow doubt in the credibility of data-driven guidance offered by medical professionals. JRE #1757 is not the only transgression to occur on the Spotify platform, but a relevant example of the platform’s failure to mitigate the damage it is causing.

We are a coalition of scientists, medical professionals, professors, and science communicators spanning a wide range of fields such as microbiology, immunology, epidemiology, and neuroscience and we are calling on Spotify to take action against the mass-misinformation events which continue to occur on its platform. With an estimated 11 million listeners per episode, JRE is the world’s largest podcast and has tremendous influence. Though Spotify has a responsibility to mitigate the spread of misinformation on its platform, the company presently has no misinformation policy.

Throughout the COVID-19 pandemic, Joe Rogan has repeatedly spread misleading and false claims on his podcast, provoking distrust in science and medicine. He has discouraged vaccination in young people and children, incorrectly claimed that mRNA vaccines are “gene therapy,” promoted off-label use of ivermectin to treat COVID-19 (contrary to FDA warnings), and spread a number of unsubstantiated conspiracy theories. In episode #1757,
Rogan hosted Dr. Robert Malone, who was suspended from Twitter for spreading misinformation about COVID-19. Dr. Malone used the JRE platform to further promote numerous baseless claims, including several falsehoods about COVID-19 vaccines and an unfounded theory that societal leaders have “hypnotized” the public. Many of these statements have already been discredited. Notably, Dr. Malone is one of two recent JRE guests who has compared pandemic policies to the Holocaust. These actions are not only objectionable and offensive, but also medically and culturally dangerous.

The average age of JRE listeners is 24 years old and according to data from Washington State, unvaccinated 12-34 year olds are 12 times more likely to be hospitalized with COVID than those who are fully vaccinated. Dr. Malone’s interview has reached many tens of millions of listeners vulnerable to predatory medical misinformation. Mass-misinformation events of this scale have extraordinarily dangerous ramifications. As scientists, we face backlash and resistance as the public grows to distrust our research and expertise. As educators and science communicators, we are tasked with repairing the public’s damaged understanding of science and medicine. As physicians, we bear the arduous weight of a pandemic that has stretched our medical systems to their limits and only stands to be exacerbated by the anti-vaccination sentiment woven into this and other episodes of Rogan’s podcast.

This is not only a scientific or medical concern; it is a sociological issue of devastating proportions and Spotify is responsible for allowing this activity to thrive on its platform. We, the undersigned doctors, nurses, scientists, and educators thus call on Spotify to immediately establish a clear and public policy to moderate misinformation on its platform.


The best was when 200+ “doctors” wrote a letter condemning Rogan and you get down the bottom and it’s like padded out with vets, nurses, students etc. wouldn’t be surprised if there was chiropractors in there lol.

Edit- just had a look. Of the 270 people that signed the letter only 100 were medical doctors.
 
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Neil Young was backing these medical professionals

An Open Letter to Spotify: A call from the global scientific and medical communities to implement a misinformation policy

On Dec. 31, 2021, the Joe Rogan Experience (JRE), a Spotify-exclusive podcast, uploaded a highly controversial episode featuring guest Dr. Robert Malone (#1757). The episode has been criticized for promoting baseless conspiracy theories and the JRE has a concerning history of broadcasting misinformation, particularly regarding the COVID-19 pandemic. By allowing the propagation of false and societally harmful assertions, Spotify is enabling its hosted media to damage public trust in scientific research and sow doubt in the credibility of data-driven guidance offered by medical professionals. JRE #1757 is not the only transgression to occur on the Spotify platform, but a relevant example of the platform’s failure to mitigate the damage it is causing.

We are a coalition of scientists, medical professionals, professors, and science communicators spanning a wide range of fields such as microbiology, immunology, epidemiology, and neuroscience and we are calling on Spotify to take action against the mass-misinformation events which continue to occur on its platform. With an estimated 11 million listeners per episode, JRE is the world’s largest podcast and has tremendous influence. Though Spotify has a responsibility to mitigate the spread of misinformation on its platform, the company presently has no misinformation policy.

Throughout the COVID-19 pandemic, Joe Rogan has repeatedly spread misleading and false claims on his podcast, provoking distrust in science and medicine. He has discouraged vaccination in young people and children, incorrectly claimed that mRNA vaccines are “gene therapy,” promoted off-label use of ivermectin to treat COVID-19 (contrary to FDA warnings), and spread a number of unsubstantiated conspiracy theories. In episode #1757,
Rogan hosted Dr. Robert Malone, who was suspended from Twitter for spreading misinformation about COVID-19. Dr. Malone used the JRE platform to further promote numerous baseless claims, including several falsehoods about COVID-19 vaccines and an unfounded theory that societal leaders have “hypnotized” the public. Many of these statements have already been discredited. Notably, Dr. Malone is one of two recent JRE guests who has compared pandemic policies to the Holocaust. These actions are not only objectionable and offensive, but also medically and culturally dangerous.

The average age of JRE listeners is 24 years old and according to data from Washington State, unvaccinated 12-34 year olds are 12 times more likely to be hospitalized with COVID than those who are fully vaccinated. Dr. Malone’s interview has reached many tens of millions of listeners vulnerable to predatory medical misinformation. Mass-misinformation events of this scale have extraordinarily dangerous ramifications. As scientists, we face backlash and resistance as the public grows to distrust our research and expertise. As educators and science communicators, we are tasked with repairing the public’s damaged understanding of science and medicine. As physicians, we bear the arduous weight of a pandemic that has stretched our medical systems to their limits and only stands to be exacerbated by the anti-vaccination sentiment woven into this and other episodes of Rogan’s podcast.

This is not only a scientific or medical concern; it is a sociological issue of devastating proportions and Spotify is responsible for allowing this activity to thrive on its platform. We, the undersigned doctors, nurses, scientists, and educators thus call on Spotify to immediately establish a clear and public policy to moderate misinformation on its platform.
This is ****ed up.

Misinformation is the unintentional presentation of incorrect info as fact. IE They are wrong but they are acting in good faith.

The only appropriate response is to counter it with accurate information and forbearance. Not the rabid intolerence we see here in this letter, in this thread and in the general population.

People are acting as if this is disinformation which is specifically the spreading of false information as a form of deliberate propaganda.

Censoring misinformation is a stupid thing to do. It happens all the time. There has been misinformation spread by pro vaccination people on this thread. The CDC has been accused of spreading misinformation by people who are pro vaccines and certainly pro modern medicine etc etc.

To the point where a reasonable discussion is almost impossible.

Moderate misinfo?

Like all misinformation?

What about religious podcasts?

In fact what is accurate information is a contentious issue in circumstances like this.

Furthermore, and funnily enough, this letter itself has misinformation in it.

The average age of JRE listeners is 24 years old and according to data from Washington State, unvaccinated 12-34 year olds are 12 times more likely to be hospitalized with COVID than those who are fully vaccinated.

From that letter.

According to the link behind the word "data" 12-34 year olds are 5 times more likely to end up in hospital.

Not 12.

COVID-19 hospitalization rates among 12-34 year-old individuals are 5 timeshigher in the unvaccinated population than in the fully vaccinated population (Page 7 if you're looking for it.)

That is farcical.

Whinge about misinformation by pushing more misinformation. Are you serious?

(Assuming it is an honest mistake. People are calling for the use of psy-ops to counter antivaxxers now. The Financial Times published an editorial/opinion piece about it. Psy ops are, by definition, forms of disinformation. But i'll give them the benefit of the doubt and assume it was an honest mistake.)
 
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BTW about those hospitalisation rates. The data reckons its less than 25 hospitalisations (over 7 days) per 100,000 unvaccinated people and that would mean about 5 per 100, 000 vaxxed. At least from looking at it and trying to line up the numbers on the graph.

So if you're between 12 and 34 and unvaccinated you have a 99, 975 in 100,000 chance of not going to hospital. (For 7+ days, from COVID.)

And if you're vaccinated you have a 99, 995 chance in 100, 000 chance of not going to hospital. (For 7+ days, from COVID.)
 
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I think the following is a pretty good read regardless of what you think of Rogan. Read it a few weeks ago, seems relevant here now.
 
BTW about those hospitalisation rates. The data reckons its less than 25 hospitalisations (over 7 days) per 100,000 unvaccinated people and that would mean about 5 per 100, 000 vaxxed. At least from looking at it and trying to line up the numbers on the graph.

So if you're between 12 and 34 and unvaccinated you have a 99, 975 in 100,000 chance of not going to hospital. (For 7+ days, from COVID.)

And if you're vaccinated you have a 99, 995 chance in 100, 000 chance of not going to hospital. (For 7+ days, from COVID.)

The data in the graphs are just over 7 days, not 7 days from Covid. The data in the table is over a 27 day period.
 
Here’s another fun Spotify podcast. Sammy “the Bull” Gravano who has killed at least 19 people working for the mob.

Where’s the outrage? Fascinating podcast btw. But the man is a stone cold murderer and doesn’t regret a thing and speaks glowingly about the mafia.



Very very good point mate.
 

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Are you trying to undermine my stance on the topic by trying to make me out to be fanboying? It’s not that at all and it’s a pretty cheap shot at my integrity.

I just think it’s a gross overreaction purely due to his popularity. I’m just balancing it out. Neil Young doesn’t want to be on Spotify because of Joe Rogan, that’s fine it’s his choice.

I was just pointing out there are far worse things on Spotify then JRE. There’s literally murderers that brag about what they’ve done, but Young is fine with that. There’s people that encourage raping and then killing the victim but Young is fine with that.

But Young draws the line at someone who has conversations with doctors and scientists, from both sides of the spectrum of covid content?

Would it be better if Joe went all CNN or Fox and only has guests from one side of the isle?

I don't know if I'd say Young is "fine with that". Insisting people be perfect because they take one stance is a bit off.

Young has very specific issue with vaccination due to his own personal history - polio as a kid before the vaccine was available, which had a lifelong impact.

That's why he's so enraged about this issue.

But my God, with the bullshit and lies that are fed daily to us through "traditional media", including the debasement of the once glorious 730 into a show pushing Leigh Sales' personal politics, singling Joe Rogan out is a bit rich for mine.

I've never listened to a second of Rogan, but from what I understand saying he's somehow "worse" than the shit being dribbled out of mainstream media is just laughable.

He's competition to them, and they're jealous of his $100m deal.
 
I don't know if I'd say Young is "fine with that". Insisting people be perfect because they take one stance is a bit off.

Young has very specific issue with vaccination due to his own personal history - polio as a kid before the vaccine was available, which had a lifelong impact.

That's why he's so enraged about this issue.

But my God, with the bullshit and lies that are fed daily to us through "traditional media", including the debasement of the once glorious 730 into a show pushing Leigh Sales' personal politics, singling Joe Rogan out is a bit rich for mine.

I've never listened to a second of Rogan, but from what I understand saying he's somehow "worse" than the sh*t being dribbled out of mainstream media is just laughable.

He's competition to them, and they're jealous of his $100m deal.


There’s definitely an element of trying to bring him down because he’s smashing them in the ratings and especially after he destroyed cnn by showing how much they bend the truth.

The Young situation is just funny because they were never going to side with Young. I don’t know if NY is blinded by his ego or he just didn’t care about being removed from there.

Rogan still has episodes on Apple and his channel is up on YouTube so if he was fair dinkum he’d put the same ultimatum to them. I wonder if NY has a new album coming out or a tour or something and he’s just trying to get some publicity.
 
There’s definitely an element of trying to bring him down because he’s smashing them in the ratings and especially after he destroyed cnn by showing how much they bend the truth.

The Young situation is just funny because they were never going to side with Young. I don’t know if NY is blinded by his ego or he just didn’t care about being removed from there.

Rogan still has episodes on Apple and his channel is up on YouTube so if he was fair dinkum he’d put the same ultimatum to them. I wonder if NY has a new album coming out or a tour or something and he’s just trying to get some publicity.

Young is worth hundreds of millions.

And would be making shit from Spotify, he can afford to take the stance.

FWIW - good on Neil for making this personal stand. It is something that has directly impacted his life - vaccination - so it certainly isn't "virtue signalling".
 
Young is worth hundreds of millions.

And would be making sh*t from Spotify, he can afford to take the stance.

FWIW - good on Neil for making this personal stand. It is something that has directly impacted his life - vaccination - so it certainly isn't "virtue signalling".


Fair enough. I personally think it’s a bit silly and it’ll have the opposite effect of what Young wanted. Every time something like this happens JRE number go through the roof.
 
Fair enough. I personally think it’s a bit silly and it’ll have the opposite effect of what Young wanted. Every time something like this happens JRE number go through the roof.

Depends.

If his aim was to harm Rogan, then yep.

But if he simply wanted to withdraw his product from that supplier because of Rogan, it has worked.

I mean, you can quit a job without convincing yourself the whole company will collapse without you.

That Spotify pays artists stuff all is the real issue here. They are happy to pay buttons to generational artist like Young, and splash $100m on what they hope is a generational voice like Rogan.
 
Depends.

If his aim was to harm Rogan, then yep.

But if he simply wanted to withdraw his product from that supplier because of Rogan, it has worked.

I mean, you can quit a job without convincing yourself the whole company will collapse without you.

That Spotify pays artists stuff all is the real issue here. They are happy to pay buttons to generational artist like Young, and splash $100m on what they hope is a generational voice like Rogan.


They brought Rogan over to grow their platform and it worked
 

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They brought Rogan over to grow their platform and it worked

Yep, genius move now, albeit Rogan to me has a bit of a flavour of the month feel.

Will he still be such a big deal in 2027?

Very possibly, but also very possibly not.
 
The data in the graphs are just over 7 days, not 7 days from Covid. The data in the table is over a 27 day period.
Do you mean like a seven day average case number of covid hospitalisations, not stays of more than 7 days from covid that imply a severe infection?

That means there is no way the unvaxxed hospital rate could be 12 times higher and its only severe cases that are five times higher and it was poorly written. Which was their only out, or the only way the signatories had to claim they weren't actually misinforming people themselves. Its definitely only five times higher.

The letter is still doing exactly what the people who signed it want Rogan moderated for.

They're no different to Rogan and Malone, altho Rogan at least has the excuse that he is just a comedian who can fight a bit not an expert by a long margin.
 
I don't know if I'd say Young is "fine with that". Insisting people be perfect because they take one stance is a bit off.

Young has very specific issue with vaccination due to his own personal history - polio as a kid before the vaccine was available, which had a lifelong impact.

That's why he's so enraged about this issue.

But my God, with the bullshit and lies that are fed daily to us through "traditional media", including the debasement of the once glorious 730 into a show pushing Leigh Sales' personal politics, singling Joe Rogan out is a bit rich for mine.

I've never listened to a second of Rogan, but from what I understand saying he's somehow "worse" than the sh*t being dribbled out of mainstream media is just laughable.

He's competition to them, and they're jealous of his $100m deal.
This is exactly right.

The only Rogan I've listened to was stuff that's posted here, usually by Val. I like the idea of what he does tho.

I get Young's stance too, but 20 years of repressed disappointment comes out in funny ways. I couldn't believe the guy who wrote Ohio would turn into a warmongering campaigner.

One of my favorite authors, Bob Wilson, also had polio as a kid. Was treated by what was considered a quack method at the time (the Sister Kenny method, more Australian innovation) and recovered well until he was in old age when he had to use a wheelchair. He probably would have preferred a vaccine too but the other treatment worked well enough to get him thru his life.

These days Elizabeth Kenny is loved and respected, people like Martin Sheen and Alan Alda credit her with their recoveries from polio.
 
Young is worth hundreds of millions.

And would be making sh*t from Spotify, he can afford to take the stance.

FWIW - good on Neil for making this personal stand. It is something that has directly impacted his life - vaccination - so it certainly isn't "virtue signalling".

I really don't think Neil expected Spotify to pull Rogan but he wanted to make a point and be heard.

He's also pulled his work from Spotify before so I really don't think he gives a shit about losing a mill or two by pulling his work again.
 
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