Discussion Random Discussion

[Joffaboy]

They've fudged the numbers. And it isn't just here it's all over the world. Incredible to see how many have died in America actually from COVID. 6%. I can only assume the other deaths would be regular deaths that happen in a normal year.

Prove it, it sounds like anecdotal evidence based on conspiracy theory and right wing group think.

 

[George]

Soley. It was a fact at the beginning of all this, that people with pre existing conditions were more vulnerable. It is weasel words. They are rising 190,000 in the US deaths from covid related causes.

And this doesn't count ongoing illness, ongoing respiratory conditions that could be for life, and it has emerged today that heart failure for young patients will become more prevalent as they get olderdue to weakening of the muscles around the heart caused by covid.

Add to that the deaths from non covid issues because the hospitals will be overrun.

To use one spurious statistic to say we should not be locked down is like saying Savage has an 80% D/E without looking at the measurement of a D/E and the outcomes of the disposal (turnovers).

I don't know what to believe anymore. I'm sure we are being lied to. And I still reckon it's not as serious as the government has made it out to be.

Prove it, it sounds like anecdotal evidence based on conspiracy theory and right wing group think.

Prove an assumption?

 

[Joffaboy]

Well it’s easily fixed. Give us an average percentage wise that have died in nursing homes over the last 10 years and compare to this year. That’s gives you a pretty good idea. If it’s one extra a week then we need to decide if all this is worth it for that. If it’s a big number then it is most likely worth it.

This is not mowing lawns P66, this is medical procedure, why do people think complex issues are simple? What medical or coronerary experience do you posses?

it is like when people with no idea talk about Finance to me and say such and such is simple when they have no idea of the complexity.

Are you people really doubting that people are dying from this pandemic? So if they are not, what is the end game here? To crash the economy? To what end?
The is the height of tinfoil ridiculousness.

 

[Joffaboy]

I don't know what to believe anymore. I'm sure we are being lied to. And I still reckon it's not as serious as the government has made it out to be.


Prove an assumption?

So what is the end game? Use your logic. Every country in the world decided to plunge the world economy into its worst crisis in a 100 years for the lols?

You weren't lied to by the CDC, but it was not the full story. it is a cherry picked stat that doesn't give the full picture.

As for proving an assumption, I read it as you were stating 'they' were fudging the numbers of covid related deaths. I would like to see the evidence they were fudged is all.

All I have heard is covid related. If you want to be completely pedantic nobody has died from covid because every single death is the result of your heart stopping, i.e a heart attack. It is so silly to me.

 

[Stewart66]

99% are not from hotel quarantine. 65% of cases are from healthcare workers and aged care. Why he hasn't locked down certain sections of Victoria or areas of Victoria is the only thing I am annoyed about. Our entire state does not need to be in stage 4 lockdown because of a small minority who are making up the majority of cases.

This, coupled with the fact it's now proven that they have fudged the numbers (for political gain I assume) is sick. This isn't Andrews I'm talking about it's the entire country. My suburb has 2 active cases. Why we are in S4 lockdown is beyond me. Lockdown those that need it. Rest can move freely between selected suburbs if they wish, IMO.

When you look at what the CDC issued out last week you'd probably think differently about the seriousness of this virus if you haven't thought differently about it already. 6% of the deaths in America were 100% COVID related. They've been reporting that anyone that dies that has COVID died from COVID. 94% of the time this is not the case and the death was mainly due to other factors. I'm starting to question why not only our country but most of the world is still under some sort of lockdown rules given these figures. You'd assume the percentages would be similar all over the world.


I've never trusted this current government. I hope that people finally start to question new policies the Liberals introduce. From their handling of the bushfire crisis, to their many blunders when it comes to data security, to completely ruining our economy. I cannot wait for the day they are replaced. Preferably by Labor. They are completely incompetent, it's a shame so many just believe whatever the Murdoch press spits out.

It's pleasing to see Andrews get so much support from Victorians in the face of so much Liberal backlash. It's a hard thing to manage perfectly given we've never faced it before but he has done a great job. He has definitely led and led well.

I thought we were all Melburnians according to Scotty .

What happened to 'we are all Melburnians now'?

Ignoring the fact that supressing the virus in Victoria is in the interests of all Australians, the Prime Minister is sniping from the sidelines, fuelling division and community angst.

www.theage.com.au

 

[George]

So what is the end game? Use your logic. Every country in the world decided to plunge the world economy into its worst crisis in a 100 years for the lols?

You weren't lied to by the CDC, but it was not the full story. it is a cherry picked stat that doesn't give the full picture.

As for proving an assumption, I read it as you were stating 'they' were fudging the numbers of covid related deaths. I would like to see the evidence they were fudged is all.

All I have heard is covid related. If you want to be completely pedantic nobody has died from covid because every single death is the result of your heart stopping, i.e a heart attack. It is so silly to me.

It's so silly to you because you think people actually think nobody has died from COVID.

So you don't want to even question why we are in the situation we're in? You will just trust whatever government tells you? It's a good thing this kind of thinking is dying away. If we let government dictate to us what we can and can't do we are truly stuffed. Like blindly downloading an intrusive app because the government said it will stop the spread of the virus. Or how they leaked private medical records of thousands of people. Or how they want to remove independent news from social media. Or how they are land clearing for their own financial gain at the expense of endangered wildlife. Or how they plunged this nation into the most debt it has ever been in pre COVID. They've done enough over a long enough period of time for people to stop and think/question it.

Are you people really doubting that people are dying from this pandemic? So if they are not, what is the end game here? To crash the economy? To what end?
The is the height of tinfoil ridiculousness.

Who said anyone doubted people were dying from it. I said 6% of the deaths in America have been solely from COVID. The other 94% had COVID but died from other causes.

It's a sample size of 330 million people so it's probably safe to assume the percentages are similar in our country, if not even lower than that given we locked down quicker and harder than they did.

You say questioning what is going on is tinfoil ridiculousness but the same can be said of those who just blindly believe whatever their government tells them. That is ridiculous too. I think at this point people are well within their right to question the severity of the virus and why entire states and countries need to be closed down for an entire year because two sections of our society are falling ill.

I thought we were all Melburnians according to Scotty .

What happened to 'we are all Melburnians now'?

Ignoring the fact that supressing the virus in Victoria is in the interests of all Australians, the Prime Minister is sniping from the sidelines, fuelling division and community angst.

www.theage.com.au

Hear absolutely nothing from them about the all conquering app anymore. Wonder why. Out of sight out of mind.

Stewart66 it should read "We are all Melburnians if it's good for a vote"

 

[Stewart66]

Hear absolutely nothing from them about the all conquering app anymore. Wonder why. Out of sight out of mind.

Don‘t think the last 6 years have been Oz‘s greatest , going to leave it there.

Here’s A Record Of The Coalition's Environmental Vandalism. No Wonder They Gag Debate. - Situation Theatre

Last night the Morrison Government rushed reheated Abbot-era environmental legislation through the House of Representatives without debate . The bill would yet again undermine protections and fail to deliver the national standards recommended by the recent federal environment law review. It’s j

situationtheatre.com

 

[George]

Don‘t think the last 6 years have been Oz‘s greatest , going to leave it there.

Here’s A Record Of The Coalition's Environmental Vandalism. No Wonder They Gag Debate. - Situation Theatre

Last night the Morrison Government rushed reheated Abbot-era environmental legislation through the House of Representatives without debate . The bill would yet again undermine protections and fail to deliver the national standards recommended by the recent federal environment law review. It’s j

situationtheatre.com

Where our economy was on a global scale in 2012 compared to now is just sad.


Anyway I will do the same, going to leave COVID talk and politics alone. Been done to death, not going to change anyones mind unfortunately.

Plus I've been up since 1am and going off for a midday nap. Joys of working from home

 

[SaintsSeptember]

It's so silly to you because you think people actually think nobody has died from COVID.

So you don't want to even question why we are in the situation we're in? You will just trust whatever government tells you? It's a good thing this kind of thinking is dying away. If we let government dictate to us what we can and can't do we are truly stuffed. Like blindly downloading an intrusive app because the government said it will stop the spread of the virus. Or how they leaked private medical records of thousands of people. Or how they want to remove independent news from social media. Or how they are land clearing for their own financial gain at the expense of endangered wildlife. Or how they plunged this nation into the most debt it has ever been in pre COVID. They've done enough over a long enough period of time for people to stop and think instead of being sheep and lambasting anyone who disagree with them.


Who said anyone doubted people were dying from it. I said 6% of the deaths in America have been solely from COVID. The other 94% had COVID but died from other causes.

It's a sample size of 330 million people so it's probably safe to assume the percentages are similar in our country, if not even lower than that given we locked down quicker and harder than they did.

You say questioning what is going on is tinfoil ridiculousness but the same can be said of those who just blindly believe whatever their government tells them. That is ridiculous too. I think at this point people are well within their right to question the severity of the virus and why entire states and countries need to be closed down for an entire year because two sections of our society are falling ill.

Freedom protests make it worse...not better though.

 

[George]

Freedom protests make it worse...not better though.

Agree, better ways to voice displeasure IMO.

 

[jwikked]

Hear absolutely nothing from them about the all conquering app anymore. Wonder why. Out of sight out of mind.

They should utilize Apples version. They won’t for obvious reasons.

 

[George]

They should utilize Apples version. They won’t for obvious reasons.

It's all politics they couldn't give a s**t about anybody else.

 

[plugger66]

This is not mowing lawns P66, this is medical procedure, why do people think complex issues are simple? What medical or coronerary experience do you posses?

it is like when people with no idea talk about Finance to me and say such and such is simple when they have no idea of the complexity.

Are you people really doubting that people are dying from this pandemic? So if they are not, what is the end game here? To crash the economy? To what end?
The is the height of tinfoil ridiculousness.

No I’ve not once said people aren’t dying because of it. Not once but Andrews was asked a specific question about dying with COVID or because of it. He then said I’m not responding to anything kennett thinks. Why not just answer the question. Depending on which side you are on you can find doctors saying deaths are much more than previous years or basically the same. And depending which side you are you are on you find doctors saying they are dying because of COVID or with COVID. This isn’t tin foil hat stuff these are doctors more involved than any of us. By the way I’m talking nursing homes. We have a big enough sample size so just release figures. Let us all see. I’ve been on the covid thing being so much more dangerous than the flu but I’ve also been big on the deliberate scare tactics

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

Don‘t think the last 6 years have been Oz‘s greatest , going to leave it there.

Here’s A Record Of The Coalition's Environmental Vandalism. No Wonder They Gag Debate. - Situation Theatre

Last night the Morrison Government rushed reheated Abbot-era environmental legislation through the House of Representatives without debate . The bill would yet again undermine protections and fail to deliver the national standards recommended by the recent federal environment law review. It’s j

situationtheatre.com

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

Hear absolutely nothing from them about the all conquering app anymore. Wonder why. Out of sight out of mind.

Because the piublic found out it was developed by someone with close liberal party ties and it was expensive for the taxpayer but cheaply developed so someone can make a profit.

Don‘t think the last 6 years have been Oz‘s greatest , going to leave it there.

Here’s A Record Of The Coalition's Environmental Vandalism. No Wonder They Gag Debate. - Situation Theatre

Last night the Morrison Government rushed reheated Abbot-era environmental legislation through the House of Representatives without debate . The bill would yet again undermine protections and fail to deliver the national standards recommended by the recent federal environment law review. It’s j

situationtheatre.com

Last 6 years Australia has bungled the NBN, blown millions on wasted crap, Abbott sold of the tech for the tesla battery on the cheap, land clearing on par with the Congo and Brazil, genocide of native animals for a quick buck, mass courrption.

Under the last 6 years of the libs Australia is now a second world country with the courrption of a third world country.

 

[Joffaboy]

It's so silly to you because you think people actually think nobody has died from COVID.

So you don't want to even question why we are in the situation we're in? You will just trust whatever government tells you? It's a good thing this kind of thinking is dying away. If we let government dictate to us what we can and can't do we are truly stuffed. Like blindly downloading an intrusive app because the government said it will stop the spread of the virus. Or how they leaked private medical records of thousands of people. Or how they want to remove independent news from social media. Or how they are land clearing for their own financial gain at the expense of endangered wildlife. Or how they plunged this nation into the most debt it has ever been in pre COVID. They've done enough over a long enough period of time for people to stop and think/question it.


Who said anyone doubted people were dying from it. I said 6% of the deaths in America have been solely from COVID. The other 94% had COVID but died from other causes.

It's a sample size of 330 million people so it's probably safe to assume the percentages are similar in our country, if not even lower than that given we locked down quicker and harder than they did.

You say questioning what is going on is tinfoil ridiculousness but the same can be said of those who just blindly believe whatever their government tells them. That is ridiculous too. I think at this point people are well within their right to question the severity of the virus and why entire states and countries need to be closed down for an entire year because two sections of our society are falling ill.


Hear absolutely nothing from them about the all conquering app anymore. Wonder why. Out of sight out of mind.

Stewart66 it should read "We are all Melburnians if it's good for a vote"

Won't respond to this in detail, but, deliberately or not,you completely and utterly misunderstand what i was saying.

 

[StCicatriz]

Like blindly downloading an intrusive app

lol. this is just so damn wrong.

also might want to read about the issues the Vic Government had with contact tracing compared to NSW and QLD, one of the key contributing factors to the outbreak you are experiencing now.

one of the key issues we have in society now is people thinking they are smarter/more informed/know better than people who are well versed in that area. it's birthed crazy talk like Qanon. where people think they can be more informed than people who have studied that field for a minimum of 4 years and then worked thousands of hours in it.

 

[Joffaboy]

No I’ve not once said people aren’t dying because of it. Not once but Andrews was asked a specific question about dying with COVID or because of it. He then said I’m not responding to anything kennett thinks. Why not just answer the question. Depending on which side you are on you can find doctors saying deaths are much more than previous years or basically the same. And depending which side you are you are on you find doctors saying they are dying because of COVID or with COVID. This isn’t tin foil hat stuff these are doctors more involved than any of us. By the way I’m talking nursing homes. We have a big enough sample size so just release figures. Let us all see. I’ve been on the covid thing being so much more dangerous than the flu but I’ve also been big on the deliberate scare tactics

Why should he answer Kennett. Kennett is some loudmouth has been who has no medical expertise either. Just another sniping Liberal undermining confidence.
Why should our elected Premier give some right wing ratbag any oxygen? Stuff Kennett and the horse he rode in on.

And it is semantic's about dying because of or with Covid. Most who die have pre existing conditions and if they get it it exacerbates the problem and kills them. Point is if they didn't get it, they may have lived longer.

You do know it is a crime to incorrectly record the cause of death on a death certificate? And what is the point of fudging figures? To what end? So the government can keep us in lockdown? To destroy the economy? Why would they want either? Honestly I don't understand these supposed ulterior motives.

 

[Joffaboy]

lol. this is just so damn wrong.

also might want to read about the issues the Vic Government had with contact tracing compared to NSW and QLD, one of the key contributing factors to the outbreak you are experiencing now.

Completely debunked by Norman Swan. Vic has over 2500 contact tracers compared to NSW under 500. If they had the same numbers as us they would have been totally swamped.

Total Liberal rubbish from the PM.

 

[StCicatriz]

Completely debunked by Norman Swan. Vic has over 2500 contact tracers compared to NSW under 500. If they had the same numbers as us they would have been totally swamped.

Total Liberal rubbish from the PM.

the issue is in their effectiveness isn't it? atleast that is what i read. which meant the Vic gov still couldn't find a way to effectively use the Covid App.

i am not talking about where you are now. i am referring to the initial outbreak and how effective contact tracing was.

 

[Stewart66]

Agree, better ways to voice displeasure IMO.

Unfortunately its too late, pretty simple process , will continue until anarchy.

Betrayed by politicians and the media, Assange case exposes ludicrous justice

Julian Assange continues to suffer under farcical charges and a predatory system, and the media chooses to looks the other way.

www.crikey.com.au

.

We argue for our free press then control the message ....anti China great , embarrassing
double standards when it’s other countries.


Get the popcorn out post USA elections either way never seen a World more divisive.

Jeff Daniels (written by Aaron Sorkin): 'America is not the greatest country in the world anymore', The Newsroom - 2012 — Speakola

Release date: 24 June 2012, HBO Will It's not the greatest country in the world, professor, that's my answer. Moderator [pause] You're saying— Will Yes. Moderator Let's talk about— Will Fine. [to the liberal panelist] Sharon, the NEA is a loser. Yeah, it accounts

speakola.com

.

 

[plugger66]

Why should he answer Kennett. Kennett is some loudmouth has been who has no medical expertise either. Just another sniping Liberal undermining confidence.
Why should our elected Premier give some right wing ratbag any oxygen? Stuff Kennett and the horse he rode in on.

And it is semantic's about dying because of or with Covid. Most who die have pre existing conditions and if they get it it exacerbates the problem and kills them. Point is if they didn't get it, they may have lived longer.

You do know it is a crime to incorrectly record the cause of death on a death certificate? And what is the point of fudging figures? To what end? So the government can keep us in lockdown? To destroy the economy? Why would they want either? Honestly I don't understand these supposed ulterior motives.

He doesn’t have to answer Kennett but he has to answer to us. It was a simple statement and instead of calling it bullshit he said I don’t respond to that person. Surely he just says it’s untrue and has figures to prove it. But no like any politician just deflects just as you have done by your response. And who knows if they are dying quicker with COVID. No one is giving us figures to say that. They could simply be dying with COVID. As for you not understanding well I don’t understand why doctors have completely different points of view on this virus but they do. It’s pretty easy to fix. Give us figures to show how many more are dying because of COVID. It wouldn’t be hard to find nursing home deaths over the last few years and compare them to now. I have no doubt scare tactics are part of the plan. The problem is more and more people care less and less about the virus. You can only scare people for so long. If stage 3 isn’t lifted before the grand final all that will happen is thousands if not hundred of thousands will break the law.

my dad is 83 and he will die if he gets COVID. That is 100% certain but he would rather people come visit him than never see those people again.

by the way I still say the virus is very dangerous for some but doing all this lockdown stuff is also very dangerous for some. Maybe suicides haven’t increased yet but they certainly may

 

[George]

Because the piublic found out it was developed by someone with close liberal party ties and it was expensive for the taxpayer but cheaply developed so someone can make a profit.


Last 6 years Australia has bungled the NBN, blown millions on wasted crap, Abbott sold of the tech for the tesla battery on the cheap, land clearing on par with the Congo and Brazil, genocide of native animals for a quick buck, mass courrption.

Under the last 6 years of the libs Australia is now a second world country with the courrption of a third world country.

Completely spot on, have to be in denial these days to think otherwise. Haven't seen a single person dispute any of what you've said either, just the honest truth. They have ruined this country.

Won't respond to this in detail, but, deliberately or not,you completely and utterly misunderstand what i was saying.

Nope people have every right to question, illegal to put wrong cause of death but also illegal to disallow protest until government makes a new rule to take care of that. Point being they will do whatever they want to do, naive to think these people are doing the best by us in year 2020. Or at the very least to take them on their word all the time.

lol. this is just so damn wrong.

also might want to read about the issues the Vic Government had with contact tracing compared to NSW and QLD, one of the key contributing factors to the outbreak you are experiencing now.

one of the key issues we have in society now is people thinking they are smarter/more informed/know better than people who are well versed in that area. it's birthed crazy talk like Qanon. where people think they can be more informed than people who have studied that field for a minimum of 4 years and then worked thousands of hours in it.

Haha why still defend it, said it from the start that it would be a disaster, got roasted on here because apparently I wasn't serious about helping save lives. Spin. Now look. Just add it to the very long list of Liberal stuff ups. Not like I'm a genius either, it was obvious it wouldn't work.

You do know it is a crime to incorrectly record the cause of death on a death certificate? And what is the point of fudging figures? To what end? So the government can keep us in lockdown? To destroy the economy? Why would they want either? Honestly I don't understand these supposed ulterior motives.

I was like you then I thought why does a country of 25 million people that has 2000 active cases still think keeping us locked in our homes and destroying small business is a good idea? Want to be very clear here too. I am not saying it definitely IS for different motives all I am saying is that it is time to question it. There's a very large discrepency IMO from the number of cases we have to the governments response. You'd think we'd be recording tens of thousands of cases a day. 65% of cases are coming from two sections of society yet the entire state has to remain in lockdown. QLD, WA, SA, NSW with almost no cases between them yet still refuse to open borders. It is counter intuitive. It cannot be because they have our best interests at heart because if they did they would've taken into account mental health and suicide which people are dying from far more than COVID.

I also wonder why this country is trying to ban independent news from social media. Makes me wonder why they are against what is essentially free speech. You could say it's to control the narrative of what we are fed from a media that are in bed with the current government. Murdoch runs this country as much as Morrison. I wonder why the government does these things.

Perhaps they aren't all that they seem, Joffa.

Unfortunately its too late, pretty simple process , will continue until anarchy.

Betrayed by politicians and the media, Assange case exposes ludicrous justice

Julian Assange continues to suffer under farcical charges and a predatory system, and the media chooses to looks the other way.

www.crikey.com.au

.

We argue for our free press then control the message ....anti China great , embarrassing
double standards when it’s other countries.


Get the popcorn out post USA elections either way never seen a World more divisive.

Jeff Daniels (written by Aaron Sorkin): 'America is not the greatest country in the world anymore', The Newsroom - 2012 — Speakola

Release date: 24 June 2012, HBO Will It's not the greatest country in the world, professor, that's my answer. Moderator [pause] You're saying— Will Yes. Moderator Let's talk about— Will Fine. [to the liberal panelist] Sharon, the NEA is a loser. Yeah, it accounts

speakola.com

.

100% spot on my friend. It is a complete shambles.

 

[George]

View attachment 956060

Missed this. Beautiful summary of complete incompetence haha

 

[George]

Kind of unrelated but if you live more than 5k from someone but are their nominated visitor, can you still go?