Discussion Random Discussion

[gringo2011]

Another Churchill f up. How this mass murderer, and military incompetent get his reputation an example of the victors writing history.
In saying that, I still acknowledge him as a significant historical figure.

I'm distantly related to him. I actually don't know much about him apart from his famine response, but have heard negative things about him for years. I think I've avoided reading about him so I can live in denial. Some of the previous generations pillaged India long before WC too. I researched a relative who'd died there, he'd gone there and made a fortune stealing everything that was and wasn't tied down, karma got him though. British aristocracy were mostly pirates in nice clothes. India was ridiculously wealthy before they were raided. They came home and built huge estates and used their wealth to oppress the poor back home.

 

[Joffaboy]

You wouldn't see the Trump cultists and extreme racist far right do this ..

London Black Lives Matter supporter carries injured 'far-right' protester to safety during protests

A man identified as a far-right protester has been carried to safety by a Black Lives Matter demonstrator during protests in London.

www.sbs.com.au

 

[triggering bro]

FMD!!!! - roflmao - talk about a relevance bypass.

When were the JC laws enacted - the 1870's

By who - a southern white wealthy group called the Southern Democrats.

Who are they now - Republicans

I suggest you try reading history rather than believing memes.

I’m well aware of history but thanks for the lesson.

The Democratic Party regardless of location enacted the JC laws & that’s written in history. Guess which party opposed that law?

 

[StCicatriz]

I’m well aware of history but thanks for the lesson.

The Democratic Party regardless of location enacted the JC laws & that’s written in history. Guess which party opposed that law?

The democrats from 1870 are vastly different to today. Same for the republican party.

Do you really think it has any relevance to what's happening now?

Its just so completely different.

Its not helpful at all to any political discussion to bring it up as it just muddies the waters and has no relevance to the issues we have now.

Its nothing more than cheap point scoring.

I lived in the states for 3 years. Their politics are extremely complex. I lived in a deep south city. The best way I can describe it, is their country is a living breathing contradiction built on hypocrisy.

Theres no hard and fast rule for anything. There's no republicans good democrats bad or vice versa because they chop and change so god damn much. If you don't believe it read how much the Southern democrats changed over the years:

Southern Democrats - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

As someone said they actually end up becoming republicans because the republican party started to move more and more into conservatism.

The republican party was initially a very solid liberal and progressive party. But its now solidly conservative. If they were aligned the way they are now back in 1870 they would have been overwhelmingly in favor of the JC laws.

Good luck to anyone getting any kind of meaningful change there. Especially in the social media age of misinformation and point scoring exercises.

 

[pebblesofsand]

I’m well aware of history but thanks for the lesson.

The Democratic Party regardless of location enacted the JC laws & that’s written in history. Guess which party opposed that law?

Like I said relevance by pass with absolutely zero connection to the events of today.

So it's either being completely disingenuous or not having a full understanding the full historical perspective.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

You wouldn't see the Trump cultists and extreme racist far right do this ..

London Black Lives Matter supporter carries injured 'far-right' protester to safety during protests

A man identified as a far-right protester has been carried to safety by a Black Lives Matter demonstrator during protests in London.

www.sbs.com.au

Not with today’s media feed anyway.

 

[gringo2011]

I wish I'd learn to shut up about politics. I just noticed Mowman has cancelled his account and Kegs on Legs before him. It's actually a shame those guys have walked. We should never have gone there, They were some of the better posters on here for a long time. Hopefully they come back at some point.

 

[Animal Cager]

I think the Churchill thing relates to his very mixed record in public life. He was certainly an imperialist and white supremacist, but many were in his day; certainly most of his privileged background. His opposition to Indian independence was more vehement and lasted longer than almost anybody. He was, on the other hand, a social reformer as a young Liberal, crucial to the first welfare benefits, introduced in 1912. He undid that good work in 1926 when he sent the army in against peaceful strikers during the General Strike. Later, however, his steadfast opposition to Nazism was crucial to Britain during the war. He's a divisive character, but I think most people, whether admirers of Churchill or not, want the statue to remain.

The late Roy Jenkins wrote a good biography of Churchill, which is positive overall but doesn't neglect his shortcomings. I would imagine he isn't too popular in Australia, due to his terrible handling of the Gallipoli campaign when First Lord of the Admiralty. One of his crazy ventures which cost so many lives.

By the way, I think your analogy of Black Lives Matter with Mein Kempf and Maoism is ludicrous.

I think we're in agreement on Churchill. I know he did some very bad things and was far from a Saint (no pun intended). Yet when the Nazi menace rolled through Europe he was the type of man needed and his efforts were heroic. If it weren't for Churchill, all of Europe including Britain, would've been a Nazi State possibly until the 1950s. The Nazis would have survived well beyond 1945.

On my comparison of BLM to the Nazis and Communist China, you could accuse me of hyperbole at the moment, but their tactics and messaging are straight from the authoritarian handbook. They're playing identity politics which is toxic and dangerous. And when identity politics draws the lines on a racial basis we're in trouble. That's exactly what happened in Europe 80/90 years ago.

 

[Animal Cager]

No because his track record of doing the opposite means no-one believes him. They need to push him aside and try someone with some ability to appeal to the masses. There must be some kind of centrist Republican that could heal some wounds.

In regard to pushing Trump aside, they have an election in November and they get to use their democratic right. However, in effect they have 2 choices, Trump or Biden.

If you owned a large business and needed to hire a CEO and you had to pick one of Trump or Biden. Who would you hire?

 

[StCicatriz]

I think we're in agreement on Churchill. I know he did some very bad things and was far from a Saint (no pun intended). Yet when the Nazi menace rolled through Europe he was the type of man needed and his efforts were heroic. If it weren't for Churchill, all of Europe including Britain, would've been a Nazi State possibly until the 1950s. The Nazis would have survived well beyond 1945.

On my comparison of BLM to the Nazis and Communist China, you could accuse me of hyperbole at the moment, but their tactics and messaging are straight from the authoritarian handbook. They're playing identity politics which is toxic and dangerous. And when identity politics draws the lines on a racial basis we're in trouble. That's exactly what happened in Europe 80/90 years ago.

Is this the same identity politics used to elect trump?

 

[StCicatriz]

In regard to pushing Trump aside, they have an election in November and they get to use their democratic right. However, in effect they have 2 choices, Trump or Biden.

If you owned a large business and needed to hire a CEO and you had to pick one of Trump or Biden. Who would you hire?

No good business would ever have those two as their candidates...

 

[Animal Cager]

You wouldn't see the Trump cultists and extreme racist far right do this ..

London Black Lives Matter supporter carries injured 'far-right' protester to safety during protests

A man identified as a far-right protester has been carried to safety by a Black Lives Matter demonstrator during protests in London.

www.sbs.com.au

Actually you would. Far right? Define? Racist?

 

[Animal Cager]

Is this the same identity politics used to elect trump?

And how were identity politics used to elect Trump?

Trump's election was more a rejection of Hillary, the Democrats and the political class.

 

[Animal Cager]

No good business would ever have those two as their candidates...

That wasn't my question. If you had to choose, which in effect is the position the American electorate are in, which one?

 

[StCicatriz]

And how were identity politics used to elect Trump?

Trump's election was more a rejection of Hillary, the Democrats and the political class.

Oh ok so identity politics can't exist for white people hey?

Opinion | Donald Trump’s Identity Politics (Published 2017)

The more white voters care about being white, the more they like President Trump.

www.nytimes.com

 

[StCicatriz]

That wasn't my question. If you had to choose, which in effect is the position the American electorate are in, which one?

I'm saying your question is stupid and has no relevance to the discussion.

Say your business is within the medical industry developing and selling specialised medical equipment. Do you think either would be capable as CEO?

Hell donald trump isn't even CEO material. The CEO takes direction from a board and implements their strategy by building an executive team and senior management suited to the boards direction.

Donald Trump is utterly incompetent in that regard and Biden is a career politician well past his used by date (something Trump shares).

 

[Yawkey way]

I wish I'd learn to shut up about politics. I just noticed Mowman has cancelled his account and Kegs on Legs before him. It's actually a shame those guys have walked. We should never have gone there, They were some of the better posters on here for a long time. Hopefully they come back at some point.

Just two more good posters gone, we’ve lost quite a few in the last year or so unfortunately.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

I wish I'd learn to shut up about politics. I just noticed Mowman has cancelled his account and Kegs on Legs before him. It's actually a shame those guys have walked. We should never have gone there, They were some of the better posters on here for a long time. Hopefully they come back at some point.

Never have gone where? What happened for them to leave?

 

[StCicatriz]

Just two more good posters gone, we’ve lost quite a few in the last year or so unfortunately.

Tbh i feel crap that I'm now replying to the political stuff here.

I liked the random articles and stuff that would show up in here.

But now its flooded with the stuff that was going into the PC thread which I wasn't reading and went out of my way to ignore.

Can we bring it back so we can keep this thread clean?

 

[Yawkey way]

Tbh i feel crap that I'm now replying to the political stuff here.

I liked the random articles and stuff that would show up in here.

But now its flooded with the stuff that was going into the PC thread which I wasn't reading and went out of my way to ignore.

Can we bring it back so we can keep this thread clean?

We all had enough to argue and laugh about with the football imo.

I did like some of the random topics there’s definitely been a few that were popular and helpful.

 

[Joffaboy]

Tbh i feel crap that I'm now replying to the political stuff here.

I liked the random articles and stuff that would show up in here.

But now its flooded with the stuff that was going into the PC thread which I wasn't reading and went out of my way to ignore.

Can we bring it back so we can keep this thread clean?

I don't understand this. Just don't go to the thread.
Why delete your account. There are two posters I have on ignore, a couple I don't ever respond to.
Really disappointed with Kegsie, was PM'ed a month ago about it. Had my issues with mowman but didn't want him to delete his account.

triggering 'bro warned is about a certain poster who had wrecked SS until banned.

I know that some posters have left because of that poster. Seems to be working the same magic on BF.

Here's hoping when the footy starts the two mentioned and others come back and contribute.

 

[Joffaboy]

You wouldn't see the Trump cultists and extreme racist far right do this ..

London Black Lives Matter supporter carries injured 'far-right' protester to safety during protests

A man identified as a far-right protester has been carried to safety by a Black Lives Matter demonstrator during protests in London.

www.sbs.com.au

Actually this is the rights reaction to peaceful protests

'Racist thugs' condemned after violent clashes with police, activists in London

British Prime Minister Boris Johnson condemns "racist thuggery" after violent London protests with more than 100 arrests.

www.smh.com.au

 

[Animal Cager]

Oh ok so identity politics can't exist for white people hey?

Opinion | Donald Trump’s Identity Politics (Published 2017)

The more white voters care about being white, the more they like President Trump.

www.nytimes.com

The article is paywalled and is an opinion piece.

I can't read it, don't tell me they're suggesting Trump targeted/rallied white nationalists in 2016? Now that in a multi-cultural nation of 320 million, would have been electoral suicide.

 

[Animal Cager]

Actually this is the rights reaction to peaceful protests

'Racist thugs' condemned after violent clashes with police, activists in London

British Prime Minister Boris Johnson condemns "racist thuggery" after violent London protests with more than 100 arrests.

www.smh.com.au

And you're surprised. You don't think BLM knew this would happen. When you get lunatic extermists on one side, lunatic extremists will emerge from the other side. Just as nature abhors a vacuum it also abhors an extreme imbalance. The BLM organisers would know this well.

The counter protests were intended to surround and protect statues only. Their communications invited people of all races, genders and persuasions to a peaceful event. They also said 'Violence will not be tolerated'. It appears their protest was hijacked by a group of far right extremists who want to exploit the situation. Bound to happen.

BLM have done the same thing for weeks and have incited the riot.

Europe in the 1920s, economic disasters, riots in the street and the extreme left were growing, this gave birth to the Fascists in Italy and Spain, then ultimately the Nazis in Germany.

 

[Animal Cager]

I'm saying your question is stupid and has no relevance to the discussion.

Say your business is within the medical industry developing and selling specialised medical equipment. Do you think either would be capable as CEO?

Hell donald trump isn't even CEO material. The CEO takes direction from a board and implements their strategy by building an executive team and senior management suited to the boards direction.

Donald Trump is utterly incompetent in that regard and Biden is a career politician well past his used by date (something Trump shares).

The question isn't stupid, its the only choice Americans have.