Discussion Random Discussion

[Diehard Saint]

Sshhhh! Don't say anything. Let me imagine that saffer accent in my head. Sorry if it was a bit over the top, but I was in a four year relationship with a woman who was from Capetown. She was an IP lawyer, smart as a whip, funny, and of course, a saints supporter. Couldn't have been more perfect. Went back home. Left my heart in pieces on the floor. Still converse with her. Didn't mean to make you uncomfortable. Too much hyperbole?

Not uncomfortable. All in good fun.

 

[hayes]

Did you know mine is the first generation that will be less able to afford a house than our parents? Do you know why that is? Because a bunch of greedy boomers bought a bunch of houses and negatively geared them until they could start making money off of rent. Because the housing market has been artificially inflated at an astronomical rate during a period of wage stagnation or even decline. Because a bunch of people who clearly think like you are willing to just blame someone else for the problems you and your generation has caused.

No one's saying old pensioners are stealing jobs either. What a copout bullshit strawman argument wow. People are saying that greedy people keep voting in a party that endorses their greed. And the rest of the population is either too stupid or doesn't have the time to research to find out anything to the contrary.

Plenty of people can still buy a house. It might not be in the fancy suburb you want but there’s always a suburb that is affordable, people just want the fancy ones to brag to their mates. Same reason why we take out high interest loans to buy the nice car we spend an hour a day in, so people can see it. The problem with most people in this country is nobody knows how to save. Nobody has the patience for it (cough credit cards cough - another high interest loan that people rarely pay off). It’s not about being tight it’s about splurging at the right times not every single week.

Before you ask no I’m not a baby boomer, I only just recently bought my first house. Things were cheaper 20-30 years ago because people were making less money yet they managed with 19% interest home loans. Two incomes and the world is your oyster, IF you don’t waste half of it.

 

[Crusty Undies]

Plenty of people can still buy a house. It might not be in the fancy suburb you want but there’s always a suburb that is affordable, people just want the fancy ones to brag to their mates. Same reason why we take out high interest loans to buy the nice car we spend an hour a day in, so people can see it. The problem with most people in this country is nobody knows how to save. Nobody has the patience for it (cough credit cards cough - another high interest loan that people rarely pay off). It’s not about being tight it’s about splurging at the right times not every single week.

Before you ask no I’m not a baby boomer, I only just recently bought my first house. Things were cheaper 20-30 years ago because people were making less money yet they managed with 19% interest home loans. Two incomes and the world is your oyster, IF you don’t waste half of it.

I'm not talking about houses to rent, and if you were talking about houses to buy then you're quite incorrect. Good luck buying a house in any suburb in Melbourne for less than 500 thousand dollars. Good luck finding a job that you could pay that mortgage back with, without a uni degree that will set you back a further 50 thousand dollars. Good luck finding any job in the few locations around the entire country you can buy a house for less than 200 grand. Also, why should we have to give up the lifestyle everyone desires? The people buying houses 20-30 years ago working 2 minimum wage jobs and getting 19% interest rates as you claim didn't.

Things were absolutely not cheaper 20-30 years ago. That is an absolute joke and I'm now convinced you're taking the piss. Housing prices have increased nearly 10 fold the last 25 years in Melbourne. It's about 5 fold if you take into account inflation rates. You know what hasn't increased 5 fold over the last 25 years? Wages. I'm guessing you went back to the one year Australia was in recession in the 80s and went "look see? they had high interest rates too". And failed to understand that high interest rates on low priced properties are cheaper than high interest rates on high priced properties. Especially considering the exponentially longer time required to pay back loans of a significantly larger amount.

Boomer isn't an age bracket anymore, it's a mindset; so I've got two words for you.

Ok boomer.

 

[gringo2011]

I'm not talking about houses to rent, and if you were talking about houses to buy then you're quite incorrect. Good luck buying a house in any suburb in Melbourne for less than 500 thousand dollars. Good luck finding a job that you could pay that mortgage back with, without a uni degree that will set you back a further 50 thousand dollars. Good luck finding any job in the few locations around the entire country you can buy a house for less than 200 grand. Also, why should we have to give up the lifestyle everyone desires? The people buying houses 20-30 years ago working 2 minimum wage jobs and getting 19% interest rates as you claim didn't.

Things were absolutely not cheaper 20-30 years ago. That is an absolute joke and I'm now convinced you're taking the piss. Housing prices have increased nearly 10 fold the last 25 years in Melbourne. It's about 5 fold if you take into account inflation rates. You know what hasn't increased 5 fold over the last 25 years? Wages. I'm guessing you went back to the one year Australia was in recession in the 80s and went "look see? they had high interest rates too". And failed to understand that high interest rates on low priced properties are cheaper than high interest rates on high priced properties. Especially considering the exponentially longer time required to pay back loans of a significantly larger amount.

Boomer isn't an age bracket anymore, it's a mindset; so I've got two words for you.

Ok boomer.

Yep we had it good in the old days. In the 90s I bought a house wth my girlfriend, we had high interest rates and basic jobs being young. We had enough left over to both have nice cars and an overseas holiday every year. That house cost $160,000 in Elwood. One persons wage would pay it off in 8 years back then.

That house would now be around $2 million, a person leaving school and buying a house might be on $50,000 each, one person's wage would take 40 years. And if interest rates go up....well.

Even if you say the median is now $1,000,000 it's still 20 years.

Free uni, free health care, cheap utilities that were public owned.

 

[hayes]

I'm not talking about houses to rent, and if you were talking about houses to buy then you're quite incorrect. Good luck buying a house in any suburb in Melbourne for less than 500 thousand dollars. Good luck finding a job that you could pay that mortgage back with, without a uni degree that will set you back a further 50 thousand dollars. Good luck finding any job in the few locations around the entire country you can buy a house for less than 200 grand. Also, why should we have to give up the lifestyle everyone desires? The people buying houses 20-30 years ago working 2 minimum wage jobs and getting 19% interest rates as you claim didn't.

Things were absolutely not cheaper 20-30 years ago. That is an absolute joke and I'm now convinced you're taking the piss. Housing prices have increased nearly 10 fold the last 25 years in Melbourne. It's about 5 fold if you take into account inflation rates. You know what hasn't increased 5 fold over the last 25 years? Wages. I'm guessing you went back to the one year Australia was in recession in the 80s and went "look see? they had high interest rates too". And failed to understand that high interest rates on low priced properties are cheaper than high interest rates on high priced properties. Especially considering the exponentially longer time required to pay back loans of a significantly larger amount.

Boomer isn't an age bracket anymore, it's a mindset; so I've got two words for you.

Ok boomer.

I know plenty of people who have bought houses in suburbs for under 500k. Single people as well. It’s not everywhere obviously but it’s there if you look. I didn’t go to uni and I bought a house for over 500k. The “it’s everyone else’s fault” attitude is very common in people under 30, unfortunately that attitude doesn’t get you far in life. I’ll take the boomer attitude over a defeatist one all day.

 

[gringo2011]

I know plenty of people who have bought houses in suburbs for under 500k. Single people as well. It’s not everywhere obviously but it’s there if you look. I didn’t go to uni and I bought a house for over 500k. The “it’s everyone else’s fault” attitude is very common in people under 30, unfortunately that attitude doesn’t get you far in life. I’ll take the boomer attitude over a defeatist one all day.

You can still buy a house but it's not an equal equation. Boomers had it easier, I'm gen x and we had it less easy and it was still a dream compared to today. I find the attitude that young people are lazy, patronising and insulting. It's not the same playing field. I have never really struggled because of having people who could help out in my family but I'd hate to be starting now even if my folks could help with a deposit and bail me out if things get tough. I have kids and can't see how they will get a foot in.


Besides they are soft little shits and would probably need therapy if they had to move to an outer suburb without access to a decent avocado supply.

 

[Mikevk123]

So apparently we are keen on Brandon White as a rookie. Is he any good any upside ?

 

[Moral Decay]

So apparently we are keen on Brandon White as a rookie. Is he any good any upside ?

Difficult, won the B&F in the VFL, not liked by the previous coach, good foot skills, question marks over attitude, opinions will differ but a DFA is what he is, he can play if he wants to.

 

[Crusty Undies]

I know plenty of people who have bought houses in suburbs for under 500k. Single people as well. It’s not everywhere obviously but it’s there if you look. I didn’t go to uni and I bought a house for over 500k. The “it’s everyone else’s fault” attitude is very common in people under 30, unfortunately that attitude doesn’t get you far in life. I’ll take the boomer attitude over a defeatist one all day.

Ok boomer.

 

[Yawkey way]

Yep we had it good in the old days. In the 90s I bought a house wth my girlfriend, we had high interest rates and basic jobs being young. We had enough left over to both have nice cars and an overseas holiday every year. That house cost $160,000 in Elwood. One persons wage would pay it off in 8 years back then.

That house would now be around $2 million, a person leaving school and buying a house might be on $50,000 each, one person's wage would take 40 years. And if interest rates go up....well.

Even if you say the median is now $1,000,000 it's still 20 years.

Free uni, free health care, cheap utilities that were public owned.

Yes and it was even easier at other points but it’s incorrect to imply it was always that easy or that people didn’t need to make compromises.

Free uni and free health care were also quite brief, you may have been lucky enough to benefit from being right in that zone but many people weren’t. It’s just not true to paint a picture of a rainbow and lollipops past were everything was either free or cheap. At various times in the past a lot of people have worked hard and lived lives far less affluent than people today including poor access to health care, University and affordable housing.

The information is all there but people need to look at bit further than just the increase in house prices in percentage terms or as a multiple of the median wage. If that’s all people look at then yes it looks less than ideal but that’s not a fair picture imo. Dual income, child care payments, good god people are receiving multiples of Newstart in childcare payments yet don’t think they receive welfare, it’s laughable.

Imo houses prices will eventually take a hit and then more than likely growth will remain fairly flat for a prolonged period. With no investment properties and four kids I’d love to see house prices more affordable, I just don’t subscribe to the woe is me blame game. I see a lot of people travelling the world, driving new imported cars and generally living the good life while complaining about boomers and house prices.

God forbid that someone point out that there are still people who work smart and save money who seem to be managing to get on the property ladder.

 

[Yawkey way]

I'm not talking about houses to rent, and if you were talking about houses to buy then you're quite incorrect. Good luck buying a house in any suburb in Melbourne for less than 500 thousand dollars. Good luck finding a job that you could pay that mortgage back with, without a uni degree that will set you back a further 50 thousand dollars. Good luck finding any job in the few locations around the entire country you can buy a house for less than 200 grand. Also, why should we have to give up the lifestyle everyone desires? The people buying houses 20-30 years ago working 2 minimum wage jobs and getting 19% interest rates as you claim didn't.

Things were absolutely not cheaper 20-30 years ago. That is an absolute joke and I'm now convinced you're taking the piss. Housing prices have increased nearly 10 fold the last 25 years in Melbourne. It's about 5 fold if you take into account inflation rates. You know what hasn't increased 5 fold over the last 25 years? Wages. I'm guessing you went back to the one year Australia was in recession in the 80s and went "look see? they had high interest rates too". And failed to understand that high interest rates on low priced properties are cheaper than high interest rates on high priced properties. Especially considering the exponentially longer time required to pay back loans of a significantly larger amount.

Boomer isn't an age bracket anymore, it's a mindset; so I've got two words for you.

Ok boomer.

You’re right there’s no way way you can buy a house in most established suburbs for $500,000.

Given that we have an exploding population and we’re trying to increase density and limit sprawl isn’t it a better question to ask what can I get for $500,000. I’m pretty sure you can find apartments in some nice locations for that. I wouldn’t get too bent out of shape about housing prices, how likely do you think it is that prices can just continue to climb, not likely is my bet.

Constantly worrying about how much other people make or how easy someone or another group had it is also a useless exercise. I’m not chuffed about our population growth, tradies wages etc, I liked it when it was a short drive to the country, the coast was empty and so on. What do you think my chances are of getting most people who arrived after say 1980 to piss off back to their place of origin. I might add that’s just the first thing on my wish list, I want telecom, the SEC, the gas and fuel Corp, conductors on trams all back as they were.

Crusty why would you have a $50,000 uni debt, I still have three at uni and that seems very high. If you do post grad study by research it’s covered by the government, you don’t run up more debt although you’re still not earning.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

You’re right there’s no way way you can buy a house in most established suburbs for $500,000.

Given that we have an exploding population and we’re trying to increase density and limit sprawl isn’t it a better question to ask what can I get for $500,000. I’m pretty sure you can find apartments in some nice locations for that. I wouldn’t get too bent out of shape about housing prices, how likely do you think it is that prices can just continue to climb, not likely is my bet.

Constantly worrying about how much other people make or how easy someone or another group had it is also a useless exercise. I’m not chuffed about our population growth, tradies wages etc, I liked it when it was a short drive to the country, the coast was empty and so on. What do you think my chances are of getting most people who arrived after say 1980 to piss off back to their place of origin. I might add that’s just the first thing on my wish list, I want telecom, the SEC, the gas and fuel Corp, conductors on trams all back as they were.

Crusty why would you have a $50,000 uni debt, I still have three at uni and that seems very high. If you do post grad study by research it’s covered by the government, you don’t run up more debt although you’re still not earning.

Not long ago you could get a house in the outer burbs for $500 000. ( Multiculturalism is good right ). When the rates went down, the houses shot up $100 000.
Seems people have no consideration for what a house is worth, its more to do with what they can afford to pay each month.
Its going to be messy if the rates ever go up. Anyone remember 15% ?

 

[Yawkey way]

Not long ago you could get a house in the outer burbs for $500 000. ( Multiculturalism is good right ). When the rates went down, the houses shot up $100 000.
Seems people have no consideration for what a house is worth, its more to do with what they can afford to pay each month.
Its going to be messy if the rates ever go up. Anyone remember 15% ?

Forget 15%, imo it would only take something north of 6.5% and the market would be in a world of hurt.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Forget 15%, imo it would only take something north of 6.5% and the market would be in a world of hurt.

I agree, that would double the payments , that most people are already stretching to achieve.
It also concerns me a bit that the worlds economy is largely in the hands of the Chinese.
I have a tendency to think that when the roll out of communism was stopped at Vietnam, they decided to conquer by other means.

 

[Cornish]

Its going to be messy if the rates ever go up. Anyone remember 15% ?

We were paying just south of 16% back in the late 80's our variable rate was originally 7.5% on a $125000
house.

Now to put that in context my wife and i had a combined take home wage of $380 per week and a monthly house payment of
$1350, we only finished paying for said house 2years ago, yay we are rich, wish i was, but we arnt, we cant eat the house to live on.

Us baby boomers had it so good, oh wow when i started work i was on $19 a week, a full adult wage was $35 a week.

 

[Yawkey way]

I agree, that would double the payments , that most people are already stretching to achieve.
It also concerns me a bit that the worlds economy is largely in the hands of the Chinese.
I have a tendency to think that when the roll out of communism was stopped at Vietnam, they decided to conquer by other means.

Definitely know how to play the long game.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

We were paying just south of 16% back in the late 80's our variable rate was originally 7.5% on a $125000
house.

Now to put that in context my wife and i had a combined take home wage of $380 per week and a monthly house payment of
$1350, we only finished paying for said house 2years ago, yay we are rich, wish i was, but we arnt, we cant eat the house to live on.

Us baby boomers had it so good, oh wow when i started work i was on $19 a week, a full adult wage was $35 a week.

And the rates go up.
If you complain they drive past and revalue your place at the real value, and they go up even more.

Still it would be nice not to have that mortgage payment.
I wish we'd stuck by our original house, maybe just extended a bit.

 

[gringo2011]

Yes and it was even easier at other points but it’s incorrect to imply it was always that easy or that people didn’t need to make compromises.

Free uni and free health care were also quite brief, you may have been lucky enough to benefit from being right in that zone but many people weren’t. It’s just not true to paint a picture of a rainbow and lollipops past were everything was either free or cheap. At various times in the past a lot of people have worked hard and lived lives far less affluent than people today including poor access to health care, University and affordable housing.

The information is all there but people need to look at bit further than just the increase in house prices in percentage terms or as a multiple of the median wage. If that’s all people look at then yes it looks less than ideal but that’s not a fair picture imo. Dual income, child care payments, good god people are receiving multiples of Newstart in childcare payments yet don’t think they receive welfare, it’s laughable.

Imo houses prices will eventually take a hit and then more than likely growth will remain fairly flat for a prolonged period. With no investment properties and four kids I’d love to see house prices more affordable, I just don’t subscribe to the woe is me blame game. I see a lot of people travelling the world, driving new imported cars and generally living the good life while complaining about boomers and house prices.

God forbid that someone point out that there are still people who work smart and save money who seem to be managing to get on the property ladder.

You can do it but the WWI and WWII generations set everything up for prosperity and fairness and then greed eroded it away under the boomers watch. I went to see Thomas Picketty when he was in Australia, his figures are frightening. Wealth disparity is increasing and already worse than any time since the feudal era. He talked about the saturation of wealth at the top end. The US has had suer rich taxes that went to some astronomical figure like 90% in the early 20th century. They say 75% is the ideal in economics but right now billionaires have just started paying less than middle and working classes.

It will change by force or by design as more people are pushed out of low skilled jobs and automation, service economies need something underpinning them as well. The world's economic model needs a fundamental overhaul to cope with climate, loss of manufacturing jobs, concentration of wealth, corporate power redistribution etc. It will have to change at some point but no-one seems to have an appetitive for visionary change. If they don't history will repeat and it will get ugly.

I find the nonsense that the super rich will leave the UK in minutes if Corbin wins laughable, but he won't win anyway because the press have hatcheted him so much as to be unelectable. The west isn't prepared for the redistribution of money to the asian economies either, we are still try to fight them instead of going in.

For The First Time In History, U.S. Billionaires Paid A Lower Tax Rate Than The Working Class: What Should We Do About It?

U.S. billionaires paid a lower tax rate than the working class in 2018.

www.forbes.com

 

[gringo2011]

We were paying just south of 16% back in the late 80's our variable rate was originally 7.5% on a $125000
house.

Now to put that in context my wife and i had a combined take home wage of $380 per week and a monthly house payment of
$1350, we only finished paying for said house 2years ago, yay we are rich, wish i was, but we arnt, we cant eat the house to live on.

Us baby boomers had it so good, oh wow when i started work i was on $19 a week, a full adult wage was $35 a week.

The original gen Z Cornish, too many Sticky Date Puddings and Haute cuisine back in those days maybe? And then there was the pink polo shirt, white high- waisted trouser and hair gel supply to keep up with.

There is always compromise, I just think it's much harder now.

 

[gringo2011]

I agree, that would double the payments , that most people are already stretching to achieve.
It also concerns me a bit that the worlds economy is largely in the hands of the Chinese.
I have a tendency to think that when the roll out of communism was stopped at Vietnam, they decided to conquer by other means.

The Chinese model is very good for them, they don't waste money on elections, can buy in the name of the country using their sovereign wealth and no-one can ask questions. As a business model dictatorial government dressed as communism is great.

 

[Cornish]

The original gen Z Cornish, too many Sticky Date Puddings and Haute cuisine back in those days maybe? And then there was the pink polo shirt, white high- waisted trouser and hair gel supply to keep up with.

There is always compromise, I just think it's much harder now.

I can remember going to work at the Steelworks with a sandwich, no butter, just hot melted lard and hot turnip, we were broker than broke and about to have the car repossessed, so i was doing 16hour days or doublers as we used to call them to make ends meet, would love to see the modern generations living like that.

My daughter and son are both in their own homes, no help from me, and my nephew just bought his, he had to go out in the boonies but hes starting somewhere, head down arse up, it aint that much harder if any at all, you have to work for it and pull your head and your belt in.

Too many must haves from my observation, 2 new cars on the mortgage 3 tv's on the mortgage look at me look at me on the mortgage, people living beyond their means and blaming everyone and everything for it.

At the end of the day i dont care, i have worked very very hard for what i have and am ready to retire, see you all out there in the beautiful country of ours, after i cash in my bayside home and move down the coast where houses are cheaper

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I can remember going to work at the Steelworks with a sandwich, no butter, just hot melted lard and hot turnip, we were broker than broke and about to have the car repossessed, so i was doing 16hour days or doublers as we used to call them to make ends meet, would love to see the modern generations living like that.

My daughter and son are both in their own homes, no help from me, and my nephew just bought his, he had to go out in the boonies but hes starting somewhere, head down arse up, it aint that much harder if any at all, you have to work for it and pull your head and your belt in.

Too many must haves from my observation, 2 new cars on the mortgage 3 tv's on the mortgage look at me look at me on the mortgage, people living beyond their means and blaming everyone and everything for it.

At the end of the day i dont care, i have worked very very hard for what i have and am ready to retire, see you all out there in the beautiful country of ours, after i cash in my bayside home and move down the coast where houses are cheaper

Working hard is never the be all and end all though.
You can work really hard selling coffee and get nowhere.

Got to say though, i was amazed at the "underpaid" Woolworth's employee, in charge of a small team of shelf packers, earning 70K/year but should have got 80.

 

[Cornish]

Working hard is never the be all and end all though.
You can work really hard selling coffee and get nowhere.

Got to say though, i was amazed at the "underpaid" Woolworth's employee, in charge of a small team of shelf packers, earning 70K/year but should have got 80.

If hes selling coffee during the day and getting nowhere, then its time to double up and work a bar in the evening

 

[Crusty Undies]

I can remember going to work at the Steelworks with a sandwich, no butter, just hot melted lard and hot turnip, we were broker than broke and about to have the car repossessed, so i was doing 16hour days or doublers as we used to call them to make ends meet, would love to see the modern generations living like that.

My daughter and son are both in their own homes, no help from me, and my nephew just bought his, he had to go out in the boonies but hes starting somewhere, head down arse up, it aint that much harder if any at all, you have to work for it and pull your head and your belt in.

Too many must haves from my observation, 2 new cars on the mortgage 3 tv's on the mortgage look at me look at me on the mortgage, people living beyond their means and blaming everyone and everything for it.

At the end of the day i dont care, i have worked very very hard for what i have and am ready to retire, see you all out there in the beautiful country of ours, after i cash in my bayside home and move down the coast where houses are cheaper

Yeah ok. Even though everything is worth more and wages are worth less "it's not any harder". Righto. Good luck finding a place to work 16 hours if you need to with no training. You have to "work for free just to get some experience" now. I'm just sick of people telling me how easy it is now when statistics clearly indicate otherwise.

And maybe you did have it harder Cornish. But most people definitely didn't have it harder than we do. As Gringo said, wealth disparity is the biggest it's been since the middle ages.

But you keep telling all us entitled young Gen Z kids you call millennials how easy we have it and how "back in your day it was way harder".

 

[gringo2011]

I can remember going to work at the Steelworks with a sandwich, no butter, just hot melted lard and hot turnip, we were broker than broke and about to have the car repossessed, so i was doing 16hour days or doublers as we used to call them to make ends meet, would love to see the modern generations living like that.

My daughter and son are both in their own homes, no help from me, and my nephew just bought his, he had to go out in the boonies but hes starting somewhere, head down arse up, it aint that much harder if any at all, you have to work for it and pull your head and your belt in.

Too many must haves from my observation, 2 new cars on the mortgage 3 tv's on the mortgage look at me look at me on the mortgage, people living beyond their means and blaming everyone and everything for it.

At the end of the day i dont care, i have worked very very hard for what i have and am ready to retire, see you all out there in the beautiful country of ours, after i cash in my bayside home and move down the coast where houses are cheaper

I'm soft myself so have a soft spot for youth. I have lived a privileged life and not really struggled ever, if I hadn't had parents who could help me out I'd have probably been a homeless bum in a doorway somewhere.

Good on you for making it work out for yourself. I thought you were joking at first, a butterless lard and turnip sandwiches sounds like Cornish mines in the 1800s.
I think the generation battle is pointless still, lots of young people work overtime without pay and the old manufacturing jobs aren't around any more. It's a different world good or bad.