Play Nice Random Chat Thread VII

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Val Keating said:
Ukraine can’t beat Russia. Sure they’ll have victories and hold ground but they can’t defeat them.

It’s a bit like how people think that we lost the Vietnam war or the Afghanistan war, but the truth is that Vietnam and Afghanistan were left in ruin while no blood was spilled on allied soil.
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You may end up being right but I don't think so , Russia certainly won't win this the deliberate targeting of civilian structures, hopsitals, schools not to mention the kidnapping of children, rape and other war crimes including castrating POWs has destroyed any goodwill Ukrainians had towards them. They'll end up dealing with guerilla fighters until its too costly for them to stay.

I think no matter what happens they'll end with another Afganistan type situation where they will have to leave.

I mean people were expecting Kyiv to fall in days, its been 490 days since Russia attacked.

Russia has taken casualties on their own territory thanks to Anti Putin groups and I'm still not sure they've gotten that region under control yet.

novayagazeta.eu

Russian governor: 14 service members killed in saboteur attack on Russia’s Belgorod region — Novaya Gazeta Europe

Fourteen Russian service members were killed in a sabotage and reconnaissance group’s attack on the Belgorod region in early June, Pskov region Governor Mikhail Vedernikov revealed .
novayagazeta.eu novayagazeta.eu
 
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Roos9699 said:
You may end up being right but I don't think so , Russia certainly won't win this the deliberate targeting of civilian structures, hopsitals, schools not to mention the kidnapping of children, rape and other war crimes including castrating POWs has destroyed any goodwill Ukrainians had towards them. They'll end up dealing with guerilla fighters until its too costly for them to stay.

I think no matter what happens they'll end with another Afganistan type situation where they will have to leave.

I mean people were expecting Kyiv to fall in days, its been 490 days since Russia attacked.

Russia has taken casualties on their own territory thanks to Anti Putin groups and I'm still not sure they've gotten that region under control yet.

novayagazeta.eu

Russian governor: 14 service members killed in saboteur attack on Russia’s Belgorod region — Novaya Gazeta Europe

Fourteen Russian service members were killed in a sabotage and reconnaissance group’s attack on the Belgorod region in early June, Pskov region Governor Mikhail Vedernikov revealed .
novayagazeta.eu novayagazeta.eu
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That’s awful for everyone. That’s not Ukraine “winning”, that’s a country becoming a failed state.
 
Roos9699 said:
You may end up being right but I don't think so , Russia certainly won't win this the deliberate targeting of civilian structures, hopsitals, schools not to mention the kidnapping of children, rape and other war crimes including castrating POWs has destroyed any goodwill Ukrainians had towards them. They'll end up dealing with guerilla fighters until its too costly for them to stay.

I think no matter what happens they'll end with another Afganistan type situation where they will have to leave.

I mean people were expecting Kyiv to fall in days, its been 490 days since Russia attacked.

Russia has taken casualties on their own territory thanks to Anti Putin groups and I'm still not sure they've gotten that region under control yet.

novayagazeta.eu

Russian governor: 14 service members killed in saboteur attack on Russia’s Belgorod region — Novaya Gazeta Europe

Fourteen Russian service members were killed in a sabotage and reconnaissance group’s attack on the Belgorod region in early June, Pskov region Governor Mikhail Vedernikov revealed .
novayagazeta.eu novayagazeta.eu
Click to expand...
This is human cost of war, it’s always the civilian cost which is the most tragic with this knowledge would’ve you accepted a peace deal in April, that would’ve lead to Russia withdrawing from all of the Donbas and Crimea?


This whole episode is about trying to get regime change in Russia
 

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Roos9699 said:
I think no matter what happens they'll end with another Afganistan type situation where they will have to leave.
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Ukraine is far more likely to end up like Korea r or Kashmir than anything else, with a frozen conflict and heavily militarised border zone.
 
Val Keating said:
That’s awful for everyone. That’s not Ukraine “winning”, that’s a country becoming a failed state.
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I agree and nobody wins in war. I've been follwing this conflict from the beginning and have seen some truly horrifying footage that has brought me to tears. What I want is this conflict to end so that Ukrainan soldiers can return to their familys and that they and the civilans can begin rebuilding but for that to happen Russia has to leave.

DesertRoo said:
This is human cost of war, it’s always the civilian cost which is the most tragic with this knowledge would’ve you accepted a peace deal in April, that would’ve lead to Russia withdrawing from all of the Donbas and Crimea?


This whole episode is about trying to get regime change in Russia
Click to expand...

When the inital rounds of peace talks happened I hoped they would succeed and that the war would end quickly.

What you're neglecting is Putin doesn't negotiatie in good faith and that link you shared even states that Putin seems uninterested in a compromise that would leave Ukraine as a sovreign state. How do negotiate with some one who belives your country shouldn't exist?

Even a former Russian Diplomat states Putin can't be trusted.

 
Roos9699 said:
I agree and nobody wins in war. I've been follwing this conflict from the beginning and have seen some truly horrifying footage that has brought me to tears. What I want is this conflict to end so that Ukrainan soldiers can return to their familys and that they and the civilans can begin rebuilding but for that to happen Russia has to leave.


When the inital rounds of peace talks happened I hoped they would succeed and that the war would end quickly.

What you're neglecting is Putin doesn't negotiatie in good faith and that link you shared even states that Putin seems uninterested in a compromise that would leave Ukraine as a sovreign state. How do negotiate with some one who belives your country shouldn't exist?

Even a former Russian Diplomat states Putin can't be trusted.

Click to expand...

If you’ve been following this conflict since the beginning you must be very old.
 
Roos9699 said:
I agree and nobody wins in war. I've been follwing this conflict from the beginning and have seen some truly horrifying footage that has brought me to tears. What I want is this conflict to end so that Ukrainan soldiers can return to their familys and that they and the civilans can begin rebuilding but for that to happen Russia has to leave.


When the inital rounds of peace talks happened I hoped they would succeed and that the war would end quickly.

What you're neglecting is Putin doesn't negotiatie in good faith and that link you shared even states that Putin seems uninterested in a compromise that would leave Ukraine as a sovreign state. How do negotiate with some one who belives your country shouldn't exist?

Even a former Russian Diplomat states Putin can't be trusted.

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Russia won't leave without Ukraine retaking all occupied territory which it doesn't have the manpower to do. Logistically it's probably incomparable to Afghanistan but more like Chechnya where they took horrible casualties but still eventually overcame once they changed tact.
 
More fruit roll up chat IMO

The Chessboard thread has been unlocked for those playing along at home. I did wonder how long it would you all to figure it out by yourselves but I'm too invested in why anyone would pair ice cream with the roll up
 
Themanbun said:
Curiosity, really. The way my mate told me was like he was letting me in on a state secret. He looked over his shoulder a couple of times to make sure he wasn't overheard and then said "oi do you remember roll ups?"
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Did he open an old overcoat to show you a bunch of ramekins with roll ups & ice creams in them, but only after demanding you proved you weren't a cop
 
SimpkinByTheDockOfTheBay said:
Uhhhh yeah man, they bought a few dozen Facebook ads that reached a few thousand people and almost certainly changed no votes let alone any results.

In the realm of election interference that the US does - having democratically elected leaders murdered - it was nothing.

The real interference in US elections comes from Americans themselves ... but its easier to have a big scary boogieman to blame.
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Yeah this is just insane. The Russians did * all.

The reason the Democrats lost that election to Trump was because of the hubris of the Democrats. Everything else is just bullshit propagated by people who don't want to face up to themselves and are attempting to deflect from that. If they hadn't behaved like a pack of entitled *sticks Trump wouldn't have been elected.

End of story.
 
I had to read this thread to learn Yevgeny Prizoghin was the campaigner who disenfranchised all those black voters in Florida.

You just can't get this information in the mainstream media.
 

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Mav said:
I'm the first to admit I know very little about this but some quick digging shows that all of that did not happen when he was "literally running Trumps campaign". The FBI investigation started in 2014 well before he hooked up with Trump. And most of what he got done for was for his dealings in Ukraine, which happened before Trump announced he was running.

You seem to be making stuff up to justify your argument. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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If you're talking about Manafort then funnily enough what he did in Ukraine probably did more to interfere with Ukraine/Russian relations than anyone. He's a *en spooky character that one. He's one of the reasons there is ... or was a 9/11 truth movement. If he wasn't involved with dodgy Pakistani intelligence types then alot of paranoid lefty US weirdos wouldn't have been asking why the Pakistan ISI paid him all that money.

When Trump used the term Deep State he was talking about people like Manafort. They walk this line between criminality and legality on behalf of governments and they hold the networks together that get s**t done. They probably make alot of enemies along the way too. Might be why he's in jail this time instead of kicking back in the carribean or where ever.
 
SimpkinByTheDockOfTheBay said:
It isn't.

My position is based on a hard realpolitik take on world affairs.

It's just that you're so fully entrenched in the Team USA vibe that any dissent from the prevailing line on imperial affairs can only be understood as "Russia is the motherland."

Have you ever read CLR James majestic Beyond A Boundary?

Apart from being the best cricket book ever, it is also about colonialism, and as James points out, the first place that gets colonised is your mind.

So the whole book is about how a black Caribbean man who loves cricket comes to 1930s England and realises that he knows the country better than the people who live there ... he's got a scholarship to Oxford or similar.

But the ignorant racists treat him like crap, and he gets radicalised by the experience and comes to understand how cricket was the vehicle for British colonialism to take over his mind.

He had such a positive view of Britain, and when he got there, he learned the hard way that the people there actually hated him.

I'm not saying this to pick a fight, its just an observation that its completely understandable that someone so invested in US culture via your love for a sporting team there has undergone a similar mental colonisation to James.

Obviously he recognised it, broke free and became one of the great Marxist and indeed anythingy historians of all time.

I find these discussion quite entertaining tbh, when I was over in the UK in November and December I met up with multiple journo mates who are banned from Russia and under sanctions. One very good friend regularly travels to Ukraine to cover the fighting and has been repeatedly sanctioned.

I'm without doubt on Russian intelligence lists as owner of a phone that pings in the houses of people they've sanctioned and have on various lists, so am also deeply suspect too.

But aye, Russia Is The Motherland mate.

Anyway, do yourself a favour and read James, its riveting stuff.

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You’re on Putin’s sh!t list?
 
SimpkinByTheDockOfTheBay said:
I'm of the view that if you dish it out you've got to be able to take it back.

Only time I've reported posts for personal stuff is people using my real name.
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Yeah, sorry about that John.
 
tazaa said:
Did anyone else just feel that??? wtf man again??

My heart f*** me
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I didn’t but dogs are barking all around my area and they just spoke about it on SEN’s Ashes coverage “there’s been another earthquake in Melbourne”.
 
Twinkletoes said:
I didn’t but dogs are barking all around my area and they just spoke about it on SEN’s Ashes coverage “there’s been another earthquake in Melbourne”.
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3kms deep out east near BawBaw.

Twitter has blown up about it too.
 
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