Discussion Random Discussion

[jwikked]

All Three of the Flockers , how dare they , its sh1t like this that sends me over the edge, I didnt spend hours and hours organizing donations from our group and donating hundreds of dollars so these lazy fat bastards can put the money in their bank account , ScMo needs to get off his ass and do something about these crooks , Damn im so fuc,,,ing p1ssed off

What are they meant to do? Give it all away now? What happens in a months time when more communities are affected by the fires but the Red Cross has already spent everything?

It's a beat up over nothing. It would be poor money management if they had spent it all.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Who said spend it all now ?

 

[gringo2011]

I can accept that different energy generators can be privatised ( though it tends to favour lower capital costs vs better efficiency which is bad for the environment, so then we need to have a system where they aren't allowed to just build anything they like, such as second hand DC8 engines ). I can accept the privatisation of the supply infrastructure, though it has essentially created a monopoly, which now needs to be controlled. At least there are real costs involved in that. ( When it was operated by the SEC , wooden power poles were going to die out, the concrete pole solution was gong to deliver real maintenance savings over the long term. Now its short term fix ...wood all the way ).
But the energy companies are almost virtual companies. Their sole purpose is to bill us.

Yeah, there is all tis legal competition stuff too. Because Telstra had the monopoly on telephones in the 90s so as to not be a monopoly they were forced to pay to set up Optus. Competition law in the free market economy is great if you know how to scam it.

 

[Stewart66]

Yeah, imagine if a non for profit, say like a government who didn't need bigger amounts for share holders every year and didn't price collude to increase all at the same times so that consumers have competition but not real actual value. That would be awesome. What kind of utopia could possibly have all that and free health care and education. We'd need companies to pay tax and to get some of the billionaires to stop sending money into tax havens for their own avoidance. Imagine if instead of spending on refugees in the pacific we spent on buying back our energy production and distribution capabilities.

We could do it for things like Health insurance, communications etc. It would be ideal.

Yeah like having power lines under ground particularly in the bush but that would be too sensible .

and the naysayers will say not possible when some private estates were built , my old man did some
30 years ago mainly Golf courses had everything below ground.

Underground Power Cables: Costs and Benefits

Current Issues Brief 11 1996-97 John McIlwraith Science, Technology, Environment and Resources Group Contents Major Issues Introduction Issues Traffic Hazard Tree Hazard The Costs of Sinking Power Lines in an Inner Suburb Progress New South Wales Queensland V

www.aph.gov.au

 

[Stewart66]

Yeah, imagine if a non for profit, say like a government who didn't need bigger amounts for share holders every year and didn't price collude to increase all at the same times so that consumers have competition but not real actual value. That would be awesome. What kind of utopia could possibly have all that and free health care and education. We'd need companies to pay tax and to get some of the billionaires to stop sending money into tax havens for their own avoidance. Imagine if instead of spending on refugees in the pacific we spent on buying back our energy production and distribution capabilities.

We could do it for things like Health insurance, communications etc. It would be ideal.

and less Lobbyists

Brendan Nelson takes job with Boeing, weeks after stepping down as head of Australian War Memorial

Nelson was criticised during his stint at AWM for allowing weapons companies such as Boeing to act as corporate sponsors

www.theguardian.com

 

[jwikked]

Who said spend it all now ?

Then what are you mad about? They're not going to keep the money under the mattress lol.

 

[jwikked]

Yeah like having power lines under ground particularly in the bush but that would be too sensible .

and the naysayers will say not possible when some private estates were built , my old man did some
30 years ago mainly Golf courses had everything below ground.

Easy to say, but in the hills where to get them underground you've got to dig on difficult terrain, through rocks. Sure, it's possible.. But incredibly expensive.

It's one thing to bury powerlines on a golf course, and another thing to do it in rock.

 

[Stewart66]

Easy to say, but in the hills where to get them underground you've got to dig on difficult terrain, through rocks. Sure, it's possible.. But incredibly expensive.

It's one thing to bury powerlines on a golf course, and another thing to do it in rock.

The interesting thing Is the channels are already done for roadsides with pipes now .



Estimated cost will be $100 billion to do it nationally or you can have 8 Submarines.

We already chose it is 8 Submarines.

 

[StFly]

Diesel back-up on power cut days - MPNEWS

DIESEL generators have been brought onto the Mornington Peninsula to avoid power outages over summer. Outages can be expected up to five times each summer, usually when thousands of holiday-makers turn on their air-conditioners at around the same time. Network provider United Energy says the...

www.mpnews.com.au

What's wrong with this picture?
If they can have Coal/Gas/Solar/Wind with Diesel Backup, why don't i just have Solar on my roof ,and a small diesel for Backup?
Then i can go off grid and avoid the transmission costs and horrendous markup.

Stuff it if they can have Dodo energy, why not have ME energy.

More seriously, what is actually involved in an Energy Supplier? I assume they have largely computerised system that buys at the lowest price and collects data , mostly from smart meters, for billing.
I wonder if that could be done by "not for profit" Co-op organisations, and given that everyone needs it , why was that aspect privatised in the first place?

.

Telecommunication wise it was gov -> delegate to state authority, so what you had was when states ran out of cash, they had to sell off assets and like Victoria in a way that included utilities to the market just like they did land unlocks.

As the government eventually lost delegation and had control of framework, they then effectively followed suit, so like what happened with Telstra (T1-3 in the 90's), you had a staggered sell off because utilities were gradually "waste" income since it was tied to things like expenses being worn direct.

Obviously with the NBN now being a thing, they've had to largely buy the same shit back, only instead of now dealing with delegation to states who then subcontract to run, they deal with privately owned companies and lobbyists who push agenda directly to government as a much better solution. Unlike Australia Post or the ABC which is still SOE despite acting as a statutory company, you largely see how these three entities have largely operated over the past 30 odd years as a case study of private v government companies in the public interest.

Remembering of course it was only the 1980's when the ABC wasn't a mouthpiece organisation and "fair broadcasting" was introduced.

tldr is, they sold for lots of cash when people needed it or didn't want to be holding a perceived lemon.

 

[bergholt]

The smoothing of costs actually works against the system.

Imagine if you had an indicator, with green orange and red. When it went to red you were paying the maximum cost for your Energy. Green the minimum.
People might be inclined to not use their washing machine, their dishwasher, even turn their aircon off, if they knew they were paying huge spot prices.
By smoothing it , you take away any incentive to turn off your appliances at those peak times.

Yes, a mate started a power company called Amber Electric which does basically what you’re saying:

Renewable Energy Provider | Save With Wholesale Electricity

Amber is a renewable energy retailer built differently. We give households direct access to wholesale electricity and automate batteries and EVs to save.

www.amberelectric.com.au

They’re just launching in Victoria, worth checking out.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Ok expert, your right again

Whatever.

You can go round thinking the Red Cross are evil.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Yeah like having power lines under ground particularly in the bush but that would be too sensible .

and the naysayers will say not possible when some private estates were built , my old man did some
30 years ago mainly Golf courses had everything below ground.

Underground Power Cables: Costs and Benefits

Current Issues Brief 11 1996-97 John McIlwraith Science, Technology, Environment and Resources Group Contents Major Issues Introduction Issues Traffic Hazard Tree Hazard The Costs of Sinking Power Lines in an Inner Suburb Progress New South Wales Queensland V

www.aph.gov.au

It sucked in the city, we were forced to use buggy ADSL ( until just now with the NBN) while those in older area's with crappy above ground power got Optic fibres stapled to their poles.

But i disagree that "national " below ground power, was ever a " no brainer " .

Underground power line - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Undergrounding is more expensive, since the cost of burying cables at transmission voltages is several times greater than overhead power lines, and the life-cycle cost of an underground power cable is two to four times the cost of an overhead power line. Above-ground lines cost around $10 per foot and underground lines cost in the range of $20 to $40 per foot.[7] In highly urbanized areas, the cost of underground transmission can be 10–14 times as expensive as overhead.[8] However, these calculations may neglect the cost of power interruptions. The lifetime cost difference is smaller for lower-voltage distribution networks, on the range of 12-28% higher than overhead lines of equivalent voltage.[9]

Operations are more difficult since the high reactive power of underground cables produces large charging currents and so makes voltage control more difficult. Large charging currents arise due to the higher capacitance from underground power lines and thus limits how long an AC line can be. In order to avoid the capacitance issues when undergrounding long distance transmission lines, HVDC lines can be used as they do not suffer from the same issue

Here's a good presentation from the USA.

https://www.puc.nh.gov/2008IceStorm/ST&E%20Presentations/NEI%20Underground%20Presentation%2006-09-09.pdf

So you get a small town like Omeo , not close to any other town.
Population 400. Who is going to pay for their lines to be placed underground?
What about a few farms on the end of an isolated road. Who pays for that?

As far as fire risk goes, these are probably the ones most likely to cause an issue.

If it was a no-brainer, everyone would have underground power and we would be left sitting here thinking we were idiots. ( some of you obviously think that everything we have done in Australia is in fact idiotic ) but i'm not seeing the whole world rolling out the no-brainer solution.

To me its horses for courses.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Wow , hit a nerve did i , you seem pretty close to the red cross , Anyway i wasn't just pointing my finger at them and at no stage did i say throw money out the window but you make it suit yourself if you like , The facts are

Red Cross have given out 30 Mil of 115 Mill
Salvos 11 Mill of 43 Mill
Vinnies 1 Mill of 12.5 Mill

 

[CursingFijian]

Does anyone else get two of every photo or gif appear when viewing BF on their mobile device?

I’m not sure why that happens or how I stop it but it’s infuriating.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Does anyone else get two of every photo or gif appear when viewing BF on their mobile device?

I’m not sure why that happens or how I stop it but it’s infuriating.

I find that happens if I load a photo or gif direct from my device storage, but not if I use an image sharing website.

Not sure why that is, but it is.

Hence I try do mine via the second method because it annoys me also.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Wow , hit a nerve did i , you seem pretty close to the red cross , Anyway i wasn't just pointing my finger at them and at no stage did i say throw money out the window but you make it suit yourself if you like , The facts are

Red Cross have given out 30 Mil of 115 Mill
Salvos 11 Mill of 43 Mill
Vinnies 1 Mill of 12.5 Mill

Yeah most everyone else understands why.

 

[gringo2011]

Just saw this on facebook. Another reason to hate pollies.

 

[gringo2011]

A bit at the end of this on the electricity market. Some decent points on policy under Howard.

Australia still plagued by destructive policies of John Howard, our worst prime minister

Don't blame Turnbull: almost every trouble afflicting Australia had its genesis in a Howard government decision.

www.smh.com.au

 

[Stewart66]

It sucked in the city, we were forced to use buggy ADSL ( until just now with the NBN) while those in older area's with crappy above ground power got Optic fibres stapled to their poles.

But i disagree that "national " below ground power, was ever a " no brainer " .

Underground power line - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Undergrounding is more expensive, since the cost of burying cables at transmission voltages is several times greater than overhead power lines, and the life-cycle cost of an underground power cable is two to four times the cost of an overhead power line. Above-ground lines cost around $10 per foot and underground lines cost in the range of $20 to $40 per foot.[7] In highly urbanized areas, the cost of underground transmission can be 10–14 times as expensive as overhead.[8] However, these calculations may neglect the cost of power interruptions. The lifetime cost difference is smaller for lower-voltage distribution networks, on the range of 12-28% higher than overhead lines of equivalent voltage.[9]

Operations are more difficult since the high reactive power of underground cables produces large charging currents and so makes voltage control more difficult. Large charging currents arise due to the higher capacitance from underground power lines and thus limits how long an AC line can be. In order to avoid the capacitance issues when undergrounding long distance transmission lines, HVDC lines can be used as they do not suffer from the same issue

Here's a good presentation from the USA.

https://www.puc.nh.gov/2008IceStorm/ST&E%20Presentations/NEI%20Underground%20Presentation%2006-09-09.pdf

So you get a small town like Omeo , not close to any other town.
Population 400. Who is going to pay for their lines to be placed underground?
What about a few farms on the end of an isolated road. Who pays for that?

As far as fire risk goes, these are probably the ones most likely to cause an issue.

If it was a no-brainer, everyone would have underground power and we would be left sitting here thinking we were idiots. ( some of you obviously think that everything we have done in Australia is in fact idiotic ) but i'm not seeing the whole world rolling out the no-brainer solution.

To me its horses for courses.

Maybe my old man knows a thing or two about roads (rest his soul ) underground could have be easily done.

Not going to argue pointless ..his arguments with state government were the same when they tendered
for Monash Freeway job , looked at the plans and laughed they had traffic lights for example on Burke
Road intersection & Toorak Road intersection going across a Freeway .
, suggestions was made ignored withdrew tender didn‘t want to build it to be laughed at by engineers.
Suggestion was also made rail line to run down Centre of Tullamarine freeway ignored ridiculous idea , Peninsula freeway 3 lane Highway each way was approved by Hamer government 30 years ago to Portsea ,I know my old man
was going to Build it guess what was going down the side of road all under ground with the curb & channel
thats right ( Power ) for the whole of the Mornington Peninsula ... it’s what happens with Vision why did it
not happen ......corrupt bloody politicians.

Why doesn’t anything get done here ...consultants , Lobbyists , corrupt Politicians ..

 

[Stewart66]

Maybe my old man knows a thing or two about roads (rest his soul ) underground could have be easily done.

Not going to argue pointless ..his arguments with state government were the same when they tendered
for Monash Freeway job , looked at the plans and laughed they had traffic lights for example on Burke
Road intersection & Toorak Road intersection going across a Freeway .
, suggestions was made ignored withdrew tender didn‘t want to build it to be laughed at by engineers.
Suggestion was also made rail line to run down Centre of Tullamarine freeway ignored ridiculous idea , Peninsula freeway 3 lane Highway each way was approved by Hamer government 30 years ago to Portsea ,I know my old man
was going to Build it guess what was going down the side of road all under ground with the curb & channel
thats right ( Power ) for the whole of the Mornington Peninsula ... it’s what happens with Vision why did it
not happen ......corrupt bloody politicians.

Why doesn’t anything get done here ...consultants , Lobbyists , corrupt Politicians ..

This is a country with vision .

World's first electrified road for charging vehicles opens in Sweden

Stretch of road outside Stockholm transfers energy from two tracks of rail in the road, recharging the batteries of electric cars and trucks

www.theguardian.com

 

[jwikked]

Wow , hit a nerve did i , you seem pretty close to the red cross , Anyway i wasn't just pointing my finger at them and at no stage did i say throw money out the window but you make it suit yourself if you like , The facts are

Red Cross have given out 30 Mil of 115 Mill
Salvos 11 Mill of 43 Mill
Vinnies 1 Mill of 12.5 Mill

Those aren't facts. Well, I can't speak for the Salvos or Vinnies, but Red Cross have $61 million left, which makes your figure of $30 million handed out false.

Australian Bushfires

Report: January 2020–June 2021

www.redcross.org.au

 

[CaptainRisky]

Those aren't facts. Well, I can't speak for the Salvos or Vinnies, but Red Cross have $61 million left, which makes your figure of $30 million handed out false.

Australian Bushfires

Report: January 2020–June 2021

www.redcross.org.au

At the time of the post they were facts , i guess it all depends which source you are using

 

[jwikked]

At the time of the post they were facts , i guess it all depends which source you are using

The website was created the day before your post, it’s either a fact or not and you went with inaccurate info.

 

[gringo2011]

Maybe my old man knows a thing or two about roads (rest his soul ) underground could have be easily done.

Not going to argue pointless ..his arguments with state government were the same when they tendered
for Monash Freeway job , looked at the plans and laughed they had traffic lights for example on Burke
Road intersection & Toorak Road intersection going across a Freeway .
, suggestions was made ignored withdrew tender didn‘t want to build it to be laughed at by engineers.
Suggestion was also made rail line to run down Centre of Tullamarine freeway ignored ridiculous idea , Peninsula freeway 3 lane Highway each way was approved by Hamer government 30 years ago to Portsea ,I know my old man
was going to Build it guess what was going down the side of road all under ground with the curb & channel
thats right ( Power ) for the whole of the Mornington Peninsula ... it’s what happens with Vision why did it
not happen ......corrupt bloody politicians.

Why doesn’t anything get done here ...consultants , Lobbyists , corrupt Politicians ..

I had an uncle who used to work for the SEC in the old days. He was saying under Kennett they had tabled putting all the electrical cables underground when they had to upgrade all the lines. He said it was a bigger initial cost but saving in tree maintenance, vehicle / storm damage etc and maintenance, would make it cheaper over all. As all politicians seem to do they went with the cheaper now which has cost many times the sunk cost of burying them.

In Caulfield we have huge old trees that have to be cut a few times a year. Crews of arborists with cherry pickers, climbing equipment and booms get out and bifurcate them around lines. Just one tiny street would cost 20 grand a year minimum. Times that across Melbourne over 20 years and that cost must be millions and millions of dollars. In the 90s the sunk cost was probably under 20 million for the whole metro area. Infrastructure never gets cheaper when you leave it for later. Unfortunately politicians care about books looking good in their 4 year period, not long term betterment.

 

[gringo2011]

A friend bought some wine from fire effected wineries as charity the other day. Great idea to help your yourself and give direct cash to people who's businesses help to employ plenty of people. I encourage any one who can afford it to by direct from wineries. Can recommend Petaluma, Henschke and Bird in Hand.

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www.adelaidenow.com.au

The wine growers and makers devastated by bushfire – and how you can help - Young Gun of Wine

This fire season, of course, comes during a sustained drought, water stress and record-breaking temperatures. Now more than ever, Australian consumers and wine lovers need to rally behind the industry and support our farmers, growers and wine producers. The most important thing is for tourists...

younggunofwine.com

Dozens of Bushfire-Affected Vineyards Need Your Help

Even buying a single bottle of wine can support the 17 or more properties ravaged by last week’s bushfires.

www.broadsheet.com.au