Play Nice Random Chat Thread VII

[Kangaroos techno]

I am surprised any government has allowed crypto, largely due to the anonymity of it. If government in general wasn't technologically backwards they probably would have put a stop to it before it got off the ground.

Why when they can put their hand out and get their slice of the pie too. It's getting harder to be anonymous and software that allows it is quickly banned or you're threatened.

At the end of the day i and many others can put our already taxed income in there and when we pull it out they can hold their hand out and say, "hey, you know that tech we don't really encourage and often smash the price because we say criminals use it and we may call it a security...well...declare all of it in your tax so we can take a cut off it. Thanks for playing"

No need to crush it when you can collect billions from people every year.

 

[Tas]

Why when they can put their hand out and get their slice of the pie too. It's getting harder to be anonymous and software that allows it is quickly banned or you're threatened.

At the end of the day i and many others can put our already taxed income in there and when we pull it out they can hold their hand out and say, "hey, you know that tech we don't really encourage and often smash the price because we say criminals use it and we may call it a security...well...declare all of it in your tax so we can take a cut off it. Thanks for playing"

No need to crush it when you can collect billions from people every year.

They don't even allow anonymous deposits into savings accounts, can't open an account without a million forms of ID, don't like people buying burner phones, part of it is taking their cut but generally governments don't like it when they can't trace transactions to anyone or spy on their communications.

 

[Makeshift Park]

Well yeah, the whole crypto thing is basically one big AML/CTF nightmare.

 

[Val Keating]

Well, Putin is worth around $70b, you can take a wild guess and figure out someone who has only ever worked for the government is a thief when he is worth $70b.

He’s probably worth more than that.

 

[Kangaroos techno]

They don't even allow anonymous deposits into savings accounts, can't open an account without a million forms of ID, don't like people buying burner phones, part of it is taking their cut but generally governments don't like it when they can't trace transactions to anyone or spy on their communications.

For sure. A decentralised on/off ramp would be interesting. But governments would come down hard on it if it ever got off the ground. Best you can do now is localbitcoins (peer2peer) sale but obviously that comes with huge risks. Governments have gotten a lot better at tracking transactions and even catching up with hackers/bad actors (bruno block is a good example. He was an anon everywhere and the US government caught up with him eventually) and for that reason I think the benefits for them outweigh the negatives (for now anyway).

Westpac invested in Coinbase in 2015 and bragged on their website saying they were investing in cutting edge technology. A lot of people had issues with banks blocking deposits from crypto exchanges back in 2017/8. I went to Westpac in 2017 and asked if I could cash out money from Coinbase. No one knew what i was talking about. They put me in touch with a higher up and he said they would not accept deposits from coinbase if I wished to cash out. ANZ said the same. Westpac ended up making $500M+ from their investment in coinbase. i know banks have gotten better over here in recent years but it was another example of being okay for the rich but not okay for the little guy. Also, and example of them thinking everyone back then was a drug/arms dealer, tax cheat or money launderer whereas now it's a lot easier.

 

[DesertRoo]

Tropical storm Nicole.

 

[DesertRoo]

For sure. A decentralised on/off ramp would be interesting. But governments would come down hard on it if it ever got off the ground. Best you can do now is localbitcoins (peer2peer) sale but obviously that comes with huge risks. Governments have gotten a lot better at tracking transactions and even catching up with hackers/bad actors (bruno block is a good example. He was an anon everywhere and the US government caught up with him eventually) and for that reason I think the benefits for them outweigh the negatives (for now anyway).

Westpac invested in Coinbase in 2015 and bragged on their website saying they were investing in cutting edge technology. A lot of people had issues with banks blocking deposits from crypto exchanges back in 2017/8. I went to Westpac in 2017 and asked if I could cash out money from Coinbase. No one knew what i was talking about. They put me in touch with a higher up and he said they would not accept deposits from coinbase if I wished to cash out. ANZ said the same. Westpac ended up making $500M+ from their investment in coinbase. i know banks have gotten better over here in recent years but it was another example of being okay for the rich but not okay for the little guy. Also, and example of them thinking everyone back then was a drug/arms dealer, tax cheat or money launderer whereas now it's a lot easier.

Ok what’s the actual value of Bitcoin?
Not the market capitalisation, if everyone pulled their money out, how much would it be valued at?
And how did you get to that figure.

 

[Twinkletoes]

Tropical storm Nicole.

Spoke to my brother yesterday. He was holed up in a large hotel in Orlando attending a PwC Partners conference. He was telling me the moment the storm was upgraded to a hurricane around a quarter of the partners made for the checkout queue at high speed, eager to get the hell out of Dodge.

 

[Kangaroos techno]

This is what being Biden's second biggest donor gets you. Interesting if true.

 

[Hojuman]

Well, Putin is worth around $70b, you can take a wild guess and figure out someone who has only ever worked for the government is a thief when he is worth $70b.

Bloody good thief though wouldn't you say ?
He'll be in thin ice on the 1st anniversary if his " military operation " 2023.

 

[Kangaroos techno]

Ok what’s the actual value of Bitcoin?
Not the market capitalisation, if everyone pulled their money out, how much would it be valued at?
And how did you get to that figure.

It's value is what any individual/s is/are willing to pay for it. Like any asset. People point to the greater fool theory but unlike modern day fiat - you can't create more bitcoin. You can alter fiats total supplies. Fiats aren't backed by any commodity now. They only have value because the system/society accepts that they do. No different to bitcoin. if enough people agree that something has value, then it becomes valuable. Modern financial system is built on this trust. Difference being that bitcoin holders have an alternative financial system without having to place their trust in any one person or institution.

Limited supply (like gold and oil - but unlike those 2 more supply can't be discovered). It cannot be copied (the tech has been proven to be secure time and again. The security and resiliency adds value to bitcoin). It is transportable - easy to move and difficult to take (near impossible to confiscate if you use a non-custodial crypto wallet and users protect their keys). Borderless. It's decentralised. It's open source - anyone in the world can audit it.

One of the best parts is you're not forced to use it. So by all means, you can think it's stupid and worthless, that's your right. Just like it's mine to disagree.

 

[DesertRoo]

It's value is what any individual/s is/are willing to pay for it. Like any asset. People point to the greater fool theory but unlike modern day fiat - you can't create more bitcoin. You can alter fiats total supplies. Fiats aren't backed by any commodity now. They only have value because the system/society accepts that they do. No different to bitcoin. if enough people agree that something has value, then it becomes valuable. Modern financial system is built on this trust. Difference being that bitcoin holders have an alternative financial system without having to place their trust in any one person or institution.

Limited supply (like gold and oil - but unlike those 2 more supply can't be discovered). It cannot be copied (the tech has been proven to be secure time and again. The security and resiliency adds value to bitcoin). It is transportable - easy to move and difficult to take (near impossible to confiscate if you use a non-custodial crypto wallet and users protect their keys). Borderless. It's decentralised. It's open source - anyone in the world can audit it.

One of the best parts is you're not forced to use it. So by all means, you can think it's stupid and worthless, that's your right. Just like it's mine to disagree.

You still haven’t answered the question what’s the value of it.

Fiats have value because they can be measured against other fiats. Its generally measured through how well a country is going financially against another.
Commodities have value because they can be turned into other things. Even if the price goes up and down there’s still a physical product.

Currently the only thing crypto does is the ability to shift money outside the swift banking system. And even then you have to find someone willing to pay what you asked for it at the other end and hope a coin base isn’t going to rip you off.

 

[Kangaroos techno]

You still haven’t answered the question what’s the value of it.

Fiats have value because they can be measured against other fiats. Its generally measured through how well a country is going financially against another.
Commodities have value because they can be turned into other things. Even if the price goes up and down there’s still a physical product.

Currently the only thing crypto does is the ability to shift money outside the swift banking system. And even then you have to find someone willing to pay what you asked for it at the other end and hope a coin base isn’t going to rip you off.

Right now - $17.2k USD.

 

[Tectonic]

Currently the only thing crypto does is the ability to shift money outside the swift banking system.

Not a small feat.

Pretty sure the original concept of BTC was to be able to transact financially without having to deal with banks as the intermediary.
For some, price is a function of how much people value the concept of a bankless currency.

Others as I said just want a 10x

 

[ferball]

I think the market will be fine without shorting, they had to ban naked shorting after the GFC in 2008, even in whacky America.

Didn't they (ie the Liar's Poker guy's mate) do that cos the shorting that drove the GFC just exposed what a fraud those financial products were?

 

[ferball]

What’s the actual value of a Bitcoin?

Its got to be worth at least as much as the electricity its made out of...

 

[Hojuman]

Its got to be worth at least as much as the electricity its made out of...

Still can't figure out how there will only ever be 24 million of them ( is this correct ? )

 

[ferball]

Oops

I imagine his morning wasn't as bad as those people in NYC 21 years ago...

 

[ferball]

Still can't figure out how there will only ever be 24 million of them ( is this correct ? )

Yeah I think so. I dunno tho. I'm too old for this shit.

I think originally only a limited number were minted or whatever and that limit was what would drive the increase in value over time. Ie as demand went up and supply was constant that would drive the increase in their value.

 

[ferball]

I was more looking at it from the angle that the government wouldn’t like all these crypto coins because of the criminal element attached to them.

On the other hand I think the US government is the largest holder of Bitcoin after they took down the Silk Road.

I thought half the original number of bitcoin were still unaccounted for and the guy who invented it disapppeared years ago. His original wallet is still untouched allegedly.

Billionaires hold most bitcoin and alot of other crypto too. Its not some democratic thing.

 

[Val Keating]

I thought half the original number of bitcoin were still unaccounted for and the guy who invented it disapppeared years ago. His original wallet is still untouched allegedly.

Billionaires hold most bitcoin and alot of other crypto too. Its not some democratic thing.

Yeah something like that. There’s also some bloke in the US that has a huge amount on a hard drive that he threw out before he realised it was worth so much. Not sure if he’s still searching the rubbish dump for it but he did for a long time.

 

[Val Keating]

Poor bugger. Edit : Wales not the US. I just always assume this crazy stuff comes from there.


Man seeks to excavate landfill that allegedly has half a billion dollars worth of bitcoin

 

[ferball]

You still haven’t answered the question what’s the value of it.

Fiats have value because they can be measured against other fiats. Its generally measured through how well a country is going financially against another.
Commodities have value because they can be turned into other things. Even if the price goes up and down there’s still a physical product.

Currently the only thing crypto does is the ability to shift money outside the swift banking system. And even then you have to find someone willing to pay what you asked for it at the other end and hope a coin base isn’t going to rip you off.

Are you asking what the value of money is?

 

[ferball]

LOL Wrong vid.

Better listening tho.

 

[ferball]

That's the wrong video.

I'll find the right one.