Bumped Random Chat - Winter is coming

Cannon82

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I think you've contradicted yourself a little- you say she has no "meaningful education", but if degrees are handed out as carelessly as you say they are then how would she obtain one anyway?

In any case if what you say is true then the plaudits she's received seem reasonable enough, given the 1.4 million protesters were students and therefore incapable of understanding climate change (yet still inspired to protest against it).

Gotta say, you raise a good point re: why has science failed to convince. I guess you'll need to ask skeptics like Tony Abbot that one.
See my response to PG. Degrees are handed out more carelessly but that doesn't make receiving an education less pertinent.

1.4M students protesting? My word! I guess the ones who do value their education went to school instead.

What's Tony Abbott got to do with it?
 

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Proper Gander

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That was my low effort response to G2B's low effort response. The education is the point, particularly if you're going to weigh in on complex topics. To throw back to your example on music, people enjoy that without knowing whether the creator spent 10 years studying the musical arts or if they've been faffing around in the basement for 3 months and came up with something catchy. There's a product there. I'm not seeing what a young person with no "meaningful education" has to offer to the debate other than the ability to regurgitate what others have already said and emotional arguments / trauma.
Nor am I, since I haven’t to date read a word she has uttered. But effective rhetoric is a skill too, so if she truly possesses it (some people do) then that’s a tool not to be sniffed at. And the relevant capabilities of critical thinking, scientific understanding and imagination have been found in very young people before.

She may be an idiot and her success a fad. I honestly don’t know. I just found your rationale for dismissing her - testamurs - a faulty basis for the assumption
 

Cannon82

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Nor am I, since I haven’t to date read a word she has uttered. But effective rhetoric is a skill too, so if she truly possesses it (some people do) then that’s a tool not to be sniffed at. And the relevant capabilities of critical thinking, scientific understanding and imagination have been found in very young people before.

She may be an idiot and her success a fad. I honestly don’t know. I just found your rationale for dismissing her - testamurs - a faulty basis for the assumption
Well lets get into the two key benefits of meaningful education / training then:

Primary: the education / competence itself
Secondary: evidence of authority / competence (ie the testamur, as you like to say)

The main point is to gain an education and develop an understanding in a field, and the second part is to have evidence of said understanding that provides some assurances that you know what you're doing to people who don't. Similar with a cop and their badge, etc.

As for your other point, my rationale for dismissing her was when I read a little bit about her, her talk was of being unable to sleep, eat when thinking about global warming, pollution, etc. As Bolt says, she seems like a bucket of neuroses. If she talks about the actual mechanisms of climate change in any depth anywhere, I haven't seen it and I find it highly doubtful it'd be her own work / understanding of the situation rather than regurgitating other people's work. Scientists and people with multiple degrees can't agree and don't fully understand the processes behind what makes this planet tick, so please tell me why this young lady is worthy of elevation to the role of climate change guru?
 

Proper Gander

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Well lets get into the two key benefits of meaningful education / training then:

Primary: the education / competence itself
Secondary: evidence of authority / competence (ie the testamur, as you like to say)

The main point is to gain an education and develop an understanding in a field, and the second part is to have evidence of said understanding that provides some assurances that you know what you're doing to people who don't. Similar with a cop and their badge, etc.

As for your other point, my rationale for dismissing her was when I read a little bit about her, her talk was of being unable to sleep, eat when thinking about global warming, pollution, etc. As Bolt says, she seems like a bucket of neuroses. If she talks about the actual mechanisms of climate change in any depth anywhere, I haven't seen it and I find it highly doubtful it'd be her own work / understanding of the situation rather than regurgitating other people's work. Scientists and people with multiple degrees can't agree and don't fully understand the processes behind what makes this planet tick, so please tell me why this young lady is worthy of elevation to the role of climate change guru?
Competence is one outcome of education. I see the point of it but I don’t think that is the be all and end all of education, which can be about knowledge, the development of critical thinking (which can be creative) and potentially about that slightly abstract thing generally referred to as wisdom.

I don’t know why this woman is getting attention for her views. As I said, I’ve never heard of her. I’m just disinclined to dismiss someone outright without putting in the effort of researching and considering her views first, or claiming that whatever it is she may have done has no value, because she doesn’t have a degree and because Andrew Bolt says so. To do so seems the very definition of being a sheep.
 

Cannon82

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Competence is one outcome of education. I see the point of it but I don’t think that is the be all and end all of education, which can be about knowledge, the development of critical thinking (which can be creative) and potentially about that slightly abstract thing generally referred to as wisdom.

I don’t know why this woman is getting attention for her views. As I said, I’ve never heard of her. I’m just disinclined to dismiss someone outright without putting in the effort of researching and considering her views first, or claiming that whatever it is she may have done has no value, because she doesn’t have a degree and because Andrew Bolt says so. To do so seems the very definition of being a sheep.
Knowledge and critical thinking would fold in under education / competence.

I'm perfectly happy to dismiss someone who relies on emotional arguments. If you want to carry out a full in-depth analysis of every person who gives you their opinion, you go right ahead. When you select for people to come work with you, do you take everyone who puts their name forward or do you "pre-select" for certain qualities / qualifications because you don't want to have to verify in person the attributes you want? The sheep in this case would be the 1.5M people who apparently get taken in by a young girl having a mental break.
 

Toump Ass

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See my response to PG. Degrees are handed out more carelessly but that doesn't make receiving an education less pertinent.

1.4M students protesting? My word! I guess the ones who do value their education went to school instead.
1.4 million people protesting in 100+ countries leading to headlines around the world re: climate change... I reckon that's impressive enough to warrant a little media attention & a photo op with a prime minister or two.

Scientists and people with multiple degrees can't agree and don't fully understand the processes behind what makes this planet tick, so please tell me why this young lady is worthy of elevation to the role of climate change guru?
Jumping in here but she's lauded for nothing more than being a young person who has inspired other young people to take an interest in climate change. Who cares if she used emotional arguments or mathematical equations.

FWIW I reckon it's a tad harsh to call anyone who joined the protests "sheep". You don't need to have multiple degrees to want to enact legislation for the environment.

Anyway, I'm out of this one.
 

Toump Ass

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People who care whether someone knows what they're talking about. What's the difference between convincing or educating someone and manipulating them?
She's not making any claims of her own though, all she's doing is asking why the people who do know what they're talking about aren't being taken seriously. As you said- she's a conduit.

The only "manipulation" i can see is coming from people trying to discredit her as being "deeply disturbed" or in the middle of some kind of "mental breakdown". She's got OCD and Aspergers, so what.
 

Cannon82

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She's not making any claims of her own though, all she's doing is asking why the people who do know what they're talking about aren't being taken seriously. As you said- she's a conduit.

The only "manipulation" i can see is coming from people trying to discredit her as being "deeply disturbed" or in the middle of some kind of "mental breakdown". She's got OCD and Aspergers, so what.
From what I've read, she's said she's having nightmares, can't sleep, going round the bend over it. Its not manipulation to say she's a crackpot, she fully admits to being one.
 

Toump Ass

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From what I've read, she's said she's having nightmares, can't sleep, going round the bend over it. Its not manipulation to say she's a crackpot, she fully admits to being one.
Her dad's an actor, her mother's an opera singer. Theatre is in her blood. "Nightmares and no sleep" sounds like a little mayo to me, if it helps her spread her draw attention to climate change, good on her.

Disagree that being anxious about the environment makes her a "crackpot", and totally refute she is the "hIGh PriEsTess oF thE GlOBaL WaRMinG CulT!!!" as our friends at the herald sun would like you to believe!
 

Cannon82

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Her dad's an actor, her mother's an opera singer. Theatre is in her blood. "Nightmares and no sleep" sounds like a little mayo to me, if it helps her spread her draw attention to climate change, good on her.

Disagree that being anxious about the environment makes her a "crackpot", and totally refute she is the "hIGh PriEsTess oF thE GlOBaL WaRMinG CulT!!!" as our friends at the herald sun would like you to believe!
Surely the people at the Herald Sun are just adding "a little mayo" for effect - it's part of their sheister profession after all? What's good for the goose...

So she's either a crackpot or an actor pretending to be a crackpot who doesn't know anything about what she's talking about and just regurgitates her neuroses or lines, depending on your viewpoint. So I guess we come back to why this person is receiving attention at all, which was my original query.
 

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Crimson Azure

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See my response to PG. Degrees are handed out more carelessly but that doesn't make receiving an education less pertinent.

1.4M students protesting? My word! I guess the ones who do value their education went to school instead.

What's Tony Abbott got to do with it?
I agree with this. In my last job I got offered to get two, with a possible 3rd diploma purely on providing some RPL. The organisation had access to government funding for the diplomas and were handing them out like flyers. I refused to get them.
 

Cannon82

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I agree with this. In my last job I got offered to get two, with a possible 3rd diploma purely on providing some RPL. The organisation had access to government funding for the diplomas and were handing them out like flyers. I refused to get them.
RPLs can be difficult to prove sometimes. One of the guys I used to work with was going through the process of getting his previous certs updated to prove he was at a certain level, and he was getting faffed around a lot by the teachers of the various institutions. Not sure a bloke with 30 years experience in the game should be required to attend TAFE to complete the single module he needs to get official accreditation to do something he's already been doing for a long, long time. The back and forth went on for about 6 months.

Going out on a limb here, but Steve Smith is a very good cricketer.
You lie.
 

Crimson Azure

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RPLs can be difficult to prove sometimes. One of the guys I used to work with was going through the process of getting his previous certs updated to prove he was at a certain level, and he was getting faffed around a lot by the teachers of the various institutions. Not sure a bloke with 30 years experience in the game should be required to attend TAFE to complete the single module he needs to get official accreditation to do something he's already been doing for a long, long time. The back and forth went on for about 6 months.
My issue was they we’re basically pushing them through for the government payment. They do nothing other than tick off, I provide the ticks. If done properly RPL should have more requirements but not at the expense of common sense.

Sadly, common sense being the worlds rarest commodity.
 

Proper Gander

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My issue was they we’re basically pushing them through for the government payment. They do nothing other than tick off, I provide the ticks. If done properly RPL should have more requirements but not at the expense of common sense.

Sadly, common sense being the worlds rarest commodity.
It’s a good scam and one the federal and state governments should have seen coming. Give employers incentives to ‘upskill’ their staff and this is what happens. The RPL issue isn’t half of it either - there are now thousands of lucky Australians with vocational qualifications ... that don’t even know they have them! Their identities have just been used on forms to get Government incentive payments back to the RTO and or the employer, or either or both have been duped by a third party broker. I work for one the regulatory authorities that is supposed to be tackling the issue, or at least the proliferation of bogus RTOs bit of it. We got some people sent to gaol last year which was nice, but the resourcing to really prevent the issue isn’t there, and the policy settings are terrible so it’s uphill work.
 

HANDSOLO

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Sooooo.....

I need to head back to Aus in two weeks to get my Visa updated. I've decided to take myself and my son skiing given it seems to be a good ski season. Pretty excited, I got snowboarding alot, but have not done so in Australia for 20 years.

I'm thinking Falls Creek - which I have never skied, was always into Hotham as a boarder. But now I go wherever the best ski school for little kids is

Anyone wanna give me tips / thoughts
 

HANDSOLO

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Sometimes I love my job, Sometimes I hate it

There is too much travel but it pays the bills, gives reasonable flexibility so I can't complain
 

Cannon82

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Sooooo.....

I need to head back to Aus in two weeks to get my Visa updated. I've decided to take myself and my son skiing given it seems to be a good ski season. Pretty excited, I got snowboarding alot, but have not done so in Australia for 20 years.

I'm thinking Falls Creek - which I have never skied, was always into Hotham as a boarder. But now I go wherever the best ski school for little kids is

Anyone wanna give me tips / thoughts
Would go Hotham? I used to ski Perisher / Blue Cow / Guthega a lot when I was younger and the snowfall was tailing off pretty badly. Snow charts in the 70s/80s compared to the 90s/00s were chalk and cheese. Quite a few people head to Perisher and you'll be queuing to get on lifts. If you can find a 2019 snow chart for the resorts, I'd just go off that.
 

Proper Gander

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Topkent

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Does anyone know why during commentary Rex Hunt used to say ‘11.11 77 Lord Nelson!’ when the score hit that margin?
Apparently it was started in the cricket when a team reached the score of 111 in recognition of Lord Nelson who was an officer in the British navy who supposedly fought the french with one eye one arm and one leg
 

Crimson Azure

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Apparently it was started in the cricket when a team reached the score of 111 in recognition of Lord Nelson who was an officer in the British navy who supposedly fought the french with one eye one arm and one leg
Knew who he was, smashed the French fleet when Napoleon was over in Egypt. Was literally listening to the revolutions podcast on the French revolution and brought him up which made me think of it. Worth a listen if you like history.
 
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